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Thread started 08/09/20 4:13am

GirlBrother

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The Dream Factory / Camille / Crystal Ball Songs Not on SOTT SDE

What are all the Dream Factory / Camille / Crystal Ball songs which have been released on CD/digital already that won't be on the Sign O' The Times super deluxe edition?

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking...

  1. Good Love (from the Bright Lights, Big City soundtrack)
  2. Feel U Up (Long Stroke) (from the Partyman CD single)
  3. Joy In Repetition (from the Graffiti Bridge album)
  4. Rockhard In A Funky Place (from "The Black Album")
  5. Feel U Up (Short Stroke) (from The Hits/The B-Sides album)
  6. Power Fantastic (Edit) (from The Hits/The B-Sides album)
  7. Crystal Ball (from the Crystal Ball album)
  8. Dream Factory (from the Crystal Ball album)
  9. Movie Star (from the Crystal Ball album)
  10. Crucial (Edit) (from the Crystal Ball album)
  11. Sexual Suicide (from the Crystal Ball album)
  12. Good Love (Edit) (from the Crystal Ball album)
  13. Last Heart (from the Crystal Ball album)
  14. Make Your Mama Happy (from the Crystal Ball album)

Are there any that I've missed?

It actually feels like enough for a fourth CD of vault recordings. I'm certain that "enterprising minds" will assemble a fourth CD anyway. lol

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Reply #1 posted 08/09/20 9:03am

Doozer

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GirlBrother said:

What are all the Dream Factory / Camille / Crystal Ball songs which have been released on CD/digital already that won't be on the Sign O' The Times super deluxe edition?

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking...

  1. Good Love (from the Bright Lights, Big City soundtrack)
  2. Feel U Up (Long Stroke) (from the Partyman CD single)
  3. Joy In Repetition (from the Graffiti Bridge album)
  4. Rockhard In A Funky Place (from "The Black Album")
  5. Feel U Up (Short Stroke) (from The Hits/The B-Sides album)
  6. Power Fantastic (Edit) (from The Hits/The B-Sides album)
  7. Crystal Ball (from the Crystal Ball album)
  8. Dream Factory (from the Crystal Ball album)
  9. Movie Star (from the Crystal Ball album)
  10. Crucial (Edit) (from the Crystal Ball album)
  11. Sexual Suicide (from the Crystal Ball album)
  12. Good Love (Edit) (from the Crystal Ball album)
  13. Last Heart (from the Crystal Ball album)
  14. Make Your Mama Happy (from the Crystal Ball album)

Are there any that I've missed?

It actually feels like enough for a fourth CD of vault recordings. I'm certain that "enterprising minds" will assemble a fourth CD anyway. lol



I would say there's more than enough for a 4th, 5th, and 6th "previously unreleased" discs WITHOUT including your list above of songs that have been officially released in one form or another:

There are 2 Madhouse discs, both out of print, and all their remixes and b-sides

There's Jill Jone's eponymous album, out of print, plus remixes, b-sides, and Prince's own versions of songs that made her album, with the exception of With You, which was a cover of Prince's released version.

There's Sheila E's eponymous album, also out of print, plus remixes, b-sides, and Prince's own versions.

There's Taja Sevelle's PP album with two Prince songs: If I Could Get Your Attention and Wouldn't You Love to Love Me, and Prince's versions of those songs

There are Prince's own aftershows and rehearsals that could be included

1986-87 was quite an adventure. We need an Ultimate Super Deluxe Ediiton of SOTT, for sure.

[Edited 8/9/20 9:16am]

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Reply #2 posted 08/09/20 6:25pm

SixDemonBag

I believe I read an article somewhere discussing the SDE of SotT that said they specifically chose not to add these tracks because of redundancy.

It will be nice to have a studio version of Power Fantastic.
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Reply #3 posted 08/09/20 9:48pm

AvocadosMax

SixDemonBag said:

I believe I read an article somewhere discussing the SDE of SotT that said they specifically chose not to add these tracks because of redundancy.

It will be nice to have a studio version of Power Fantastic.

