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Reply #60 posted 08/08/20 7:36am

ThePersian

EmmaMcG said:

I personally never liked the album. A few good songs, but nothing great, and some truly horrific songs put this album amongst my least favourite Prince albums. I disagree regarding SoulAlive's take on it being "dated" though. I don't understand that as a criticism at all. All the best music sounds "dated" because most of it is old. Diamonds and Pearls isn't bad because it's dated. It's just bad.

This is so true...

...using the 'dated' thing says something (more often than not) about the individual reviewing it.

Songs in the key of life sounds dated... right? One of the greatest albums ever....

I listened to D&P a lot when it came out..... I remember thinking when listening to Thunder - what an awesome opener, if this is the first track then the rest of the album will blow my mind. I was very wrong.

Whilst it's an 'enjoyable' album there is absolutely nothing on the album that would rank in my top 20 Prince songs, and I'm guessing its the same for most Prince fans.

There's nothing as quirky and brilliant as Joy in Repetition or Anna Stesia, nothing as funky as Lady Cab Driver or Erotic City and nothing as heart-breaking and sad as The Beautiful Ones or It's Gonna Be Lonely.

It's all conjecture (obviously) but I think Prince's ego had taken a bash with Batman and Graffiti Bridge. Batman was a safe album designed to sell rather reasonably well whilst not being a fair reflection of his creative powers and Graffiti Bridge was supposed to be his Purple Rain MkII, whilst having moments of utter brilliance was (and still is) a mess and did not sell in the same way that Purple Rain did, notr did it achieve the same critical success.

He wanted success and sales AND to feel relevant musically and be popular. I find the album liner notes a bit crass and ego massagy. So perhaps the choices he made (artistically) seem to back it up. The hip-hop & rap influences on the album are pretty poor.

It would be interesting to hear the arguements that support the theory that the album is a strong artistic statement / piece of work. I just can't see it.

In my OCD world I see the album track score as follows:

Thunder 7

Daddy Pop 5

Diamonds and Pearls 4

Cream 7

Strollin' 7.5 (love his voice on the second half of the song)

Willing & Able 9

Gett Off 6 (This is just for the album version, the Urge and Thrust Mixes both score 8.5)

Walk Don't Walk 5 (the car and engine sound effect are just annoying)

Jughead 2

Money Don't Matter 2Nite 7.5

Push 2

Insatiable 6

Live 4 Love 3

That's a 5.4 score overall.

Yet the album is his somewhere between 2nd and 4th biggest seller world-wide, depending on which list you look at.

The Earth is but one country and mankind its citizens.
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Reply #61 posted 08/08/20 8:24am

Milty2

I love how people call parts of Prince's output garbage yet spend quite a bit of time on this website.

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Reply #62 posted 08/08/20 8:36am

BanishedBrian

dustoff said:

kpowers said:

I think Get off was an edgy song, especialy the video


I agree, Gett Off isn't bad. I don't really think of D&P as a bad album in general, just one that feels a bit flat, a bit 'meh.' The assless chaps were fun, but the less said about the Game Boyz the better, IMHO.

Whoa!

.

A family was born, and God bless them cause they were funky.

.

Everything they did was on the positive tip.

.

And they got a message for you if you gonna be a sucker with lip!

No Candy 4 Me
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Reply #63 posted 08/08/20 9:03am

dodger

OperatingThetan said:

It's a strong, cohesive album that was exactly what was needed at the time to return Prince to commercial prominence and introduce him to an entirely new generation of fans. It's easy to forget just how huge this album was, particularly in Europe, where it sparked the zenith of Prince's popularity there. I was 13 when it was released in 91 and have been a massive fan ever since. As it ignited my love of Prince's music and was really my first introduction to him, I remain very fond of it, along with Love Symbol.

Listening today with contemporary ears (not reflecting the trends and sense of appeal in 91) if you remove 'Push' and 'Jughead' it is still a very strong, high quality album that includes some sounds and directions not explored in Prince's officially released music until that time.

Some of the material remains the most open and accessible to introduce new listeners to, and the more organic sounding compositions have dated well.


