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Reply #60 posted 04/14/19 7:08pm

ChocolateBox31
21

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Mikado said:

SoulAlive said:

when do you think that Prince should have stopped? hmmm

It feels weird to delineate a specific album, but, gun to my head, probably The Gold Experience.

So Prince, whom fought 4 his first record deal & got it, fought 4 a movie deal & got it, fought 4 freedom from his WB contract & got it, fought 4 his masters & got them.Gets a curable illness & says 2 himself ok, I'm done. "Life is a Box Of Chocolates"
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Reply #61 posted 04/14/19 7:56pm

Mikado

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Mikado said:

SoulAlive said: It feels weird to delineate a specific album, but, gun to my head, probably The Gold Experience.


Nah, I definitely said that.

A certain kind of mellow.
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Reply #62 posted 04/14/19 9:05pm

PeteSilas

ChocolateBox3121 said:



Mikado said:


SoulAlive said:



when do you think that Prince should have stopped? hmmm



It feels weird to delineate a specific album, but, gun to my head, probably The Gold Experience.



Not for me. I'd want the other album's
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Reply #63 posted 04/14/19 10:30pm

ChocolateBox31
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Mikado said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:


Nah, I definitely said that.

That's such a disrespectful & an insult thing to say toward Prince's(r.i.p.) legacy. Especially since he left such a wide body of work. Plus was constantly recording & releasing new music up until the day he transitioned. Only for the simple reason of being very prolific. disbelief

So Prince, whom fought 4 his first record deal & got it, fought 4 a movie deal & got it, fought 4 freedom from his WB contract & got it, fought 4 his masters & got them.Gets a curable illness & says 2 himself ok, I'm done. "Life is a Box Of Chocolates"
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Reply #64 posted 04/14/19 10:41pm

databank

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MickyDolenz said:



databank said:


Very strange statement from an artist's perpective.


Very, very strange eek



What's strange about an act not putting out records? Many singers/bands don't release a lot of material later in life, even if they still perform in concert. Such as Little Richard, Chubby Checker, Billy Joel, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Lionel Richie, Rolling Stones, Phil Collins, Def Leppard, Tracy Chapman, etc. Some by choice, others might not have a record deal. If they're not going to sell enough to make a profit, it doesn't make a lot of sense financially to spend money on studio time or a label to press LPs/CDs & promote them. Otherwise, artists will be in the hole with their label and have to owe money to the label. Many people go to concerts of veteran acts to hear their hits anyway, not new stuff. In the 1960s, it was common for acts to release 2 or even 3 albums a year, and in some cases non-album singles. That's what the labels required at the time.


This has nothing to do with what I wrote or the post I was reacting to.
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Reply #65 posted 04/14/19 10:43pm

databank

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Mikado said:



ChocolateBox3121 said:




Mikado said:


SoulAlive said: It feels weird to delineate a specific album, but, gun to my head, probably The Gold Experience.




Nah, I definitely said that.


Yes, but it's absurd. Prince's career ending in 1995 would have been a tragedy for many of us.
[Edited 4/14/19 22:43pm]
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Reply #66 posted 04/14/19 11:12pm

PeteSilas

databank said:

MickyDolenz said:

What's strange about an act not putting out records? Many singers/bands don't release a lot of material later in life, even if they still perform in concert. Such as Little Richard, Chubby Checker, Billy Joel, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Lionel Richie, Rolling Stones, Phil Collins, Def Leppard, Tracy Chapman, etc. Some by choice, others might not have a record deal. If they're not going to sell enough to make a profit, it doesn't make a lot of sense financially to spend money on studio time or a label to press LPs/CDs & promote them. Otherwise, artists will be in the hole with their label and have to owe money to the label. Many people go to concerts of veteran acts to hear their hits anyway, not new stuff. In the 1960s, it was common for acts to release 2 or even 3 albums a year, and in some cases non-album singles. That's what the labels required at the time.

This has nothing to do with what I wrote or the post I was reacting to.

many legends do put out new music but the times are so different that they don't sell, little richard put out several albums after his prime , many got great reviews but I can't even find some of his later ones anywhere, especially one of my fave songs of his "no place like home" a country flavored song that he played a lot around 89. I have to think that people get lazy, especially after making a boatload of money, lionel never did a good album after can't slow down, he dissapeared from the studio for years, Prince was a special case, he never listened to all you fuckers who rubbed your palms together in anticipation of ripping apart his next release, he just kept going.

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Reply #67 posted 04/14/19 11:13pm

PeteSilas

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Mikado said:


Nah, I definitely said that.

