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Thread started 07/05/19 3:47pm

Dalia11

Prince's Personality, a discussion of some theories , not a diagnosis of his personality.

I follow the psychodynamic psychology theories.

Childhood trauma affects children and will continue to affect them when they are adults if they do not get psychological assessment.

Over the years I have heard a lot of criticism about Prince's personality.

He was controlling, mean, not tolerant of certain people, was a womanizer, etc.

People who have some knowledge about psychology would ask "Why does the person exhibit those behaviors?".

There is a reason for every action.

Most have unresolved childhood issues of some form of abuse, issues with one or both parents.

I have read that Prince was beaten by his father when he was a toddler, verbally abused by his father and maybe his mother did the same to him?


I am writing this thread to talk about psychology. And we can all learn something from the experiences of others, especially the celebrities. Some of us can relate to each others experiences. The one's who cannot relate tend to be critical. Learning some of the basic principles of psychology can help people understand themselves and others!
[Edited 7/24/19 8:46am]
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Reply #1 posted 07/05/19 4:02pm

Dalia11

I have also read that:

His mother showed him porn movies when he was a kid.

His parents were very religious and told him that his seizures was caused by evil forces.

His father threw him out of the house when he was a tween because he was caught in his father's bed with a girl.

Instead of living with his family as a teenager, he lived with his best friend's family.

His father played at a strip club and Prince saw the strippers when he was a toddler. And he probably saw other things going on there too!

He had many unresolved childhood issues that were not resolved. That influenced his personality to have some negative traits in adulthood.

He was taught negative behavior so he displayed negative behavior throughout his life.
[Edited 7/5/19 16:09pm]
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Reply #2 posted 07/05/19 4:14pm

Dalia11

That affectsd his romantic relationships,friendships, negative decisions, beliefs, behavior, communication, etc.
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Reply #3 posted 07/05/19 4:30pm

Dalia11

And I study astrology.

He was a Gemini. That sign is not an emotional sign(especially the men). They are rational, honest, focused on their needs, fickle, changeable, clever, creative, artistic, fast moving, contradictary, moody, have two sides to their personality, secretive, do not like to reveal their true feelings, like games, pranks, are witty, blunt, like to be in charge, impatient, restless.

That he why he got along with certain signs only and with people who had compatible planetary aspects with his Rising(Scorpio), Moon(Pisces), Mars(Aries), Venus(Taurus), Mercury(Gemini).
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Reply #4 posted 07/05/19 5:41pm

nonesuch

What a fatnastic thread! Thank you. There's a lot to discuss here.

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Reply #5 posted 07/05/19 5:54pm

Dalia11

That is exactly why I started this thread about psychology.
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Reply #6 posted 07/05/19 6:04pm

Dalia11

In the song "Papa", he talks about his father beating him. At the end of the song he states: "Don't abuse children or else they will turn out like me!". He was in his 30's when this song came out from the "Come" album.

His father used to be critical of Prince's music. Saying to his child son your music is not good. That is not good when a parent is envious of their child's talent because they were not successful in their career!
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Reply #7 posted 07/05/19 6:11pm

nonesuch

Where does one start to examine Prince's personality in the perspective of psychology, without wanting to expose the places he got hurt early on? I have have read an interesting book called "The Velvet Rage“, which deals with narcisstic injurys experienced by gay men in their respective childhoods. Those experiences turned most of them into adults with an urge to make up for their inner blanknesses by being better then anyone else in their professions. This is not a characteristic found solely in gay men, but it is more prevelant among us, because most of us felt rebuffed due to who we are. I can imagine that Prince might have felt rebuffed by his parents for other reasons, which tell more about them than about him. His seemingly unstoppable urge to be a better musician than anyone else (especailly a better one than his father was), his determination to gain control over every aspect of his artistic life, could have been a substitute of not having had control of his emotional stability.

What do you think?

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Reply #8 posted 07/05/19 6:16pm

Dalia11

His father told him "Do not get a girl pregnant". But It was ok for his father to have 50 kids(I am exaggerating with the amount).
I do not know what age he told him this? And both parents need to talk to their kids about sex, relationships, etc.

