independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > if prince DID release less in the 90s, would that have been a good thing?
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 10/25/20 1:16pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

if prince DID release less in the 90s, would that have been a good thing?

so (this is a spin off of the slave thread) the common criticism of prince is that he released too much, the label couldnt work it enough and exploit each release enough

and the public reached saturation point, they couldnt tell the difference between one big release and the next

but if he did release less albums, would that have created better, stronger, more inarguably excellent albums?

eg, an album in 92, from D&P and the symbol album sessions

an album in 94, from the come and gold sessions (come in gold, lets say)

would this have been a better strategy in the 90s?

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 10/25/20 1:48pm

jaawwnn

avatar

Nah, he was past his prime as a popstar, 10 years is long enough, frankly he should have stopped trying to have hits and released MORE!
"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 10/25/20 2:27pm

antonb

Not really, it is what it is. Like part of his journey to have done what he had done and released what he released. I remember this period very well because i didnt start being a hardcore fan till 89 onwards. And it was pretty tough to follow him at the time. But also you got some good material and The live tour of the new material to follow suit. He had much more exposure under warners bros though, and a much more structured career in that it was release a single , then album then tour.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 10/25/20 4:40pm

LoveGalore

No I liked the journey he took me on. I'm good with how Prince led his life and what he did or didn't release, tbh.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 10/25/20 7:54pm

bobgeorge77

No, no, no! The 90’s produced some amazing records most notably Come, The Symbol Album, and Emancipation (in all of its 3 disc glory!). I loved following him in the 90s...I went from 18 to 28....his music was really the soundtrack to my life! Oh yeah...love the Gold Experience, amazing tracks on graffiti bridge (I remember dragging my first serious girlfriend to the movie) and I remember how excited I was getting crystal ball in the mail ( with an npg t-shirt!). I got to see him live 3 times (boy I wish it was more), and joy in repetition, Dreamin about u, and extraordinary (as well as crystal ball if that counts) are among my top favorite Prince songs of all time! Thank u Prince...the 90s (and all of it really) were amazing
yes prince music
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 10/25/20 7:59pm

bobgeorge77

Wait...there was Exodus too! And the beautiful experience ep...funny that diamonds and pearls might be my least favorite 90s disc although I love gett off (and that ep!),insatiable,and thunder...(I prefer the boot with the earlier configuration...I have listened to that more than the original).
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 10/25/20 11:10pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

so (this is a spin off of the slave thread) the common criticism of prince is that he released too much, the label couldnt work it enough and exploit each release enough

and the public reached saturation point, they couldnt tell the difference between one big release and the next

but if he did release less albums, would that have created better, stronger, more inarguably excellent albums?

eg, an album in 92, from D&P and the symbol album sessions

an album in 94, from the come and gold sessions (come in gold, lets say)

would this have been a better strategy in the 90s?


But who said there was more in the 90s? or was there less? If we're talking full albums, then let's do some math. (numbers may be off by one or two numbers, don't shoot the messenger

From 1978-1989, there were 11 studio albums of original material, including two double sets.

There was 13 protege/related albums. That's 24 in total.

From 1990-1999, there were 13 studio albums of original material (which counts Kamasutra and Welcome 2 The Dawn as their own albums; and one triple sets), 4 protege/related (3 NPG & Mayte), and a greatest hits package (The Hits with only a half dozen new tracks, which is an EP at best and is counted as 1 project herein), the Peach double EP supplemental to The Hits, and a protege compilation (1800NewFunk). That's about 20 in total. Roughly.

I suppose one could sit down and literally count the tracks released. The 80s had b-sides including those for protege acts, but the 90s had EPs like Cream, Gett Off, and New Power Generation; and bigger maxi singles(The Beautiful Experience, My Name is Prince, eye Hate U, etc) which balances the field a bit.

All that NPGMC stuff didn't start until 2001, just before The Rainbow Children.

I think the music scene changed. Napster, Kazaa, etc., changed it. People were willing to be saturated with music because it was now at their fingertips, to partake at-will. Prince saw that technology and found a way to embrace it, thru NPGMC, New Funk, etc. Prince changed with the times and harnesses the technology for what he wanted to do: put music out for folks.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 10/25/20 11:45pm

databank

avatar

rolleyes
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 10/26/20 12:57am

Graycap23

avatar

This premise makes ZERO sense.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 10/26/20 2:32am

lavendardrumma
chine

Part of me thinks the problem is just how he released it. Love Symbol, D&P and Come make sense are albums but there's some songs that seem like they went on the wrong one. Then '95 on, it's like a grab bag approach, and it's almost like he doesn't value the material enoug to sequence real albums around it, but them overvalues a lot of mediocrity. I don't doubt when he made Animal Kingdom he thought he was making something profound but some of those other 90's tracks, I just can't picture him in the studio not knowing it was a throwaway.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 10/26/20 4:35am

SantanaMaitrey
a

lavendardrummachine said:

Part of me thinks the problem is just how he released it. Love Symbol, D&P and Come make sense are albums but there's some songs that seem like they went on the wrong one. Then '95 on, it's like a grab bag approach, and it's almost like he doesn't value the material enoug to sequence real albums around it, but them overvalues a lot of mediocrity. I don't doubt when he made Animal Kingdom he thought he was making something profound but some of those other 90's tracks, I just can't picture him in the studio not knowing it was a throwaway.