That's such a disrespectful & an insult thing to say toward Prince's(r.i.p.) legacy. Especially since he left such a wide body of work. Plus was constantly recording & releasing new music up until the day he transitioned. Only for the simple reason of being very prolific. disbelief

fuck em, let them say that, they don't have to listen. I enjoy music from all eras of the man's career. Cant' say the same for stevie's "skeletons" or whatever it was.

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Reply #68 posted 04/14/19 11:19pm

MickyDolenz

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PeteSilas said:

lionel never did a good album after can't slow down, he dissapeared from the studio for years,

Lionel Richie had vocal problems in the later 1980s and couldn't sing. He also wanted to spend the time with his father who was dying. Lionel later had an operation for polyps.

[Edited 4/14/19 23:20pm]

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #69 posted 04/14/19 11:26pm

MickyDolenz

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ChocolateBox3121 said:

Plus was constantly recording & releasing new music up until the day he transitioned. Only for the simple reason of being very prolific.

That does not mean anybody has to buy his records or like his music.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #70 posted 04/14/19 11:33pm

PeteSilas

MickyDolenz said:

PeteSilas said:

lionel never did a good album after can't slow down, he dissapeared from the studio for years,

Lionel Richie had vocal problems in the later 1980s and couldn't sing. He also wanted to spend the time with his father who was dying. Lionel later had an operation for polyps.

[Edited 4/14/19 23:20pm]

i know about the family issue, but compared to prince who went through losing family, losing trust, losing fans, he just kept right on going. Lionel seemed to have gotten lazy, when people make excuses like that it usually just means they got lazy.

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Reply #71 posted 04/14/19 11:34pm

Mikado

databank said:

Mikado said:


Nah, I definitely said that.

Yes, but it's absurd. Prince's career ending in 1995 would have been a tragedy for many of us. [Edited 4/14/19 22:43pm]


Thankfully it's just a hypothetical on an internet forum. My copies of The Rainbow Children and 3121 didn't dissapear into the ether with a post.

But in all seriousness, I can't think of anything less likely than a world where Prince stopped releasing new music after TGE. It would have required the kind of commercial sensibility that would have rendered some of his greatest projects defunct.

[Edited 4/14/19 23:41pm]

A certain kind of mellow.
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Reply #72 posted 04/14/19 11:35pm

PeteSilas

Mikado said:

databank said:

Mikado said: Yes, but it's absurd. Prince's career ending in 1995 would have been a tragedy for many of us. [Edited 4/14/19 22:43pm]


Thankfully it's just a hypothetical on an internet forum. My copies of The Rainbow Children and 3121 didn't dissapear into the ether with a post.

or for me, the rest of the catalogue. I don't pay attention to those guys. I like what I like, not everything but still a lot of it.

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Reply #73 posted 04/14/19 11:50pm

MickyDolenz

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PeteSilas said:

i know about the family issue, but compared to prince who went through losing family, losing trust, losing fans, he just kept right on going. Lionel seemed to have gotten lazy, when people make excuses like that it usually just means they got lazy.

Lionel is mainly a Top 40 chart artist, like Michael Jackson or Madonna. So if pop radio is less likely to play his music, what would be the point of him putting out a record? In the 1990s hip hop & New Jack Swing made singers like Lionel, Luther Vandross, & Freddie Jackson obsolete. He put out albums in the 1990s, but Lionel didn't realy fit in music or image wise with acts like Jodeci, Aaliyah, Bell Biv DeVoe, Color Me Badd, TLC, etc who were getting the R&B airplay in the 1990s. He didn't put rappers on his songs like Mariah Carey. He also didn't have the dance music/house sounds that was popular on Top 40 radio like Crystal Waters, Ace Of Base, C+C Music Factory, Technotronic, Betty Boo, etc. Nor was Lionel grunge. At best he could have still gotten the adult contemporary audience of the era. Worked for Eric Clapton & Rod Stewart.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #74 posted 04/15/19 12:11am

PeteSilas

MickyDolenz said:

PeteSilas said:

i know about the family issue, but compared to prince who went through losing family, losing trust, losing fans, he just kept right on going. Lionel seemed to have gotten lazy, when people make excuses like that it usually just means they got lazy.

