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Thread started 10/20/20 3:14pm

lust

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Do you consider the Deliverance EP to be a bootleg?

Or does it sit in a sort of twilight zone between bootlegs and official releases?
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #1 posted 10/20/20 3:31pm

databank

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lust said:

Or does it sit in a sort of twilight zone between bootlegs and official releases?

In the end I guess it's a grey area release.

The recordsd was definitely considered illegal by the Amercian justice system, so that makes it a bootleg of sorts, or more appropriately an illegal attempt at an official release. The Mobb Depp record Prince played on was released by their manager without Mobb Depp's approval and they had it taken down, it's kind of the same.

On the other hand, since the person responsible for Deliverance's release appears to have co-composed the material (that part was never clear to me, not sure if Boxill's co-writing credits were ever confirmed), it kind of gives some legitimacy to the project. It's a little like these songs streamed by collaborators without Prince's approval: he could have taken the songs down, he was legally entitled to, but on the other hand it's hard not to consider them legit in the sense that if the person singing the song puts it online, it's hard to consider they're not entitled to even if they don't own the master.

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Reply #2 posted 10/20/20 3:36pm

SquirrelMeat

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As it was legally pulled, it's 'unofficial', but I keep the CD and rips in my released material section as it came out and I bought it.

.
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Reply #3 posted 10/20/20 3:44pm

lust

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SquirrelMeat said:

As it was legally pulled, it's 'unofficial', but I keep the CD and rips in my released material section as it came out and I bought it.



Well done you getting a copy. I only have a digital copy but it’s filed on my OCD compiled server with official releases. Doesn’t feel quite right but seems like the best place for it
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #4 posted 10/20/20 3:54pm

TrivialPursuit

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SquirrelMeat said:

As it was legally pulled, it's 'unofficial', but I keep the CD and rips in my released material section as it came out and I bought it.


Yeah, I was gonna say, didn't the estate seize control of it? It certainly was an unauthorized released. Ol' boy's argument for it was really thin when he first started talking. I don't care how much production he did on it after the fact, if Prince wrote it, he owns the damn thing.

I think given that, it's no more of a bootleg than "All My Dreams" or "And That Says What?" They were all bootlegs, until the estate took ownership and/or control and created a proper means of release.

Deliverance, whatever the songs were meant for, are really great, and I hope a fuller set comes out.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #5 posted 10/20/20 4:09pm

SquirrelMeat

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TrivialPursuit said:

SquirrelMeat said:

As it was legally pulled, it's 'unofficial', but I keep the CD and rips in my released material section as it came out and I bought it.


Yeah, I was gonna say, didn't the estate seize control of it? It certainly was an unauthorized released. Ol' boy's argument for it was really thin when he first started talking. I don't care how much production he did on it after the fact, if Prince wrote it, he owns the damn thing.

I think given that, it's no more of a bootleg than "All My Dreams" or "And That Says What?" They were all bootlegs, until the estate took ownership and/or control and created a proper means of release.

Deliverance, whatever the songs were meant for, are really great, and I hope a fuller set comes out.


Yeah, I love it. Some of the best 00's work. I wonder if the 'co-ownership' has truth to it, as I was surprised Prince sat on this and pulled it off Planet Earth, making the album weaker as a whole.

.
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Reply #6 posted 10/20/20 4:19pm

lavendardrumma
chine

What did turn out to be the exact story on these?

I remember people were claming these were old unfinished songs and outtakes from Planet Earth, and he built the ep out of tapes he had in his possession that he claimed he never got paid for. Is that still the story?

All I know is I wish 3rdEye sounded like "I am".

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Reply #7 posted 10/20/20 4:36pm

TrivialPursuit

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SquirrelMeat said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Deliverance, whatever the songs were meant for, are really great, and I hope a fuller set comes out.


Yeah, I love it. Some of the best 00's work. I wonder if the 'co-ownership' has truth to it, as I was surprised Prince sat on this and pulled it off Planet Earth, making the album weaker as a whole.