Yeah, but I guess he had the need to tell everyone that he was a vegetarian.
O tempora! O mores!
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 10/26/20 5:44am

NouveauDance

avatar

Did the public reach saturation point? He was still putting out a record a year just like the 80s, there really wasn't much difference. I think it's just times and styles moved on, he wasn't young(er) any more and the press and industry machine are fickle. And really nor the industry, press or audience have much time for petulant whinging millionaires - even if they do have a point.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 10/26/20 6:07am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

its possible the public didnt reach saturation point, but that the label felt they didnt have enough time to work the record. if you get a new one year on year, youre barely finishing with the old one before you get a new one to work on. then again, it could be that the sales would have stayed the same anyway. i think its just that to expect every album to storm the charts, especially if youre releasing a new one ever year, is a bit ambitious. after a certain point in a career, you cant expect that level of interest anymore. so it might be better to slow down a bit. even springsteen who has been steady in releasing albums since the early 70s, has had periods where he just took a break of five years (twice). either way, i dont think it would have made much difference. from reading alex hahns rise of prince book, it seems like those tensions with warners were always there, they just exploded in the early 90s.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 10/26/20 7:35am

WhisperingDand
elions

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:


From 1978-1989, there were 11 studio albums of original material, including two double sets.

There was 13 protege/related albums. That's 24 in total.

From 1990-1999, there were 13 studio albums of original material (which counts Kamasutra and Welcome 2 The Dawn as their own albums; and one triple sets), 4 protege/related (3 NPG & Mayte), and a greatest hits package (The Hits with only a half dozen new tracks, which is an EP at best and is counted as 1 project herein), the Peach double EP supplemental to The Hits, and a protege compilation (1800NewFunk). That's about 20 in total. Roughly.

90s Prince had 7 protege/related (3 NPG & Mayte + Carmen Electra + GCS 2000 + Come 2 My House).

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 10/26/20 7:56am

jdcxc

It definitely wudve been more commercially successful. This is the reason why the Pop Machine makes $$$. But it wudnt b Prince. I think he psychologically needed to revolt and go independent. Can u imagine P modeling his career after every other assembly line Pop Product? And think of ALL the great music real fans wudve missed out on.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 10/26/20 9:06am

RODSERLING

Yes
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 10/26/20 9:25am

herb4

avatar

I think the individual albums may have come off better overall but I really liked having so much more to choose from. I never thought there was such a thing as "too much Prince music" even if I didn't like all of it.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 10/26/20 12:32pm

RJOrion

no
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 10/26/20 12:56pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

WhisperingDandelions said:

90s Prince had 7 protege/related (3 NPG & Mayte + Carmen Electra + GCS 2000 + Come 2 My House).


Damn, you're right! I felt like I was maybe missing something with the Carmen album. Totally missed the NewPowerPak stuff (and I enjoy Chaka's album). They seem so 2000+ for some reason. But yeah, that ups the total a bit.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 10/26/20 3:37pm

lavendardrumma
chine

herb4 said:

I think the individual albums may have come off better overall but I really liked having so much more to choose from. I never thought there was such a thing as "too much Prince music" even if I didn't like all of it.


I think that's always been the attitude, which is why the Vault was so obsessed over but in reality fans were getting lost whether or not there was heavy promotion.


For a large portion of the fan base, they're liking the heavy rotation songs, but not in a way where they're jamming to it in their cars with the windows down, they were satisfied just hearing it on the radio.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 10/26/20 4:04pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

TrivialPursuit said:

WhisperingDandelions said:

90s Prince had 7 protege/related (3 NPG & Mayte + Carmen Electra + GCS 2000 + Come 2 My House).


Damn, you're right! I felt like I was maybe missing something with the Carmen album. Totally missed the NewPowerPak stuff (and I enjoy Chaka's album). They seem so 2000+ for some reason. But yeah, that ups the total a bit.

You see Chaka as a protege?

I wish actually did have a more definative '90's protege scene' to look over and compare to the 80s

(almost Robin Power & the Uptown Dames) (does Tevin Campell count then?) Carmen Electra, Mayte(being in his band at the same time probably made it hard to see her that way for me)

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 10/26/20 5:08pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

rotege?