Lionel is mainly a Top 40 chart artist, like Michael Jackson or Madonna. So if pop radio is less likely to play his music, what would be the point of him putting out a record? In the 1990s hip hop & New Jack Swing made singers like Lionel, Luther Vandross, & Freddie Jackson obsolete. He put out albums in the 1990s, but Lionel didn't realy fit in music or image wise with acts like Jodeci, Aaliyah, Bell Biv DeVoe, Color Me Badd, TLC, etc who were getting the R&B airplay in the 1990s. He didn't put rappers on his songs like Mariah Carey. He also didn't have the dance music/house sounds that was popular on Top 40 radio like Crystal Waters, Ace Of Base, C+C Music Factory, Technotronic, Betty Boo, etc. Nor was Lionel grunge. At best he could have still gotten the adult contemporary audience of the era. Worked for Eric Clapton & Rod Stewart.

compared to the phenomenal run of great ballads he had with the commodores and on his solo albums, dancing on the ceiling was a big step down. not easy to keep the muse going for anyone especially when you start getting the distractions of excess money, women and substances. remember when lionel's wife beat his ass?

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Reply #75 posted 04/15/19 12:26am

NorthC

databank said:

MickyDolenz said:



databank said:


Very strange statement from an artist's perpective.


Very, very strange eek



What's strange about an act not putting out records? Many singers/bands don't release a lot of material later in life, even if they still perform in concert. Such as Little Richard, Chubby Checker, Billy Joel, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, Lionel Richie, Rolling Stones, Phil Collins, Def Leppard, Tracy Chapman, etc. Some by choice, others might not have a record deal. If they're not going to sell enough to make a profit, it doesn't make a lot of sense financially to spend money on studio time or a label to press LPs/CDs & promote them. Otherwise, artists will be in the hole with their label and have to owe money to the label. Many people go to concerts of veteran acts to hear their hits anyway, not new stuff. In the 1960s, it was common for acts to release 2 or even 3 albums a year, and in some cases non-album singles. That's what the labels required at the time.


This has nothing to do with what I wrote or the post I was reacting to.

Actually, it does. Micky listed a whole lot of reasons why a musician would stop recording. Maybe inspiration is gone, you don't feel the need to prove yourself anymore... Of course there's also plenty of older acts who keep recording: Joe Jackson, Neil Young, Van Morrison are still making albums. So it depends on how creative people still are when they grow older. Some want to retire, other still feel the fire burning.
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Reply #76 posted 04/15/19 3:28am

databank

avatar

NorthC said:

databank said:
This has nothing to do with what I wrote or the post I was reacting to.
Actually, it does. Micky listed a whole lot of reasons why a musician would stop recording. Maybe inspiration is gone, you don't feel the need to prove yourself anymore... Of course there's also plenty of older acts who keep recording: Joe Jackson, Neil Young, Van Morrison are still making albums. So it depends on how creative people still are when they grow older. Some want to retire, other still feel the fire burning.

This has nothing to do with the post I was reacting to. I'm sorry, it does not. I replied to a very specific thing.

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Reply #77 posted 04/15/19 3:29am

databank

avatar

Mikado said:

databank said:

Very strange statement from an artist's perpective.

Very, very strange eek


Eh, it's why Billy Joel stopped making new albums after River of Dreams.

eek

Do have a quote from him explaining him? I'd be curious to hear it in his own words.

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Reply #78 posted 04/15/19 4:58am

Mikado

databank said:



Mikado said:




databank said:



Very strange statement from an artist's perpective.


Very, very strange eek





Eh, it's why Billy Joel stopped making new albums after River of Dreams.



eek


Do have a quote from him explaining him? I'd be curious to hear it in his own words.



Sure.

“Some people think it’s because I’m lazy or I’m just being contrary," he said. "But, no, I think it’s just -- I’ve had my say. If I put out an album now, it would probably sell pretty well, because of who I am, but that’s no reason to do it. I’d want it to be good."

"I’ve seen artists on that treadmill, putting out albums year after year, and the albums get worse and worse, less and less interesting, and it’s, like, 'Maybe you should stop,'" he continued.

https://abcnews.go.com/En...d=26343381
A certain kind of mellow.
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Reply #79 posted 04/15/19 5:09am

databank

avatar

Mikado said:

databank said:

eek

Do have a quote from him explaining him? I'd be curious to hear it in his own words.

Sure. “Some people think it’s because I’m lazy or I’m just being contrary," he said. "But, no, I think it’s just -- I’ve had my say. If I put out an album now, it would probably sell pretty well, because of who I am, but that’s no reason to do it. I’d want it to be good." "I’ve seen artists on that treadmill, putting out albums year after year, and the albums get worse and worse, less and less interesting, and it’s, like, 'Maybe you should stop,'" he continued. https://abcnews.go.com/En...d=26343381

Thx hug

Remarkably humble, but a rare way of thinking among artists IMO.