Agree 100% and virtually all applies to me except I was 15 in 91.
.
I love the timeless organic live band sound of the likes Willing And Able, Money Don't Matter and it carried on through to GoldNigga and the Symbol album.
.
I've recently rediscovered Live 4 Love live since its been on YouTube and iTunes (the version from the D&P version). What a band that was. Rosie's backing vox take it up a level, it's a shame she's not on the album version.
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Reply #64 posted 08/08/20 12:18pm

Marrk

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SimonCharles said:

lust said:

Someone tell me damn it! lol

Well, I find it hard to believe you are bored with songs Anthony Keidis, then of Red Hot Chili Peppers fame, labelled the funkiest songs he'd ever heard, in a no way contractually obligated fashion, for the Diamonds and Pearls tour book/merchandise. hmmm

Blood Sugar Sex Magik is the fifth studio album by American rock band Red Hot Chili Peppers, released on September 24, 1991 by Warner Bros. Records.

No way contractuall obligated. Not at all! lol

Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #65 posted 08/08/20 12:35pm

EmmaMcG

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Milty2 said:

I love how people call parts of Prince's output garbage yet spend quite a bit of time on this website.



What does one thing have to do with another? Part of his output WAS "garbage", as you out it. But fortunately, I'd say about 75% of it was good to great. Being a fan of an artist doesn't mean you ignore when they put out tripe. There's not one artist who has a 100% faultless catalogue. And sometimes it's good to have a discussion about what you dislike about certain projects from the artist because this place, and others like it, would be pretty fucking boring if everyone liked everything and all shared the same opinions.
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Reply #66 posted 08/08/20 2:25pm

GirlBrother

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Milty2 said:

I love how people call parts of Prince's output garbage yet spend quite a bit of time on this website.



Any prolific artist's output will contain certain amounts of garbage, but you can still go dumpster-diving to find the good stuff.

Even his worst albums have two or three amazing songs on them.

Albums like Diamonds And Pearls are just a terrible experience when played beginning to end.
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Reply #67 posted 08/08/20 2:45pm

looby

Milty2 said:

I love how people call parts of Prince's output garbage yet spend quite a bit of time on this website.

Not everything the man did was perfect you know.

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Reply #68 posted 08/08/20 4:32pm

lust

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I find people who say stuff like “no real Prince fan doesn’t like x” or “how come there’s people that don’t like certain stuff but hang out here?” creepy as fuck.

I bet they’d play wedding feast at their own ceremony if they could and think Purple and Gold is better than We will rock you.

Prince didn’t seem to mind fans who who could critique his work without gushing over every thing he did. The peach and black boys got flown to NY from Aus to hang out with him. He seemed to find the “I love every damn thing you’ve done” gushy mob as creepy as I do.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #69 posted 08/08/20 9:55pm

kpowers

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EmmaMcG said:

Milty2 said:

I love how people call parts of Prince's output garbage yet spend quite a bit of time on this website.

What does one thing have to do with another? Part of his output WAS "garbage", as you out it. But fortunately, I'd say about 75% of it was good to great. Being a fan of an artist doesn't mean you ignore when they put out tripe. There's not one artist who has a 100% faultless catalogue. And sometimes it's good to have a discussion about what you dislike about certain projects from the artist because this place, and others like it, would be pretty fucking boring if everyone liked everything and all shared the same opinions.

Couldn't said it better myself.

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Reply #70 posted 08/09/20 7:42am

tab32792

This



Milty2 said:

I love how people call parts of Prince's output garbage yet spend quite a bit of time on this website.

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Reply #71 posted 08/10/20 12:54am

ChickenMcNugge
ts

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When you're talking about an artist with 39 studio albums under his own name, and loads of other stuff besides, it's quite easy anyway to dislike a significant proportion of his catalogue and still be a massive fan. There isn't really a contradiction there like there would be if you were talking about an artist with three or four career albums.

As for D&P, TBH, it's grown a lot on me lately. I wouldn't regard it as being in my top 10 Prince albums, but it might well be in my top 20. Love Symbol's a more artistically rewarding project for sure, though. It eradicates a lot of the blandness that D&P suffers from, while upping the proportion of 'edgier' stuff.