‘Redundancy’ but they want to ‘please the completionists’ lmao

They must release these tracks one way or another. Maybe we’ll get a whole ass ‘Dream Factory’ album. Included are the final tracklist, with different versions of tracks (so it isn’t completely ‘redundant’)
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Reply #4 posted 08/09/20 9:52pm

AvocadosMax

Based off the 3 tracks so far, this SOTT SDE set will gave outstanding dynamic range... but if you made a playlist using those tracks and tracks from CB98, once it goes to Dream Factory its gonna fuck up your speakers. CB98 is so loud. If you wanted to make your own Dream Factory disc, you’d have to normalize the CB98 tracks enough where it all sounds good together so you don’t have to jump for the volume nob every time
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Reply #5 posted 08/09/20 10:59pm

todesm

I am very happy with all these SDE releases. But feel extremely frustrated not to get each original project as they were originally planned by Prince...

They should release each project separately. We should get the Camille album, the crystal ball and dream factory ones, etc etc with proper packaging for each.

I really dont care about redundancy.

Or at least they should do online releases.

This is a non sense not to have them released at one point.

To me things are not done the right way. Their SDE releases are more like high quality official bootleg compilations, and even if interesting, I definitely don't play them much.i know I would definitely play a Camille or a Crystal Ball release way much more.

Volume difference issue and missing tracks, not to mention possible slight difference in tracks depending on the projects justify releases.
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Reply #6 posted 08/10/20 4:09am

VaultCurator

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Hi GirlBrother,

I don't know whether or not you'd want to include 'Splash' from NPGMC. It began life in 1985 in the Parade era, but was completed in 1986 in the Dream Factory era when Prince added Clare Fischer's orchestra.
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Reply #7 posted 08/10/20 4:23am

databank

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VaultCurator said:

Hi GirlBrother, I don't know whether or not you'd want to include 'Splash' from NPGMC. It began life in 1985 in the Parade era, but was completed in 1986 in the Dream Factory era when Prince added Clare Fischer's orchestra.

I'm somewhat confused: Pvault claims that the released version of Splash was overdubbed in September 1998. But at the same time, the way they phrase it, it appears to be pure speculation: http://princevault.com/in...tle=Splash

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Reply #8 posted 08/10/20 5:47am

GirlBrother

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AvocadosMax said:

Based off the 3 tracks so far, this SOTT SDE set will gave outstanding dynamic range... but if you made a playlist using those tracks and tracks from CB98, once it goes to Dream Factory its gonna fuck up your speakers. CB98 is so loud. If you wanted to make your own Dream Factory disc, you’d have to normalize the CB98 tracks enough where it all sounds good together so you don’t have to jump for the volume nob every time

Oh, trust me... I've been tweaking WAV files in various programs. lol

There's no way to remove the cross-fade from We Can Funk to Joy In Repetition - which is annoying.

It should be fairly easy to recreate the edit of Good Love from the full-length version, so it doesn't have that annoying cross-fade into Strays Of The World.

I do kind of see Splash as more of a Parade-era song. There's never been an uncompressed digital file released, has there? Just an MP3?

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Reply #9 posted 08/10/20 5:59am

databank

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GirlBrother said:

AvocadosMax said:

Based off the 3 tracks so far, this SOTT SDE set will gave outstanding dynamic range... but if you made a playlist using those tracks and tracks from CB98, once it goes to Dream Factory its gonna fuck up your speakers. CB98 is so loud. If you wanted to make your own Dream Factory disc, you’d have to normalize the CB98 tracks enough where it all sounds good together so you don’t have to jump for the volume nob every time

Oh, trust me... I've been tweaking WAV files in various programs. lol

There's no way to remove the cross-fade from We Can Funk to Joy In Repetition - which is annoying.

It should be fairly easy to recreate the edit of Good Love from the full-length version, so it doesn't have that annoying cross-fade into Strays Of The World.

I do kind of see Splash as more of a Parade-era song. There's never been an uncompressed digital file released, has there? Just an MP3?

I'm confused about why you would want to recreate the CB98 edit of Good Love since it's an edit made in 1997 while the original OST version is the version that was on CB86.

.