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Reply #80 posted 04/15/19 5:57am

MickyDolenz

avatar

PeteSilas said:

dancing on the ceiling was a big step down.

How? The album sold multi-platinum, and the Dancing On The Ceiling song made it to #2 on the Hot 100 and #6 on the R&B chart. Deep River Woman even reached the Top 10 on the country charts, which was rare for any black singer not named Charley Pride. A few of the other songs were big hits too like Say You Say Me which was the theme song for a movie. If his goal was to have hits and sell a lot, then it was a success. I like the album. Like I mentioned, by the time Lionel came back in the 1990s, his style was not in anymore. The popularity of Billy Ocean had waned by the 1990s too.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #81 posted 04/15/19 6:01am

ChocolateBox31
21

avatar

PeteSilas said:

databank said:

MickyDolenz said: This has nothing to do with what I wrote or the post I was reacting to.

many legends do put out new music but the times are so different that they don't sell, little richard put out several albums after his prime , many got great reviews but I can't even find some of his later ones anywhere, especially one of my fave songs of his "no place like home" a country flavored song that he played a lot around 89. I have to think that people get lazy, especially after making a boatload of money, lionel never did a good album after can't slow down, he dissapeared from the studio for years, Prince was a special case, he never listened to all you fuckers who rubbed your palms together in anticipation of ripping apart his next release, he just kept going.

Lil Richard(although I did end up working with him once years after) drove past me going 100 mph! The only reason I caught up with him is because a red light caught him. It was no surprise to me, when not long after, he got into a bad car accident and smashed into a pole. He was a fearless driver.

So Prince, whom fought 4 his first record deal & got it, fought 4 a movie deal & got it, fought 4 freedom from his WB contract & got it, fought 4 his masters & got them.Gets a curable illness & says 2 himself ok, I'm done. "Life is a Box Of Chocolates"
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Reply #82 posted 04/15/19 6:05am

Mikado

databank said:



Mikado said:


databank said:


eek


Do have a quote from him explaining him? I'd be curious to hear it in his own words.



Sure. “Some people think it’s because I’m lazy or I’m just being contrary," he said. "But, no, I think it’s just -- I’ve had my say. If I put out an album now, it would probably sell pretty well, because of who I am, but that’s no reason to do it. I’d want it to be good." "I’ve seen artists on that treadmill, putting out albums year after year, and the albums get worse and worse, less and less interesting, and it’s, like, 'Maybe you should stop,'" he continued. https://abcnews.go.com/En...d=26343381

Thx hug


Remarkably humble, but a rare way of thinking among artists IMO.



Indeed. Never was a huge fan of his stuff beyond the Hits, but Billy Joel seems like a pretty intelligent guy.
A certain kind of mellow.
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Reply #83 posted 04/15/19 6:07am

ChocolateBox31
21

avatar

MickyDolenz said:

PeteSilas said:

lionel never did a good album after can't slow down, he dissapeared from the studio for years,

Lionel Richie had vocal problems in the later 1980s and couldn't sing. He also wanted to spend the time with his father who was dying. Lionel later had an operation for polyps.

[Edited 4/14/19 23:20pm]

I ran into Lionel Richie once in my doctors office building after hours. He thought he was going to sneak in unnoticed. but I caught him. lol

So Prince, whom fought 4 his first record deal & got it, fought 4 a movie deal & got it, fought 4 freedom from his WB contract & got it, fought 4 his masters & got them.Gets a curable illness & says 2 himself ok, I'm done. "Life is a Box Of Chocolates"
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Reply #84 posted 04/15/19 6:10am

Mikado

MickyDolenz said:



PeteSilas said:


dancing on the ceiling was a big step down.



How? The album sold multi-platinum, and the Dancing On The Ceiling song made it to #2 on the Hot 100 and #6 on the R&B chart. Deep River Woman even reached the Top 10 on the country charts, which was rare for any black singer not named Charley Pride. A few of the other songs were big hits too like Say You Say Me which was the theme song for a movie. If his goal was to have hits and sell a lot, then it was a success. I like the album. Like I mentioned, by the time Lionel came back in the 1990s, his style was not in anymore. The popularity of Billy Ocean had waned by the 1990s too.



Yeah, New Jack Swing and Hip-hop killed off guys like Lionel and Billy Ocean. There just wasn't a market for their brand of R&B flavored pop music. They both recognized it and just stopped releasing new music.
A certain kind of mellow.
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Reply #85 posted 04/15/19 6:12am

MickyDolenz

avatar

PeteSilas said:

remember when lionel's wife beat his ass?