His parents divorced when Prince was 10. Boys need a good father figure and so do girls. Growing up in broken homes will have a negative affect on kids. And kids seeing their parents fight, be abusive to eachother will have a negative affect on them and their future relationships.
[Edited 7/5/19 18:27pm]
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Reply #9 posted 07/05/19 6:24pm

Dalia11

Nonesuch, good points. He was overcompensating with his career and being in control because of what he did not receive from his parents. He did not receive from his parents: love, support, compassion, positive guidance, etc.
[Edited 7/5/19 20:41pm]
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Reply #10 posted 07/05/19 6:32pm

nonesuch

Add to that the amount of guilt and shame that his religious uprbinging exposed him to and you can make out the path that he followed with much of his work. Evenetually, near the end, the walls he built to protect himself, were so high that he was seemingly disentrigated.

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Reply #11 posted 07/05/19 6:49pm

Dalia11

His father probably was abused in some way by his father or other family member. The old fashioned way of disciplining kids by beating them. And the adults with psychological issues or drinking problems would beat kids for no reason.

And having strict religious beliefs made matters worse.

Boys being raped by a family member/family friend, teacher, priest will have a negative affect on them if they do not get treatment.
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Reply #12 posted 07/05/19 6:58pm

Dalia11

LL Cool J(Capricorn). His song "Father", he talks about his mother's boyfriend beating him, his father being abusive to his mother and him needing a father around him. A lot of people have issues with their parents and or being abused by a step-parent, family friend, etc.
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Reply #13 posted 07/05/19 7:11pm

Dalia11

Prince did positive things that people do not talk about/seem to forget. He gave money to charities, organizations, schools, etc. Many people do not know about that because he would not brag about it.

He helped many artists with their careers. If it wasn't for Prince, people would not know any of his past associates.

He created a plethora of songs. Music is healing.

And children need to have music and the arts in school, homelife. It promotes learning, keeps them busy and is relaxing, healing.
[Edited 7/6/19 8:19am]
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Reply #14 posted 07/06/19 4:58am

nonesuch

Dalia11 said:

Prince did do positive things too. He gave money to charities, organizations, schools, etc. Many people do not know about that because he would not brag about it. He helped many artists with their careers. If it wasn't for Prince, people would not know any of his past associates. He created a plethora of songs. Music is healing. And children need to have music and the arts in school, homelife. It promotes learning, keeps them busy and is relaxing, healing.

How do you mean „Prince did do positive things, too“? That sounds as if he did a lot of destructive things. If you intended to say that, then you must be kidding. He did a humongous amount of „positive things“, his creativity that produced great music is the prime example. Please understand that emotional instability or the quest to overcome it has produced great art throughout the centuries. Sure, sometimes Prince put on a charade to cover up his scars behind a glossy image. But when it got too much, every once in a while he pulled the curtain back to shine a light on what he was really all about. I can't think of any of his superstar-peers who did that as consistently as Prince. Madonna? The gloss is still all over the place. The White one from Neverland? He went on to perfect the charade. Srpingsteen? It was decades later that he gave his disorder a name: depression.

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Reply #15 posted 07/06/19 5:20am

alxndrstff

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This is only to put what I post into context instead of some sort of boast, to be clear - my experience with Psychology is only at Honours Degree level at Glasgow Uni. I'm in no way claiming to be an expert.

The biggest issue you have trying to apply any theory to someone like Prince is the sheer difference in lifestyle he had compared to the average person once fame kicked in. The pressure to be a certain way, or as Prince would often do try to confound those expectations, was huge. People reacted to him differently also. All that pretty standard stuff that happens to celebrities was there.

But then you had something more, something that doesn't always apply. Prince wasn't just a talented musician. I could imagine his life being almost painful at times as he overflowed with creativity. Anyone who has that sort of urge will tell you it's very difficult to just switch it off, or to allow something they've thought of to just drift away. They HAVE to explore it, create it, bring it to life. Prince himself told us that he was at the extreme edge of that, and believed his time in the studio was unhealthy at one point. He also described how it was impossible for him to listen to other music without imagining how he would produce it, change it etc.