I'm also kind of confused about why anyone would want to recreate CB86 from a bunch of tinkered files with various sound quality and volume, when the master has leaked in fairly good quality. No matter what you end-up doing, it'll still be shit by comparison to the bootleg.

.

And yes, Splash unfortunately only exists in subpar quality (I'm fine with lossy, but mp3 wasn't what it is today in 2000).

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Reply #10 posted 08/10/20 5:59am

VaultCurator

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GirlBrother said:


I do kind of see Splash as more of a Parade-era song. There's never been an uncompressed digital file released, has there? Just an MP3?


Indeed. Only MP3, unfortunately.

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Reply #11 posted 08/10/20 6:15am

fms

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The different edits of I Could Never Take The Place... and Sign O’ the Times are not on SDE.
Also the version of Strange Relationship on SDE is over 6 minutes. Dream Factory and Crystal Ball version is shorter.
[Edited 8/10/20 6:16am]
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dezinonac eb lliw noitulove ehT
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Reply #12 posted 08/10/20 10:15am

VaultCurator

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GirlBrother said:

It actually feels like enough for a fourth CD of vault recordings. I'm certain that "enterprising minds" will assemble a fourth CD anyway. lol


The Vault discs are arranged in chronological order. To expand the set and include these previously released tracks I’d recommend something along these lines...

Disc 1:

01. Teacher, Teacher (1985 Version) (3:07) [1985]

02. All My Dreams (7:23) [28 April 1985]

03. Dream Factory (3:06) [December 1985]

04. Can I Play With U? (featuring Miles Davis) (6:29) [26 December 1985 - Summer 1986]

05. Last Heart (3:00) [12 January 1986]

06. Wonderful Day (Original Version) (3:47) [30 January 1986]

07. Strange Relationship (Original Version) (6:41) [14 March 1983 - Summer 1985]

08. Visions (2:18) [15 April 1986]

09. The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker (With Horns) (4:56) [15 March 1986 - June 1986]

10. Witness 4 The Prosecution (Version 1) (3:59) [14 March 1986 - 5 June 1986]

11. Power Fantastic (4:55) [19 March 1986]

12. And That Says What? (1:50) [20 March 1986]

13. Love And Sex (1986 Version) (4:11) [unkown]

14. Movie Star (4:25) [27 March 1986]

15. A Place In Heaven (Lisa Vocals) (2:45)

16. Colors (1:01) [May 1986]

17. Big Tall Wall (Version 1) (5:58) [April 1986]

18. Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A (2:33) [April - June 1986]

19. In A Large Room With No Light (3:27) [4 May 1986]



Disc 2:

01. Train (4:22) [7 July 1986]

02. It Ain't Over 'Til The Fat Lady Sings (2:21) [9 July 1986]

03. Eggplant (Original Prince Vocal) (5:18) [8 July 1986]

04. Everybody Want What They Don't Got (2:08) [13 July 1986]

05. Blanche (5:36) [15 July 1986]

06. Joy In Repetition (4:53) [17 July 1986]

07. Soul Psychodelicide (12:36) [22 July 1986]

08. The Ball (4:22) [26 July 1986]

09. Adonis And Bathsheba (5:27) [27 July 1986]

10. Crystal Ball (with Clare Fischer's orchestra) (10:28) [4 August 1986]

11. Forever In My Life (Early Vocal Run-Through) (6:25) [7 August 1986] (finidhed version)



Disc 3:

01. Make Your Mama Happy (4:00) [8 August 1986]

02. Sexual Suicide (3:39) [10 August 1985]

03. Crucial (5.05) [September 1986 - January 1987]

04. The Cocoa Boys (6:06) [14 September 1986]

05. When The Dawn Of The Morning Comes (6:17) [Late September 1986]

06. Witness 4 The Prosecution (Version 2) (5:03) [6 October 1986]

07. It Be's Like That Sometimes (3:19) [1986]

08. Emotional Pump (4:59) [16 October 1986]

09. Feel U Up (6:27) [27 October 1986]

10. Rebirth Of The Flesh (5:28) [28 October 1986]

11. Rockhard In A Funky Place (4:31) [28 October 1986]

12. Good Love (5:11) [30 October 1986]



Disc 4:

01. Cosmic Day (5:39) [15 November 1986 - 5 December 1986]

02. Walkin' In Glory (5:14) [7 December 1986]

03. Wally (4:45) [Late December 1986 / Early January 1987]

04. I Need A Man (5:33) [Late '86/Early 1987]

05. Promise 2 Be True (3:37) [Early 1987]

06. Jealous Girl (Version 2) (4:52) [5 February 1987]

07. There's Something I Like About Being Your Fool (3:48) [25 January 1987]

08. Big Tall Wall (Version 2) (5:46) [11 July 1987]
Alternate versions and mixes:

09. I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man (1979 Version) (3:12)

10. A Place In Heaven (Prince Vocals) (2:57) [27 March 1986]

11. Power Fantastic (Live In Studio) (7:18) [19 March 1986]

12. Crystal Ball (7″ Mix) (3:29) [17 April 1986] (presuming edit of early version)

13. Crucial (Alternate Lyrics Version) (6:14) [13 September 1986] (Basic tracking?)

14. Wonderful Day (12" Mix) (7:34)

15. Strange Relationship (7:07)


Edit for lines breaks

[Edited 8/10/20 10:15am]

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Reply #13 posted 08/10/20 1:16pm

GirlBrother

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databank said:

I'm confused about why you would want to recreate the CB98 edit of Good Love since it's an edit made in 1997 while the original OST version is the version that was on CB86.

Are you sure that edit was made in 1997???

It seems to me that it's more likely to have been edited a decade earlier, for use as a possible single or B-side.

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Reply #14 posted 08/10/20 1:50pm

databank

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GirlBrother said:

databank said:

I'm confused about why you would want to recreate the CB98 edit of Good Love since it's an edit made in 1997 while the original OST version is the version that was on CB86.

Are you sure that edit was made in 1997???

It seems to me that it's more likely to have been edited a decade earlier, for use as a possible single or B-side.

Well to be honest I'm not 100% sure. However:

- No single was ever planned for GL as far as we know, so while a 1986 edit remains a possibility, there is little rationale supporting it.

- HM Buff said he did "mixing" on the CB tracks, so while his statement leaves room for interpretation, it shows the tracks were not all used as such (see the other thread about Crucial and others possibly new 1997 mixes).

- While it's unverified, a very reasonable rationale justifying the GL edit is the fact that, for some reason, P had decided each CD had to be an exact 50mn long, no more no less.

.

So OK, admitedly I was a little hasty to make a definitive statement. I should have said the edit was most likely made in 1997. In the end I hope someone one day asks Buff for more details about what he did with each track, hoping he remembers.

.

Either way, the version on CB86 (and apparently the one on Camille, even if we haven't heard this one yet) was the same as on BLBC, so my point still stands.

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Reply #15 posted 08/10/20 1:52pm

databank

avatar

VaultCurator said:

GirlBrother said:

It actually feels like enough for a fourth CD of vault recordings. I'm certain that "enterprising minds" will assemble a fourth CD anyway. lol


The Vault discs are arranged in chronological order. To expand the set and include these previously released tracks I’d recommend something along these lines...

Disc 1:

01. Teacher, Teacher (1985 Version) (3:07) [1985]

02. All My Dreams (7:23) [28 April 1985]

03. Dream Factory (3:06) [December 1985]

04. Can I Play With U? (featuring Miles Davis) (6:29) [26 December 1985 - Summer 1986]

05. Last Heart (3:00) [12 January 1986]

06. Wonderful Day (Original Version) (3:47) [30 January 1986]

07. Strange Relationship (Original Version) (6:41) [14 March 1983 - Summer 1985]

08. Visions (2:18) [15 April 1986]

09. The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker (With Horns) (4:56) [15 March 1986 - June 1986]

10. Witness 4 The Prosecution (Version 1) (3:59) [14 March 1986 - 5 June 1986]

11. Power Fantastic (4:55) [19 March 1986]

12. And That Says What? (1:50) [20 March 1986]

13. Love And Sex (1986 Version) (4:11) [unkown]

14. Movie Star (4:25) [27 March 1986]

15. A Place In Heaven (Lisa Vocals) (2:45)

16. Colors (1:01) [May 1986]

17. Big Tall Wall (Version 1) (5:58) [April 1986]

18. Nevaeh Ni Ecalp A (2:33) [April - June 1986]

19. In A Large Room With No Light (3:27) [4 May 1986]



Disc 2:

01. Train (4:22) [7 July 1986]

02. It Ain't Over 'Til The Fat Lady Sings (2:21) [9 July 1986]

03. Eggplant (Original Prince Vocal) (5:18) [8 July 1986]

04. Everybody Want What They Don't Got (2:08) [13 July 1986]

05. Blanche (5:36) [15 July 1986]

06. Joy In Repetition (4:53) [17 July 1986]

07. Soul Psychodelicide (12:36) [22 July 1986]

08. The Ball (4:22) [26 July 1986]

09. Adonis And Bathsheba (5:27) [27 July 1986]

10. Crystal Ball (with Clare Fischer's orchestra) (10:28) [4 August 1986]

11. Forever In My Life (Early Vocal Run-Through) (6:25) [7 August 1986] (finidhed version)



Disc 3:

01. Make Your Mama Happy (4:00) [8 August 1986]

02. Sexual Suicide (3:39) [10 August 1985]

03. Crucial (5.05) [September 1986 - January 1987]

04. The Cocoa Boys (6:06) [14 September 1986]

05. When The Dawn Of The Morning Comes (6:17) [Late September 1986]

06. Witness 4 The Prosecution (Version 2) (5:03) [6 October 1986]

07. It Be's Like That Sometimes (3:19) [1986]

08. Emotional Pump (4:59) [16 October 1986]

09. Feel U Up (6:27) [27 October 1986]

10. Rebirth Of The Flesh (5:28) [28 October 1986]

11. Rockhard In A Funky Place (4:31) [28 October 1986]

12. Good Love (5:11) [30 October 1986]



Disc 4:

01. Cosmic Day (5:39) [15 November 1986 - 5 December 1986]

02. Walkin' In Glory (5:14) [7 December 1986]

03. Wally (4:45) [Late December 1986 / Early January 1987]

04. I Need A Man (5:33) [Late '86/Early 1987]

05. Promise 2 Be True (3:37) [Early 1987]

06. Jealous Girl (Version 2) (4:52) [5 February 1987]

07. There's Something I Like About Being Your Fool (3:48) [25 January 1987]

08. Big Tall Wall (Version 2) (5:46) [11 July 1987]
Alternate versions and mixes:

09. I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man (1979 Version) (3:12)

10. A Place In Heaven (Prince Vocals) (2:57) [27 March 1986]

11. Power Fantastic (Live In Studio) (7:18) [19 March 1986]

12. Crystal Ball (7″ Mix) (3:29) [17 April 1986] (presuming edit of early version)

13. Crucial (Alternate Lyrics Version) (6:14) [13 September 1986] (Basic tracking?)

14. Wonderful Day (12" Mix) (7:34)

15. Strange Relationship (7:07)


Edit for lines breaks

[Edited 8/10/20 10:15am]

The problem remains that, for several songs, it's possible (or, in the case of JIR, certain) that they were altered after the original recording session. I really hope Duane will be able to clarify all this in the next book nod

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Reply #16 posted 08/10/20 2:42pm

bonatoc

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The "Short Stroke" of "Feel U Up" doesn't make sense to me,
it butchers and incredible bridge, which builds up the tension
in a fantastic manner to move into the final choruses’ ad lib.

Any single edit doesn't mean much, for that matter.
What good is "When Doves Cry" without the second Gospel part?
What good is "Purple Rain" without the guitar solo?

These edits only interested radio stations,
and have become useless.

I can't figure out why one would put
a singles disc on the turntable
and go through an hour of emasculated versions.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #17 posted 08/10/20 4:27pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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bonatoc said:

The "Short Stroke" of "Feel U Up" doesn't make sense to me,
it butchers and incredible bridge, which builds up the tension
in a fantastic manner to move into the final choruses’ ad lib.