I wish actually did have a more definative '90's protege scene' to look over and compare to the 80s

(almost Robin Power & the Uptown Dames) (does Tevin Campell count then?) Carmen Electra, Mayte(being in his band at the same time probably made it hard to see her that way for me)


No, but it's a fully realized Prince album. His music, his production mostly, his playing on it.

I don't count Tevin because his album wasn't fully produced by Prince (similar to Taja, or Martika). But, if given my rule about fully produced, then where does Mavis' two albums fall? The first one was half Prince, half those other guys. I forget about the second. They're not protege's but they're more than someone with a random Prince song on a record or someone on PP/NPG records (a la Sheena, Patti, Bangles, Kenny Rogers, Nona, Good Question, Three O'Clock, etc.).

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 10/26/20 5:53pm

purplethunder3
121

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

TrivialPursuit said:


Damn, you're right! I felt like I was maybe missing something with the Carmen album. Totally missed the NewPowerPak stuff (and I enjoy Chaka's album). They seem so 2000+ for some reason. But yeah, that ups the total a bit.

You see Chaka as a protege?

I wish actually did have a more definative '90's protege scene' to look over and compare to the 80s

(almost Robin Power & the Uptown Dames) (does Tevin Campell count then?) Carmen Electra, Mayte(being in his band at the same time probably made it hard to see her that way for me)

Chaka's no protege--ask Rufus.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 10/26/20 10:52pm

databank

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

rotege?

I wish actually did have a more definative '90's protege scene' to look over and compare to the 80s

(almost Robin Power & the Uptown Dames) (does Tevin Campell count then?) Carmen Electra, Mayte(being in his band at the same time probably made it hard to see her that way for me)


No, but it's a fully realized Prince album. His music, his production mostly, his playing on it.

I don't count Tevin because his album wasn't fully produced by Prince (similar to Taja, or Martika). But, if given my rule about fully produced, then where does Mavis' two albums fall? The first one was half Prince, half those other guys. I forget about the second. They're not protege's but they're more than someone with a random Prince song on a record or someone on PP/NPG records (a la Sheena, Patti, Bangles, Kenny Rogers, Nona, Good Question, Three O'Clock, etc.).

The first Mavis was in fact 6 Prince songs out of 8, with some overdubs by Mavis and crew.

The second one was 8 songs out of 12, but included 2 "covers" (Melody Cool and Positivity) and Prince's involvement in the recording of the 5 Ricky Peterson produced tracks remains uncertain (though MBN once told me Prince definitely attended the recording of The Undertaker, but he wasn't sure between P and Ricky who was responsible for what).

So in the end I'd say TWFNO can definitely be counted as a Prince/MAvis collab with 2 tracks not by P. The Voice is a more confusing case, and I usually don't include it as a fully realized Prince record. My rule usually is it's a P record if he was responsible for at least 75% of the material, but this is of course completely arbitrary. Ingrid's album for example is very grey area because Prince originated the project and even if he left it along the way, he named the people to take over and the rest of the material was based on his original concept.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 10/27/20 3:56am

v10letblues

avatar

It wasn't so much about amount, it was about quality. In my opinion the worst period in his career. Other than a few gems here and there, The Truth, Come, it was dumbed down generic sounding music. Chasing the worst trends in music at the time.

If he did not come back in the 2000's with his amazing live shows, it would have ended a lesser artist's carreer.

[Edited 10/27/20 4:03am]

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 10/27/20 4:55am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

i made playlists of come, TGE and C&D that i think make better, more focused albums.

all are only about 40 mins like his best 80s albums.

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 11/08/20 10:09pm

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

I think prince was operating in the wrong era
He grew up in a time when you could release more than one album in a year, or at least was a fan of artists who did that in the 60s a lot
So he prob saw no issue in that himself
Only problem was that the industry had changed a lot in the ensuing decades and when transitions were happening in the 90s at warners, and he suddenly realised his 100m shiny new deal meant he had to sell 5m copies each time out to get the big pay day he could get AND he couldn't funnel his extra music into paisley park releases, he got pissed off and wanted to release even more.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 11/09/20 1:36am

rap

"I've been thinking a lot about the kinds of artists who don't censor their own work. I can think of three conspicuous ones: Picasso is one, Miles Davis is another, Prince is another. They're all people who just put it out, and I think they have almost no critical self-censorship. They say, "Let the market decide; let the world decide."

Brian Eno (1995)

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 11/09/20 2:58am

funkbabyandthe
babysitters

*cough* black album *cough*

 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > if prince DID release less in the 90s, would that have been a good thing?