I can't even begin to understand a life where you can't just sit and enjoy music. It's one of the very few art forms the vast majority of people love in some way, and use to help boost their mood. Prince could only do that when performing or creating.

And music was what defined him. From a very young age, others and himself would have spoken about him not in terms of who he was, but what he was good at.

Like many, he had childhood traumas to deal with. Being the height and build he was, he had that to deal with too. At his absolute creative peaks, it was clear he was trying to prove something to more than just himself.

So yes, there was stories of controlling behaviour, and plenty of things people would categorise as character flaws. And much of it did deserve criticism. But it can't be easily explained by standard psychological theories, because he didn't fall into the categories that tends to cover.

From a perspective of psychology, which is simply a science trying to explain and predict human behaviour (the latter of those does contain a lot of concerns in my eyes), it's nigh on impossible to analyse Prince.

So look into the mirror, do u recognise some1? Is it who u always hoped u would become, when u were young?
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Reply #16 posted 07/06/19 5:29am

nonesuch

alxndrstff said:

This is only to put what I post into context instead of some sort of boast, to be clear - my experience with Psychology is only at Honours Degree level at Glasgow Uni. I'm in no way claiming to be an expert.

The biggest issue you have trying to apply any theory to someone like Prince is the sheer difference in lifestyle he had compared to the average person once fame kicked in. The pressure to be a certain way, or as Prince would often do try to confound those expectations, was huge. People reacted to him differently also. All that pretty standard stuff that happens to celebrities was there.

But then you had something more, something that doesn't always apply. Prince wasn't just a talented musician. I could imagine his life being almost painful at times as he overflowed with creativity. Anyone who has that sort of urge will tell you it's very difficult to just switch it off, or to allow something they've thought of to just drift away. They HAVE to explore it, create it, bring it to life. Prince himself told us that he was at the extreme edge of that, and believed his time in the studio was unhealthy at one point. He also described how it was impossible for him to listen to other music without imagining how he would produce it, change it etc.

I can't even begin to understand a life where you can't just sit and enjoy music. It's one of the very few art forms the vast majority of people love in some way, and use to help boost their mood. Prince could only do that when performing or creating.

And music was what defined him. From a very young age, others and himself would have spoken about him not in terms of who he was, but what he was good at.

Like many, he had childhood traumas to deal with. Being the height and build he was, he had that to deal with too. At his absolute creative peaks, it was clear he was trying to prove something to more than just himself.

So yes, there was stories of controlling behaviour, and plenty of things people would categorise as character flaws. And much of it did deserve criticism. But it can't be easily explained by standard psychological theories, because he didn't fall into the categories that tends to cover.

From a perspective of psychology, which is simply a science trying to explain and predict human behaviour (the latter of those does contain a lot of concerns in my eyes), it's nigh on impossible to analyse Prince.

Thank you very much for your thoughts. Would you please explain what you mean by saying „much of it deserve criticism“? I just don't get, why „character flaws“ are to be critizised by us, the people who enjoyed his music. On the other hand, I witnessed that peinful concert in Cologne, 2011. If his behaviour there falls into the categorie „caharcter flaws“, I'm with you.

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Reply #17 posted 07/06/19 8:25am

Dalia11

Alxndrstff, good accurate points.
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Reply #18 posted 07/06/19 8:31am

Dalia11

NoneSuch, thanks I edited some of the words.
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Reply #19 posted 07/06/19 10:51am

Dalia11

Many people who have unresolved childhood issues with parents or experienced some form of abuse, grew up in broken homes, saw their parents fighting/abusing the other(physically, mentally, verbally)is prone to repeat what they learned/think is normal for rationships in their future relationships.

Boys who did not have a good relationship with their mother are prone to have negative or abusive relationships as adults.