Any single edit doesn't mean much, for that matter.
What good is "When Doves Cry" without the second Gospel part?
What good is "Purple Rain" without the guitar solo?

These edits only interested radio stations,
and have become useless.

I can't figure out why one would put
a singles disc on the turntable
and go through an hour of emasculated versions.

In the days of CDRs I used to like to fit maximum amount of tracks for potential new fans vs. only being able to fit 11-12 tracks to account for Prince's ten-minute "full length" mixes.


...buuut in the days of MP3s and playlists your point is more relevant.

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Reply #18 posted 08/10/20 4:29pm

WhisperingDand
elions

avatar

GirlBrother said:

AvocadosMax said:

Based off the 3 tracks so far, this SOTT SDE set will gave outstanding dynamic range... but if you made a playlist using those tracks and tracks from CB98, once it goes to Dream Factory its gonna fuck up your speakers. CB98 is so loud. If you wanted to make your own Dream Factory disc, you’d have to normalize the CB98 tracks enough where it all sounds good together so you don’t have to jump for the volume nob every time

Oh, trust me... I've been tweaking WAV files in various programs. lol

There's no way to remove the cross-fade from We Can Funk to Joy In Repetition - which is annoying.

It should be fairly easy to recreate the edit of Good Love from the full-length version, so it doesn't have that annoying cross-fade into Strays Of The World.

I do kind of see Splash as more of a Parade-era song. There's never been an uncompressed digital file released, has there? Just an MP3?

You should be editing in 24bit if you're chopping parts of files.

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Reply #19 posted 08/10/20 8:56pm

mediumdry

bonatoc said:

Any single edit doesn't mean much, for that matter.

.

I guess the counterpoint would be Hello. The single "edit" works well and contains parts that are completely missing in the extended version. On top of that, in the extended version Prince goes "everybody...." after which there is no chorus, but an extended instrumental part.

.

Any edit can be different. I am all for including them in SDEs

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #20 posted 08/10/20 9:01pm

mediumdry

GirlBrother said:

There's no way to remove the cross-fade from We Can Funk to Joy In Repetition - which is annoying.

.

Apart from tracks I don't yet know, the full version of Joy In Repetition, without the butchered opening, is the holy grail of outtakes. It's a shame all bootleg versions with the opening just sound horrible. Does anyone know of a decent sounding version? (not that I'm asking for it, just wondering if it is circulating)

I've never been able to frankenstein the intro with the track without the results being less than satisfactory.

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #21 posted 08/11/20 12:29am

BoraBora

mediumdry said:

GirlBrother said:

There's no way to remove the cross-fade from We Can Funk to Joy In Repetition - which is annoying.

.

Apart from tracks I don't yet know, the full version of Joy In Repetition, without the butchered opening, is the holy grail of outtakes. It's a shame all bootleg versions with the opening just sound horrible. Does anyone know of a decent sounding version? (not that I'm asking for it, just wondering if it is circulating)

I've never been able to frankenstein the intro with the track without the results being less than satisfactory.



There is a "Frankenstein" version on the "Can I Play With U" release that merge the lone drum intro with the GB released track.

Obviously far from perfect, but not that bad when you accept the fading in-out of the chat talk.

The same thing was done with "Crucial" merging the CB version with the second part of the full guitar mix, but to my ears it is less successful being the sound quality of the bootleg version used too different and muddled.


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Reply #22 posted 08/11/20 1:15am

Dazza

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I'd love to have a quality copy of Joy in Repetition with the long drum intro

I'm curious to her what a Crystal Ball single edit will sound like???

Green virgin teenager, or filthy rich yuppy. Pussy cat pussy cat, where for out thou puppy
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Reply #23 posted 08/11/20 1:17am

Kares

avatar

databank said:

GirlBrother said:

Are you sure that edit was made in 1997???

It seems to me that it's more likely to have been edited a decade earlier, for use as a possible single or B-side.

Well to be honest I'm not 100% sure. However:

- No single was ever planned for GL as far as we know, so while a 1986 edit remains a possibility, there is little rationale supporting it.