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Reply #72 posted 08/10/20 1:00am

MIRvmn

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It's a good album with a few bad songs on it. I don't like Daddy Pop, Push, Strollin' and Jughead. I prefer prince cuz it's a much stronger album.
We are living in Orwell's 1984
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Reply #73 posted 08/10/20 3:02am

kpowers

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lust said:

I find people who say stuff like “no real Prince fan doesn’t like x” or “how come there’s people that don’t like certain stuff but hang out here?” creepy as fuck. I bet they’d play wedding feast at their own ceremony if they could and think Purple and Gold is better than We will rock you. Prince didn’t seem to mind fans who who could critique his work without gushing over every thing he did. The peach and black boys got flown to NY from Aus to hang out with him. He seemed to find the “I love every damn thing you’ve done” gushy mob as creepy as I do.

I never really consider that as a song. I consider it more like a segue, like through out the Gold experience.

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Reply #74 posted 08/10/20 4:59am

Se7en

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lust said:

Se7en said:

I'd be curious to know if you're still listening to/energized by other artists who had huge albums that year?

MJ Dangerous
Metallica - Metallica
Nirvana Nevermind
U2 Achtung Baby
Pearl Jam Ten
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Blood Sugar Sex Magik
Guns N Roses - Use Your Illusion
Etc.

No but I don’t usually listen to albums much. I wasn’t a huge fan of Dangerous at the time though I tried to be as I was still a fan back then.


I didn't care of Dangerous much either. Too many "beats" from Teddy Riley IMO.

Also - I didn't like that there was ANOTHER Dangerous song after we'd just had Dangerous songs from Roxette and Depeche Mode!

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Reply #75 posted 08/10/20 5:43am

Milty2

tab32792 said:

This Milty2 said:

I love how people call parts of Prince's output garbage yet spend quite a bit of time on this website.

And yet there is some pretty loose responses (justification) on their part. God bless them smile

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Reply #76 posted 08/10/20 6:42am

SquirrelMeat76

Big disappointment for me. Felt watered down, too clean, commercial. It did open up the mainstream for him again though, was a massive hit in the UK. I don't really listen to it anymore. Strollin' was the best song on it for me

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Reply #77 posted 08/10/20 7:37am

masaba

Se7en said:



lust said:


Se7en said:

I'd be curious to know if you're still listening to/energized by other artists who had huge albums that year?

MJ Dangerous
Metallica - Metallica
Nirvana Nevermind
U2 Achtung Baby
Pearl Jam Ten
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Blood Sugar Sex Magik
Guns N Roses - Use Your Illusion
Etc.



No but I don’t usually listen to albums much. I wasn’t a huge fan of Dangerous at the time though I tried to be as I was still a fan back then.


I didn't care of Dangerous much either. Too many "beats" from Teddy Riley IMO.

Also - I didn't like that there was ANOTHER Dangerous song after we'd just had Dangerous songs from Roxette and Depeche Mode!


I LOVE Dangerous. Teddy and the engineers did a great job. MJ randomly knocked this one out of the park. There's enough tracks on it that sound great to this day.
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Reply #78 posted 08/10/20 1:14pm

SoulAlive

I remember,before this album came out,it was reported that Lisa Bonet would be directing the video for "Walk Don't Walk".I also recall MTV airing a promo commercial for their Unplugged show,saying that Prince and The New Power Generation would appear on an upcoming show.

Anyone remember that?

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Reply #79 posted 08/10/20 2:31pm

namepeace

ThePersian said:

I listened to D&P a lot when it came out..... I remember thinking when listening to Thunder - what an awesome opener, if this is the first track then the rest of the album will blow my mind. I was very wrong.

Whilst it's an 'enjoyable' album there is absolutely nothing on the album that would rank in my top 20 Prince songs, and I'm guessing its the same for most Prince fans.

There's nothing as quirky and brilliant as Joy in Repetition or Anna Stesia, nothing as funky as Lady Cab Driver or Erotic City and nothing as heart-breaking and sad as The Beautiful Ones or It's Gonna Be Lonely.