I don't totally buy the cowriting credit argument anyway. Remixing or extra production doesn't equal a cowriting credit. No remixer, like Vasquez Morales Knuckles Rauhofer, etc., get a cowriting credit for remixing a Madonna song.

If the guy co-owned those songs, he could've released them anytime. He wanted until after Prince died, then claimed some magical moment with Prince. Bitch, please. Have several seats. Guy's a sideshow barker.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #8 posted 10/20/20 6:06pm

OperatingTheta
n

As stated it occupies a grey area. My issue is the extra production and keyboards Boxhill added and his inclusion of a choir on 'Deliverance'. These additions were not overseen by Prince during their work together, nor approved by him.

Other than Boxhill's post-production, it is very strong material that would've worked well on 'Planet Earth'. I remember reading that it was included on an earlier configuration, but later removed for unspecified reasons.
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Reply #9 posted 10/20/20 8:11pm

luv4u

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Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
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Reply #10 posted 10/20/20 10:43pm

purplethunder3
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This deserves an official release.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #11 posted 10/20/20 11:12pm

AvocadosMax

Oh crap i remember when this dropped and then the estate went “no”


Is it bad i only have “I Am (Extended Version)” in my library? I didn’t keep the other tracks and i only slightly remember the title track... I don’t think I remember the other tracks... but “sun rise, sun set” comes to mind
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Reply #12 posted 10/21/20 1:53am

TheEnglishGent

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It's definietly a boot. It was released by someone who didn't have the authority to release it, so it's pretty clear cut.

It is very good though.

RIP sad
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Reply #13 posted 10/21/20 5:01am

OperatingTheta
n

More information about the 'Man Opera' suite of songs from the Deliverance EP and their presence on an early configuration of Planet Earth:

https://www.princevault.c...title=I_Am
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Reply #14 posted 10/21/20 6:18am

PurpleColossus

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If Prince, or now his estate, didn't give a green light for a release, then I consider it a bootleg.

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Reply #15 posted 10/21/20 6:38am

Se7en

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I snatched up that release as soon as it came out because I knew it was not authorized! It was pulled very shortly after for that very reason.

It was nice to hear Prince on something that I'd never even heard of before. His voice cracks on some spots, which just made him seem more human. I don't even mind that the producer brought in some extra help to round out the tracks after Prince passed.

The producer had guts to release it (and a video!) but he had to know what would've happened.

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Reply #16 posted 10/21/20 7:37am

RJOrion

and there's clearly 3 6's in the artwork... i dont think P wouldve cared for that open display of Satanism

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Reply #17 posted 10/21/20 10:04am

luv4u

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TheEnglishGent said:

It's definietly a boot. It was released by someone who didn't have the authority to release it, so it's pretty clear cut.

It is very good though.


It is

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #18 posted 10/21/20 12:50pm

OperatingTheta
n

luv4u said:



TheEnglishGent said:


It's definietly a boot. It was released by someone who didn't have the authority to release it, so it's pretty clear cut.

It is very good though.




It is



It would've certainly been a game-changer if Prince had decided to include all this material on 'Planet Earth' as he'd originally planned with an earlier configuration. It would've represented a very strong album.
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Reply #19 posted 10/21/20 1:10pm

erik319

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RJOrion said:

and there's clearly 3 6's in the artwork... i dont think P wouldve cared for that open display of Satanism

Proof that crazy people can see whatever the hell they want in stuff.

Whatever you do, for your own sake - Never turn the 1999 album upside down.

[Edited 10/21/20 13:12pm]

blah blah blah
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Reply #20 posted 10/21/20 1:21pm

RJOrion

erik319 said:

RJOrion said:

and there's clearly 3 6's in the artwork... i dont think P wouldve cared for that open display of Satanism

Proof that crazy people can see whatever the hell they want in stuff.

Whatever you do, for your own sake - Never turn the 1999 album upside down.

[Edited 10/21/20 13:12pm]

how bout i turn upside down, so you can kiss my ass...