- HM Buff said he did "mixing" on the CB tracks, so while his statement leaves room for interpretation, it shows the tracks were not all used as such (see the other thread about Crucial and others possibly new 1997 mixes).

- While it's unverified, a very reasonable rationale justifying the GL edit is the fact that, for some reason, P had decided each CD had to be an exact 50mn long, no more no less.

.

So OK, admitedly I was a little hasty to make a definitive statement. I should have said the edit was most likely made in 1997. In the end I hope someone one day asks Buff for more details about what he did with each track, hoping he remembers.

.

Either way, the version on CB86 (and apparently the one on Camille, even if we haven't heard this one yet) was the same as on BLBC, so my point still stands.

.
Hans told me that many of Prince's unreleased tracks only existed in the form of quick (draft) mixes (aka refs), often on cassette, later on CD, so when they were working on the CB98 compilation P asked him to mix several songs (whatever P felt needed mixing).
.

[Edited 8/11/20 7:33am]

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Reply #24 posted 08/11/20 7:40am

NouveauDance

avatar

Dazza said:

I'm curious to her what a Crystal Ball single edit will sound like???

Possibly the version from the 90s Moonraker 'Fantasia' bootleg?

.

.

[Edited 8/11/20 7:41am]

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Reply #25 posted 08/11/20 9:42am

BoraBora

NouveauDance said:

Dazza said:

I'm curious to her what a Crystal Ball single edit will sound like???

Possibly the version from the 90s Moonraker 'Fantasia' bootleg?

.

.

[Edited 8/11/20 7:41am]



Unfortunately we had the same thinking, if I'm not wrong the lenght of the "Fantasia" track is near the same as the announced SOTT Deluxe track.

By the way we're probably and hopefully wrong: that version sounds nothing like a single edit being only the last portion of the uncut version with an horrible start.


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Reply #26 posted 08/11/20 9:47am

Dazza

avatar

BoraBora said:



NouveauDance said:



Dazza said:


I'm curious to her what a Crystal Ball single edit will sound like???



Possibly the version from the 90s Moonraker 'Fantasia' bootleg?


.


.


[Edited 8/11/20 7:41am]





Unfortunately we had the same thinking, if I'm not wrong the lenght of the "Fantasia" track is near the same as the announced SOTT Deluxe track.

By the way we're probably and hopefully wrong: that version sounds nothing like a single edit being only the last portion of the uncut version with an horrible start.




Right! In that case I’m doing my own edit.
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Reply #27 posted 08/11/20 2:08pm

databank

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Kares said:

databank said:

Well to be honest I'm not 100% sure. However:

- No single was ever planned for GL as far as we know, so while a 1986 edit remains a possibility, there is little rationale supporting it.

- HM Buff said he did "mixing" on the CB tracks, so while his statement leaves room for interpretation, it shows the tracks were not all used as such (see the other thread about Crucial and others possibly new 1997 mixes).

- While it's unverified, a very reasonable rationale justifying the GL edit is the fact that, for some reason, P had decided each CD had to be an exact 50mn long, no more no less.

.

So OK, admitedly I was a little hasty to make a definitive statement. I should have said the edit was most likely made in 1997. In the end I hope someone one day asks Buff for more details about what he did with each track, hoping he remembers.

.

Either way, the version on CB86 (and apparently the one on Camille, even if we haven't heard this one yet) was the same as on BLBC, so my point still stands.

.
Hans told me that many of Prince's unreleased tracks only existed in the form of quick (draft) mixes (aka refs), often on cassette, later on CD, so when they were working on the CB98 compilation P asked him to mix several songs (whatever P felt needed mixing).
.

[Edited 8/11/20 7:33am]

Wowowow, wait, this appears to be new info since we last spoke!! Not so long ago, in the thread where I wondered which year onwards P's mixdowns were preserved on a usable format (like LTWBD on Originals), you and Bart said you were stunned by the nonexistence of usable mixdowns thoughout P's career. I guess you spoke with Hans since then? Did he say any more than this?

.