The consensus surrounding Prince's Golden Age largely cuts off at 1988, so I generally agree.

In my OCD world I see the album track score as follows: let's see . . .

Thunder 7 5

Daddy Pop 5 5.5

Diamonds and Pearls 4 7

Cream 7 8

Strollin' 7.5 7

Willing & Able 9 7.5

Gett Off 6 7 (Housetyle 8.5)

Walk Don't Walk 5 4

Jughead 2 3

Money Don't Matter 2Nite 7.5 8.5

Push 2 3

Insatiable 6 7.5 (one of his better slow jams)

Live 4 Love 3 3

That's a 5.4 score overall. Funny, I'm coming up with 5.8, not too far off from your score. It seems the sum of the parts was definitely greater than the whole, which was true for many of his albums over the next 25 years.

[Edited 8/17/20 11:27am]

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #80 posted 08/10/20 4:36pm

wasitgood4u

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It’s complicated...

Very exciting at the time. gett off with the MTV Awards performance was
mindblowing. Plus, it was nice for him to get some mainstream success again, and in a cool way. It was refreshing with the new look and band (and sound). Big relief after GB, especially the movie. p was cool again.

BUT I remember being disappointed hearing the song D&P on the radio before the record came out. Sounded so overproduced and schmaltzy. Lots more on the record gave that feeling.

BUT I played the record to death And first time P came to Australia. first time seeing him live.

BUT that added even more to the overplay on this album.

I shelved this album and never really took it out again. It is the ONLY one I no longer own.
I think the next album played a large part. It started to emerge while he was still touring Oz. The album was so much more satisfying, complex and diverse and less commercial and light. LOvesymbol was for years one of my favorite P records. There didn’t seem
Much reason to play D&P (except for Gett Off and W&A). I too eventually got a bl with alternate versions and that was enuff for me.

(Funny to mention - I lost interest in PR for about a decade because of overkill from around ‘86 to around ‘95 I don’t think I listened to it at all. Hard to believe but it sounded REAlly dated during those years. But after that it’s become a classic to pick up again and again endlessly. D&P? Not so much...)
[Edited 8/10/20 16:37pm]
"We've never been able to pull off a funk number"

"That's becuase we're soulless auttomatons"
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Reply #81 posted 08/10/20 4:42pm

wasitgood4u

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I see a lot of parallels between Musicology-3121 and D&P-Symbol.

In both cases the first was a commercially successful crowd pleasing comeback but fans prefer the weirder more eclectic follow-up, which was still commercial and successful but less so.

I think Musocology stands up better than D&P and is more consistent but I listen to 3121 way more.
"We've never been able to pull off a funk number"

"That's becuase we're soulless auttomatons"
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Reply #82 posted 08/10/20 11:34pm

dustoff

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wasitgood4u said:

I see a lot of parallels between Musicology-3121 and D&P-Symbol.


Makes sense.

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Reply #83 posted 08/11/20 12:58am

kpowers

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dustoff said:

wasitgood4u said:

I see a lot of parallels between Musicology-3121 and D&P-Symbol.


Makes sense.

I agree as well

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Reply #84 posted 08/11/20 5:20am

Milty2

SoulAlive said:

I remember,before this album came out,it was reported that Lisa Bonet would be directing the video for "Walk Don't Walk".I also recall MTV airing a promo commercial for their Unplugged show,saying that Prince and The New Power Generation would appear on an upcoming show.

Anyone remember that?

Yes I remember the MTV Unplugged promo. It was quite an exciting moment in Prince lore. But only a moment.

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Reply #85 posted 08/11/20 10:17am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

looby said:

Milty2 said:

I love how people call parts of Prince's output garbage yet spend quite a bit of time on this website.

Not everything the man did was perfect you know.

Is this a part of what you are complainging about the Org?

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
What's the matter with your life...?
https://www.youtube.com/w...nm2Qq6QTFs
#IDEFINEME
https://www.youtube.com/w...7Xc21b6BYE
Keep Looking
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Reply #86 posted 08/12/20 5:18am

FUNKNROLL

Prince was always known for synthesizing genres and trends. This album’s sound was a product of mass media tastes at the time which isn’t a good thing. There really weren’t any good options for inspiration.