Girls who did not have a good relationship with their father, grew up in a broken home was abused by one or both parents in some way, saw their parents fight, abuse the other in some way - are prone to have a dysfunctional/abusive relationship as an adult. They repeat the negative relationship they learned and think is normal.
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Reply #20 posted 07/06/19 11:03am

Dalia11

It is very likely that Prince attracted women who had unresolved childhood issues and or was abused in some way by one or both parents.

One of his ex girlfriends was Vanity. She was sexually abused by her father. I do not know if she ever got therapy to resolve that traumatic issue? Her negative experience influenced her drug use. Most people who get hooked on alcohol/drugs do that to try to forget about the pain they suffered in the past. Alcohol or drug use can also be genetic.
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Reply #21 posted 07/06/19 11:11am

benni

avatar

Dalia11 said:

Many people who have unresolved childhood issues with parents or experienced some form of abuse, grew up in broken homes, saw their parents fighting/abusing the other(physically, mentally, verbally)is prone to repeat what they learned/think is normal for rationships in their future relationships. Boys who did not have a good relationship with their mother are prone to have negative or abusive relationships as adults. Girls who did not have a good relationship with their father, grew up in a broken home was abused by one or both parents in some way, saw their parents fight, abuse the other in some way - are prone to have a dysfunctional/abusive relationship as an adult. They repeat the negative relationship they learned and think is normal.


I disagree on this point. Most people that abuse have been abused, yes, but most people that have been abused, do not grow up to abuse others. There is a distinction there and it's an important distinction to make. The majority of childhood abuse victims, grow up to be the opposite of what their parents/legal guardians were, and have a very difficult time asserting themselves. Yes, they do need control in their life, but usually that control is over themselves, more so than other people (controlling emotions, controlling their own actions/responses).

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Reply #22 posted 07/06/19 11:45am

violetcrush

Dalia11 said:

It is very likely that Prince attracted women who had unresolved childhood issues and or was abused in some way by one or both parents. One of his ex girlfriends was Vanity. She was sexually abused by her father. I do not know if she ever got therapy to resolve that traumatic issue? Her negative experience influenced her drug use. Most people who get hooked on alcohol/drugs do that to try to forget about the pain they suffered in the past. Alcohol or drug use can also be genetic.

Prince would not have known Vanity's childhood issues when he first met her. He pursued her, because he was attracted to her physical beauty. He wanted her for the girl group he was trying to create. I'm sure he did learn of her childhood struggles at a later time, but he would not have known the details upon starting a relationship with her.

*

Prince was like most men - he was a very visual person, and pursued most women based on his level of attraction to them.

*

While Vanity may have begun her drug use prior to meeting Prince, she had stated that she was very unhappy living the "Vanity persona" that Prince had created for her. She stated she felt objectified and worthless. Add to that a tumultuous relationship with a man who cannot be monogamous, and it's a recipe for drug use if you are someone who is emotionally troubled.

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Reply #23 posted 07/06/19 11:55am

RJOrion

SMH...
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Reply #24 posted 07/06/19 11:59am

Dalia11

True. It would have been nice if they did know about eachother's childhood issues, got therapy together, and help the other resolve their issues. Maybe they could have got married? Capricorn and Geminis can be a good match when they are on the same page and love the other. They were young too. Over 30 is when people are mature.
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Reply #25 posted 07/06/19 12:04pm

onlyforaminute

I'd 1st like to get to a point of separating fact from fiction before even trying to delve into his psychology. We are nowhere near that, there has been so much embellishing to make thing so much more sensationalized. Lack of understanding of culture, environment and just plain individualism mmke these exercises pretty much cringeworthy. But it is what it is. Someone obviously finds it satisfying.
Year of Return 2019
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Reply #26 posted 07/06/19 12:04pm

violetcrush

alxndrstff said:

This is only to put what I post into context instead of some sort of boast, to be clear - my experience with Psychology is only at Honours Degree level at Glasgow Uni. I'm in no way claiming to be an expert.