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Reply #21 posted 10/21/20 1:27pm

erik319

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RJOrion said:

erik319 said:

Proof that crazy people can see whatever the hell they want in stuff.

Whatever you do, for your own sake - Never turn the 1999 album upside down.

[Edited 10/21/20 13:12pm]

how bout i turn upside down, so you can kiss my ass...

Ironically, when you do that, all I can see is your face lol

blah blah blah
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Reply #22 posted 10/21/20 2:12pm

Germanegro

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^^^The banter here... lol

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Reply #23 posted 10/21/20 4:00pm

purplethunder3
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Germanegro said:

^^^The banter here... lol

lol

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #24 posted 10/21/20 5:55pm

TheTruth123

AvocadosMax said:

Oh crap i remember when this dropped and then the estate went “no” Is it bad i only have “I Am (Extended Version)” in my library? I didn’t keep the other tracks and i only slightly remember the title track... I don’t think I remember the other tracks... but “sun rise, sun set” comes to mind

I LOVE this EP. "Sunrise, Sunset" reminded me of something this whole time, and the last time I listened to it I realized what it was.

I felt it sounded like a familiar showtune or soundtrack. At first thought of "Fiddler On The Roof". (don't laugh. "Sunrise, Sunset" was the name of a song on that soundtrack).

I was getting somwhere, but then I realized what it really reminds me of. This music - especially "Sunrise, Sunset" reminds me of the music in Jesus Christ Superstar. I truly wondered if Prince watched the movie prior to creating this music.

Anyone else relate to what i am saying?

[Edited 10/21/20 18:00pm]

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Reply #25 posted 10/21/20 5:57pm

TheTruth123

Se7en said:

I snatched up that release as soon as it came out because I knew it was not authorized! It was pulled very shortly after for that very reason.

It was nice to hear Prince on something that I'd never even heard of before. His voice cracks on some spots, which just made him seem more human. I don't even mind that the producer brought in some extra help to round out the tracks after Prince passed.

The producer had guts to release it (and a video!) but he had to know what would've happened.

Agreed. I didn't know the choir and other things were a post-production. I wondered about that. I LOVE the choir - and thsi ENTIRE EP. One of my favorites. I wonder why Prince didn't release it!

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Reply #26 posted 10/23/20 3:55am

RODSERLING

Yes
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Reply #27 posted 10/23/20 6:12am

dodger

RJOrion said:

erik319 said:

Proof that crazy people can see whatever the hell they want in stuff.

Whatever you do, for your own sake - Never turn the 1999 album upside down.

[Edited 10/21/20 13:12pm]

how bout i turn upside down, so you can kiss my ass...

lol lol fucking hell

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Reply #28 posted 10/23/20 6:19am

jjam

SquirrelMeat said:

As it was legally pulled, it's 'unofficial', but I keep the CD and rips in my released material section as it came out and I bought it.

An actual legit pressed copy from RMA?

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Reply #29 posted 10/23/20 6:31am

TheTruth123

TheTruth123 said:

AvocadosMax said:

Oh crap i remember when this dropped and then the estate went “no” Is it bad i only have “I Am (Extended Version)” in my library? I didn’t keep the other tracks and i only slightly remember the title track... I don’t think I remember the other tracks... but “sun rise, sun set” comes to mind

I LOVE this EP. "Sunrise, Sunset" reminded me of something this whole time, and the last time I listened to it I realized what it was.

I felt it sounded like a familiar showtune or soundtrack. At first thought of "Fiddler On The Roof". (don't laugh. "Sunrise, Sunset" was the name of a song on that soundtrack).

I was getting somwhere, but then I realized what it really reminds me of. This music - especially "Sunrise, Sunset" reminds me of the music in Jesus Christ Superstar. I truly wondered if Prince watched the movie prior to creating this music.

Anyone else relate to what i am saying?

[Edited 10/21/20 18:00pm]

OK. I guess no one else here has the well-roundedness or spiritual insight I do.

Got it smile

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