What does that have to do with him doing music? Vince Neil had a car wreck that killed drummer Razzle. Yet Mötley Crüe continued to put out records. Snoop Dogg was in a murder trial and still released records. Elvis Presley was drafted in the army, but he recorded enough material for RCA to release while he was in. Drugs have never stopped anyone from doing music either. Look at all of the rock, country, & jazz performers who did drugs and/or were alcoholics. So did many actors and even the people behind the scenes like record label CEOs. Drugs are even said to be a muse for music, like with psychedelic rock & stoner rock. It's doubtful that some later Beatle songs would have been created without drugs. Many songs from a lot of genres are about drinking or drugs or violence.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #86 posted 04/15/19 8:15am

PeteSilas

MickyDolenz said:



PeteSilas said:


remember when lionel's wife beat his ass?



What does that have to do with him doing music? Vince Neil had a car wreck that killed drummer Razzle. Yet Mötley Crüe continued to put out records. Snoop Dogg was in a murder trial and still released records. Elvis Presley was drafted in the army, but he recorded enough material for RCA to release while he was in. Drugs have never stopped anyone from doing music either. Look at all of the rock, country, & jazz performers who did drugs and/or were alcoholics. So did many actors and even the people behind the scenes like record label CEOs. Drugs are even said to be a muse for music, like with psychedelic rock & stoner rock. It's doubtful that some later Beatle songs would have been created without drugs. Many songs from a lot of genres are about drinking or drugs or violence.


Are you high young man
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Reply #87 posted 04/15/19 9:56am

MickyDolenz

avatar

Mikado said:

Yeah, New Jack Swing and Hip-hop killed off guys like Lionel and Billy Ocean. There just wasn't a market for their brand of R&B flavored pop music. They both recognized it and just stopped releasing new music.

Some veterans either released New Jack records (Michael Jackson, Boy George, Stevie Wonder, Daryl Hall, Gap Band, Sheena Easton, James Ingram, O'Jays, Morris Day, even The Rolling Stones had Teddy Riley do a remix) or house music (Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin, Madonna). Some sang hooks on rap songs (Daryl Hall, The Dramatics, The Temptations). Madonna did a remix with Tupac, that was never released. Unlike Lionel, whose music hadn't really changed that much when he came back, some of the ones doing New Jack Swing had gotten hits from them, especially Mike with Dangerous. The Commodores released this:


For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #88 posted 04/15/19 12:34pm

PeteSilas

ChocolateBox3121 said:

PeteSilas said:

many legends do put out new music but the times are so different that they don't sell, little richard put out several albums after his prime , many got great reviews but I can't even find some of his later ones anywhere, especially one of my fave songs of his "no place like home" a country flavored song that he played a lot around 89. I have to think that people get lazy, especially after making a boatload of money, lionel never did a good album after can't slow down, he dissapeared from the studio for years, Prince was a special case, he never listened to all you fuckers who rubbed your palms together in anticipation of ripping apart his next release, he just kept going.

Lil Richard(although I did end up working with him once years after) drove past me going 100 mph! The only reason I caught up with him is because a red light caught him. It was no surprise to me, when not long after, he got into a bad car accident and smashed into a pole. He was a fearless driver.

that's my idol, i love little richard. He's still kicking and although he looks like a different man, he gives interviews still. the injuries from that crash are probably why he's in a wheelchair today.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #89 posted 04/15/19 2:30pm

SoulAlive

MickyDolenz said:

PeteSilas said:

dancing on the ceiling was a big step down.

How? The album sold multi-platinum, and the Dancing On The Ceiling song made it to #2 on the Hot 100 and #6 on the R&B chart. Deep River Woman even reached the Top 10 on the country charts, which was rare for any black singer not named Charley Pride. A few of the other songs were big hits too like Say You Say Me which was the theme song for a movie. If his goal was to have hits and sell a lot, then it was a success. I like the album. Like I mentioned, by the time Lionel came back in the 1990s, his style was not in anymore. The popularity of Billy Ocean had waned by the 1990s too.

Lionel lost me with that horrible album biggrin the title track (and its video) was a total embarrassment.....that song is the most soulless thing he ever did.On sappy,syrupy songs like "Ballerina Girl" and "Say You,Say Me",Lionel was quickly becoming the black Barry Manilow.The one good track,"Love Will Conquer All",was a ripoff of his own superior "Love Will Find A Way".

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