The biggest issue you have trying to apply any theory to someone like Prince is the sheer difference in lifestyle he had compared to the average person once fame kicked in. The pressure to be a certain way, or as Prince would often do try to confound those expectations, was huge. People reacted to him differently also. All that pretty standard stuff that happens to celebrities was there.

But then you had something more, something that doesn't always apply. Prince wasn't just a talented musician. I could imagine his life being almost painful at times as he overflowed with creativity. Anyone who has that sort of urge will tell you it's very difficult to just switch it off, or to allow something they've thought of to just drift away. They HAVE to explore it, create it, bring it to life. Prince himself told us that he was at the extreme edge of that, and believed his time in the studio was unhealthy at one point. He also described how it was impossible for him to listen to other music without imagining how he would produce it, change it etc.

I can't even begin to understand a life where you can't just sit and enjoy music. It's one of the very few art forms the vast majority of people love in some way, and use to help boost their mood. Prince could only do that when performing or creating.

And music was what defined him. From a very young age, others and himself would have spoken about him not in terms of who he was, but what he was good at.

Like many, he had childhood traumas to deal with. Being the height and build he was, he had that to deal with too. At his absolute creative peaks, it was clear he was trying to prove something to more than just himself.

So yes, there was stories of controlling behaviour, and plenty of things people would categorise as character flaws. And much of it did deserve criticism. But it can't be easily explained by standard psychological theories, because he didn't fall into the categories that tends to cover.

From a perspective of psychology, which is simply a science trying to explain and predict human behaviour (the latter of those does contain a lot of concerns in my eyes), it's nigh on impossible to analyse Prince.

It has also been speculated - by some of those who had close relationships with Prince - that he may have been on the Autistic Spectrum. He was more than just shy - he was blatantly socially awkward, and he despised being in social situations with others whom he did not know, or where he could not control the situation. Was this a result of his tumultuous childhood, or would he have been this way having experienced a loving and nurturing childhood? Hard to know for sure.

*

He was most comfortable and interactive when he was performing on a stage with his close associates. His personality did a 180 degree turn. The crowd of strangers/fans were at a distance and standing below him. He was happiest, because he could do the thing he loved the most - play his music - and also feel the adoration of the crowd, which was a huge high, and I imagine it was what helped him to forget those feelings of being unloved, teased, and alone as a child.

*

It's quite interesting though - the relationship Prince had with his Father. By many associates' accounts he revered his Father, and they were very close by the time Purple Rain was released. This was confirmed during the 1985 RS interview where his Father was a prominent feature. During his first P&M Gala show Prince stated his Father was his best friend, and he gave him his rhythm. It seems that, by the end of his life, Prince had reconciled any issues he may have had about his childhood or relationship with his Father.

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Reply #27 posted 07/06/19 12:05pm

Dalia11

Benny, good point. That is why I said prone to. If there are other positive family members around the kids that can help them learn positive things, love, compassion, using non-violence, etc.
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Reply #28 posted 07/06/19 12:09pm

violetcrush

Dalia11 said:

True. It would have been nice if they did know about eachother's childhood issues, got therapy together, and help the other resolve their issues. Maybe they could have got married? Capricorn and Geminis can be a good match when they are on the same page and love the other. They were young too. Over 30 is when people are mature.

Prince, it seems, was not the marrying kind. Also, his life was his music, and his only focus was becoming a superstar musician at that time. Yes, and the younger age was a factor as well. Susan Rogers stated she had mentioned therapy once to Prince, and he looked at her like she was crazy. I don't think he believed in resolving issues through therapy. His therapy was the recording studio smile

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Reply #29 posted 07/06/19 12:13pm

Dalia11

onlyforaminute said:

I'd 1st like to get to a point of separating fact from fiction before even trying to delve into his psychology. We are nowhere near that, there has been so much embellishing to make thing so much more sensationalized. Lack of understanding of culture, environment and just plain individualism mmke these exercises pretty much cringeworthy. But it is what it is. Someone obviously finds it satisfying.


True. And it is good to talk about psychology, childhood abuse, judging people. People have help eachother. And stop childhood abuse, abuse in general, fighting, etc.
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