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Thread started 08/08/20 6:54am

databank

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Was Crucial 1997 an entirely new mix

SOTT deluxe brought me to relisten to the 2 Crucial boots and I realized how different they both are from the version on CB98. Since HM Buff revealed he mixed some of the CB98 material in 97,though he did not explain exactly what he did, it left me to wonder if, besides the edit, Crucial was not an entirely new mix made in 97,that never existed in 1986.
Opinions?
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Reply #1 posted 08/08/20 8:38am

BartVanHemelen

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databank said:

SOTT deluxe brought me to relisten to the 2 Crucial boots and I realized how different they both are from the version on CB98. Since HM Buff revealed he mixed some of the CB98 material in 97,though he did not explain exactly what he did, it left me to wonder if, besides the edit, Crucial was not an entirely new mix made in 97,that never existed in 1986. Opinions?

.

http://www.princevault.co...le=Crucial

.

© Bart Van Hemelen
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It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
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Reply #2 posted 08/08/20 8:40am

databank

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BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

SOTT deluxe brought me to relisten to the 2 Crucial boots and I realized how different they both are from the version on CB98. Since HM Buff revealed he mixed some of the CB98 material in 97,though he did not explain exactly what he did, it left me to wonder if, besides the edit, Crucial was not an entirely new mix made in 97,that never existed in 1986. Opinions?

.

http://www.princevault.co...le=Crucial

.

Pvault offers little information. It evokes the possibility of an edit made in 97, not a new mix, but the page was made long ago, before Buff's interview with Militant.

I know it's unlikely anyone knows anything for sure, but I'm interested in people's ideas on the topic:nod:

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Reply #3 posted 08/08/20 8:48am

RODSERLING

Every older tracks on Crystal Ball were of course new mixes.
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Reply #4 posted 08/08/20 9:07am

databank

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RODSERLING said:

Every older tracks on Crystal Ball were of course new mixes.

I'm not 100% sure. For example I rezally can't hear the slightest difference between CB on the CB86 bootleg and CB98. Except for the edit Good Love also appears to be the very same mix than on BLBC. Could be some were mixdowns Prince had from 86 and decided to keep, while some others were remixed.

Last Heart, also, was always assumed to be an alternate 1986 mix to the one on the bootlegs, but I now realize it's very possible that the only mix from 86 is the one on bootlegs, and that the slightly stripped down mix on CB98 is entirely from 97 as well. So I'd be tempted to say Last Heart and Crucial at least are from 97. The other 80's tracks I'm not entirely sure.

[Edited 8/8/20 9:09am]

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Reply #5 posted 08/08/20 9:29am

BlueShakooo

"Make Your Mama Happy" is a different mix, too.
The organ on the 1st chorus (right at the beginning) is quieter than on the bootleg version.
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Reply #6 posted 08/08/20 11:02am

RJOrion

i dont know how you people get ahold of these mysterious Prince bootlegs i see people referencing...what type of sorcery and thievery is necessary to procure these mystical and mythical recordings?...are they data files?...are they vinyl?...cassettes?..cds?...dvds?

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Reply #7 posted 08/09/20 12:42am

andrewm7

Is the version with Susannah`s lead vocals circulating?

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Reply #8 posted 08/09/20 3:29am

McD

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When I said it was a new ‘97 mix here, databank, you said I was a ‘victim of bias‘.

https://prince.org/msg/7/458945

The vocal mix sounds vastly different and inferior to me. That said, I don’t know enough about these things to say with certainty that a bad vocal mix couldn’t be ‘improved’ somewhat (to some ears) by sound degradation lessening the odd sense of separation and distance in the vocal.