Of note is the difference between making a mix that would basically attempt to recreate an earlier draft mix (basically what Bolas has been doing on 1999 SDE) and making a brand new mix by removing or adding tracks (like Bolas frankensteining on Originals, or Prince wanting to try something different at a later date as I suspect he did on CB98). I cannot imagine that, for example, an engineer would take down a sax part or vocals layer without Prince first instructing them which parts of the multitracks were to be used and which were to be put aside.

.

Any further insight you may have is welcome smile

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Reply #28 posted 08/12/20 12:00am

Kares

avatar

databank said:

Kares said:

.
Hans told me that many of Prince's unreleased tracks only existed in the form of quick (draft) mixes (aka refs), often on cassette, later on CD, so when they were working on the CB98 compilation P asked him to mix several songs (whatever P felt needed mixing).
.

[Edited 8/11/20 7:33am]

Wowowow, wait, this appears to be new info since we last spoke!! Not so long ago, in the thread where I wondered which year onwards P's mixdowns were preserved on a usable format (like LTWBD on Originals), you and Bart said you were stunned by the nonexistence of usable mixdowns thoughout P's career. I guess you spoke with Hans since then? Did he say any more than this?

.

Of note is the difference between making a mix that would basically attempt to recreate an earlier draft mix (basically what Bolas has been doing on 1999 SDE) and making a brand new mix by removing or adding tracks (like Bolas frankensteining on Originals, or Prince wanting to try something different at a later date as I suspect he did on CB98). I cannot imagine that, for example, an engineer would take down a sax part or vocals layer without Prince first instructing them which parts of the multitracks were to be used and which were to be put aside.

.

Any further insight you may have is welcome smile

.
Yeah, spoke to him a bit again recently and hopefully we'll speak again sometime soon so I'll have more info. I did find it hard to believe that many unreleased would only have a draft mix on cassette, but apparently that is the case so I was wrong.
This of course makes Howe's job even harder as it means that faithfully recreating the mix they have on cassette is not enough – they would have to guess what changes Prince would've preferred to make to that draft mix. (That is why I would prefer to see the same engineer who worked on the material originally to be brought back in to perform the final mix, instead of someone who's never worked with Prince.)

.

You're right: an engineer is very seldom given the freedom to make artistic decisions such as omitting tracks from the mix. That's the producer's call.

.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

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Reply #29 posted 08/12/20 7:30am

databank

avatar

Kares said:

databank said:

Wowowow, wait, this appears to be new info since we last spoke!! Not so long ago, in the thread where I wondered which year onwards P's mixdowns were preserved on a usable format (like LTWBD on Originals), you and Bart said you were stunned by the nonexistence of usable mixdowns thoughout P's career. I guess you spoke with Hans since then? Did he say any more than this?

.

Of note is the difference between making a mix that would basically attempt to recreate an earlier draft mix (basically what Bolas has been doing on 1999 SDE) and making a brand new mix by removing or adding tracks (like Bolas frankensteining on Originals, or Prince wanting to try something different at a later date as I suspect he did on CB98). I cannot imagine that, for example, an engineer would take down a sax part or vocals layer without Prince first instructing them which parts of the multitracks were to be used and which were to be put aside.

.

Any further insight you may have is welcome smile

.
Yeah, spoke to him a bit again recently and hopefully we'll speak again sometime soon so I'll have more info. I did find it hard to believe that many unreleased would only have a draft mix on cassette, but apparently that is the case so I was wrong.
This of course makes Howe's job even harder as it means that faithfully recreating the mix they have on cassette is not enough – they would have to guess what changes Prince would've preferred to make to that draft mix. (That is why I would prefer to see the same engineer who worked on the material originally to be brought back in to perform the final mix, instead of someone who's never worked with Prince.)

.

You're right: an engineer is very seldom given the freedom to make artistic decisions such as omitting tracks from the mix. That's the producer's call.

.

Cool, thx. I hope you get to learn more about these CB98 tracks!!

.

Regarding the part in bold I'm not sure I understand. Why would they have to do that? On 1999 SDE, wasn't the idea to faithfully recreate the draft mixes we had on bootlegs? I don't have the ears or the patience to compare the mixes second by second, but on most of the tracks there doesn't appear to be much difference with the boots.

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