At the time radio shifted toward balladry by default. Diane Warren songs were everywhere. She was the Max Martin of her day and newcomers like Celine Dion were breaking in by riding her overwrought adult contemporary tidal wave. To my ear D&P, the song, will always be Prince making easy cash and mocking Diane Warren. He revisited that well with TMBGITW, too.

Meanwhile, Prince’s 80s contemporaries (Madonna, George Michael, Duran Duran, U2) were adopting more mature takes on their sounds. Prince had already done that, in 87, with SOTT. So what did that leave him with?

New Jack Swing was already old Jack swing by that point. But that didn’t stop him from emulating it with a very compressed production. His take doesn’t sound like he’s embracing and exploring it so much as turning it into an adult contemporary preset. Muzak Jack Swing if you will. In some ways that’s understandable. Riley’s sound was fresh in its day but it was limited in terms of where it could go. So it became well rehearsed and widely recited pretty quickly.

In terms of content, the album did break some ground by flirting with personal reveals. Prince’s lyrics were expressing more personal experiences and religious views. Unfortunately, he perfected his confessions on 88’s Lovesexy. So D&P’s attempts feel more like commodity than intimacy.

Now of you’ll excuse me I have to go return some VHS tapes...
[Edited 8/12/20 5:19am]
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Reply #87 posted 08/16/20 7:57pm

ThePanther

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It seems a lot of folks don't rate the song "Diamonds & Pearls", and I understand that because it has a lot of aspects that I normally dislike myself:

- schmaltzy & slick

- mid-tempo

- middle-of-the-road aesthetics

- clearly aiming at mainstream pop radio
- lyrics not particularly interesting by Prince's standards


So, yeah, I get it... BUT I LOVE THIS SONG, and have done so ever since it caught my ear back in 1991. (It was a huge hit, too -- #3 in the USA, and I remember it hanging around the top-5 for several weeks.)

I just like it. It has a really, really strong and indelible melody, and I think the arrangement is fantastic. The little drum 'solo' break in the middle, and especially Rosie's vocals are just great and really elevate the track. It's a 100% score on the "listenable" scale, even if the song itself isn't exactly screaming 'vitality'.


For me, the three most superb tracks on this LP are

- Diamonds & Pearls

- Gett Off

- Money Don't Matter 2Nite

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Reply #88 posted 08/17/20 6:21am

Se7en

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I enjoyed this album immensely when it came out, and even extending into the prince album.

The Gangster Glam look was a cool new look for him.

The one thing (to me) that dogs both albums is the rapping/hip-hop presence. On D&P, it's just too much. On prince, it's the right amount.

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Reply #89 posted 08/17/20 6:25am

ThatWhiteDude

avatar

ThePanther said:

It seems a lot of folks don't rate the song "Diamonds & Pearls", and I understand that because it has a lot of aspects that I normally dislike myself:

- schmaltzy & slick

- mid-tempo

- middle-of-the-road aesthetics

- clearly aiming at mainstream pop radio
- lyrics not particularly interesting by Prince's standards


So, yeah, I get it... BUT I LOVE THIS SONG, and have done so ever since it caught my ear back in 1991. (It was a huge hit, too -- #3 in the USA, and I remember it hanging around the top-5 for several weeks.)

I just like it. It has a really, really strong and indelible melody, and I think the arrangement is fantastic. The little drum 'solo' break in the middle, and especially Rosie's vocals are just great and really elevate the track. It's a 100% score on the "listenable" scale, even if the song itself isn't exactly screaming 'vitality'.


For me, the three most superb tracks on this LP are

- Diamonds & Pearls

- Gett Off

- Money Don't Matter 2Nite

I LOVE Diamonds and Pearls, I remember when they started uploading his music videos to his youtube channel, I was eagerly waiting for Diamonds and Pearls. I didn't have spotify at that time, so I hadn't heard the song in a long time.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."

Poppys, Shanon319, Number23, Kares. #lifttheban
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Diamonds and Pearls album. A great album. So why do I find it so boring now?