It’s the worst vocal mix on any officially released Prince track for me. I can’t completely discount bias, but the length of the track definitely isn’t a factor. I‘d listen to the bootleg over this any day, even if I found out they were ‘the same’. I’d like to know though.
[Edited 8/9/20 3:29am]
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Reply #9 posted 08/09/20 4:02am

databank

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McD said:

When I said it was a new ‘97 mix here, databank, you said I was a ‘victim of bias‘.

https://prince.org/msg/7/458945

The vocal mix sounds vastly different and inferior to me. That said, I don’t know enough about these things to say with certainty that a bad vocal mix couldn’t be ‘improved’ somewhat (to some ears) by sound degradation lessening the odd sense of separation and distance in the vocal.

It’s the worst vocal mix on any officially released Prince track for me. I can’t completely discount bias, but the length of the track definitely isn’t a factor. I‘d listen to the bootleg over this any day, even if I found out they were ‘the same’. I’d like to know though.
[Edited 8/9/20 3:29am]

I just checked that thread again and I said bias of status quo, which means resistance to change. I suspect many fans felt like this when bootlegs were later officially released in a different form.
However I must admit that until recently I was convinced these mixes were from the 80s.
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Reply #10 posted 08/09/20 1:46pm

williamb610

Another track to check out is Sexual Suicide. On the original bootleg, there was no second Prince vocal. On Crystal Ball, there is Prince doubling up his vocals on the track. I'm pretty sure Prince updated at least some of the bootlegs that we know and love.

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Reply #11 posted 08/09/20 4:22pm

databank

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williamb610 said:

Another track to check out is Sexual Suicide. On the original bootleg, there was no second Prince vocal. On Crystal Ball, there is Prince doubling up his vocals on the track. I'm pretty sure Prince updated at least some of the bootlegs that we know and love.

According to Pvault the additional tracks are on the bootleg not CB, but I didn't check. What you're saying is that, in this case at least, Prince could have gone as far as to record additional vocals in 1997?

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Reply #12 posted 08/09/20 4:42pm

lustmealways

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I swear i read here once that there was 97 vocals on either sexual suicide or last heart or crucial? maybe all of them. can't remember, and i definitely don't have any boots with the original mixes on them anymore.

[Edited 8/9/20 16:43pm]

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Reply #13 posted 08/09/20 6:44pm

imprimis

The bootleg 'Sexual Suicide' is clearly in a late work-in-progress stage. It is sourced from a cassette from Summer/Fall 1985. The song received additional attention in 1985 and 1986.

.

A fair comparison from the same time are the more developed versions of 'Neon Telephone', vs our familiar early bootlegs, or the transitions 'Love or $' went through.

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What we received on CB'98 is most likely a mix drawn from the full multitrack last touched in 1986.

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'Crucial' on CB'98 sounds similar to 'Adonis & Bathsheba' sonically, and is probably an edit of a (quite inferior) mixdown made in late 1986; he may have tinkered with the levels a bit on that mix ca. 1991-1995 for some other unrealized project (Miles, Eric Leeds, proto-Emancipation, etc)

.

'Adore' and even 'Cosmic Day' have this same airy matrix, apparently a thing during this late '86 period, which was brought out excessively in the CB'98 version (they also muted all the horns, Fairlight Sitar2 doing double-duty), perhaps to turn the song from a dated soft jazz effort with rock overtones into something more along the lines of his mid-1990s saccharine ballads.

.

[Edited 8/9/20 19:21pm]

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Reply #14 posted 08/09/20 9:44pm

AvocadosMax

Ok ok how are we gonna use bootlegs as guides as to proper mixes??? Prince said himself bootlegs are not mixed....
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Reply #15 posted 08/10/20 8:01am

LoveGalore

williamb610 said:

Another track to check out is Sexual Suicide. On the original bootleg, there was no second Prince vocal. On Crystal Ball, there is Prince doubling up his vocals on the track. I'm pretty sure Prince updated at least some of the bootlegs that we know and love.


Why would you be pretty sure about this, exactly?

We have zero evidence of this being the case.
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Reply #16 posted 08/11/20 1:19am

Dazza

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I hate the reverb on the CB version

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