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Thread started 04/08/19 11:42pm

TrivialPursuit

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Engineer Ordered to Pay $4M to Prince's Estate Over Unauthorized 'Deliverance' EP

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I thought this was already settled, but this article was posted today.
____________________

A sound engineer has been ordered to pay Prince's estate nearly $4 million for releasing an unauthorized EP of songs by the late musician, it was ruled in Minnesota federal court on Monday (April 8).


George Ian Boxill, who released the Deliverance EP to streaming services in April 2017 in violation of a contract with the late singer, was ordered to pay the artist's estate $3.96 million in an arbitration ruling handed down in August 2018. The engineer had attempted to vacate the ruling by accusing the arbitrator of misconduct and of disregarding copyright law, but the judge in the Minnesota case said there was no basis for either of those claims.

Boxill was additionally ordered to return to the estate all materials obtained through his work with Prince.

Boxill caused a stir when he announced that the six-song EP consisting of previously-unreleased material would be released through the independent label Rogue Music Alliance (RMA) on April 21, 2017, the first anniversary of Prince's death. But just hours after the title track was released on streaming services in advance of the full collection, Prince's estate and Paisley Park Enterprises filed a federal lawsuit against Boxill, claiming he was in violation of a contract he signed with the singer stating that the recordings were Prince's sole and exclusive property. They requested a temporary restraining order against the EP's release, which a judge granted, though the title track remained online for longer after RMA initially claimed the ruling did not apply to the single.

According to a press release put out in advance of Deliverance's release, Boxill claimed the recordings on the EP were cut between 2006 and 2008 when he and Prince worked together. He further stated that he had co-written and co-produced the tracks alongside the singer and spent a year completing them following his death.


Prince died in 2016 of an accidental opioid overdose. He was 57 years old.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #1 posted 04/09/19 12:54am

dustoff

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Too bad for Boxill. Despite the work that was done after Prince's death, it's really a great EP.

[Edited 4/9/19 0:54am]

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Reply #2 posted 04/09/19 1:11am

EmmaMcG

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That's kind of a shame. I know he was wrong to do what he did but the Deliverance EP is the only worthwhile posthumous release there's been.
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Reply #3 posted 04/09/19 1:15am

Kares

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It was a really stupid move from Boxill to release it in the first place in the way he did, and his claims of co-authorship and co-ownership were ridiculous. But the thing is, the 'Deliverance' EP is brilliant (despite the fact that Boxill added some tracks to the mixes) and 3 years after Prince's passing, it's still the ONLY genuine new release from the Vault (that wasn't sourced from cassettes) that we got. sad

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #4 posted 04/09/19 2:40am

RODSERLING

4 millions ?
Thé estate can't even sell 100.000 copies of PR deluxe or Piano 1983 worldwide, and they want 4 millions?
They just had to release it themselves I stead of cashing on a poor engineer.
Without him this would have never seen the light of day
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Reply #5 posted 04/09/19 3:00am

BartVanHemelen

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RODSERLING said:

4 millions ? Thé estate can't even sell 100.000 copies of PR deluxe or Piano 1983 worldwide, and they want 4 millions?

.

Because you gotta scare other chancers who were planning to do the same.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #6 posted 04/09/19 3:06am

databank

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Kares said:

It was a really stupid move from Boxill to release it in the first place in the way he did, and his claims of co-authorship and co-ownership were ridiculous. But the thing is, the 'Deliverance' EP is brilliant (despite the fact that Boxill added some tracks to the mixes) and 3 years after Prince's passing, it's still the ONLY genuine new release from the Vault (that wasn't sourced from cassettes) that we got. sad

I actually wanted to ask that: has it been established that either he did or did not co-compose the songs? Was this part of the ruling?

Thx for the info hug

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #7 posted 04/09/19 3:07am

databank

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BartVanHemelen said:

RODSERLING said:

4 millions ? Thé estate can't even sell 100.000 copies of PR deluxe or Piano 1983 worldwide, and they want 4 millions?

.

Because you gotta scare other chancers who were planning to do the same.

How do you manage to find 4M when you're a regular folk?? And what happens if you don't? eek

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #8 posted 04/09/19 3:31am

Kares

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databank said:

Kares said:

It was a really stupid move from Boxill to release it in the first place in the way he did, and his claims of co-authorship and co-ownership were ridiculous. But the thing is, the 'Deliverance' EP is brilliant (despite the fact that Boxill added some tracks to the mixes) and 3 years after Prince's passing, it's still the ONLY genuine new release from the Vault (that wasn't sourced from cassettes) that we got. sad

I actually wanted to ask that: has it been established that either he did or did not co-compose the songs? Was this part of the ruling?

Thx for the info hug

.

I haven't read the ruling, but Boxill tried to claim co-authorship on the basis of having added certain parts to the mixes, a chorus in 'Deliverance' and some synth lines in 'Man Opera', for example. He claimed that he composed those added parts so he's a composer too, but that's a ridiculous claim, it's not how it works. What he did (regardless of whether Prince asked him to do so or not) is arrangement, but arranging does not entitle you to a composer credit, arranging is simply a work-for-hire.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #9 posted 04/09/19 3:33am

Kares

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databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Because you gotta scare other chancers who were planning to do the same.

How do you manage to find 4M when you're a regular folk?? And what happens if you don't? eek

.

You go bankrupt.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #10 posted 04/09/19 3:57am

databank

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Kares said:

databank said:

I actually wanted to ask that: has it been established that either he did or did not co-compose the songs? Was this part of the ruling?

Thx for the info hug

.

I haven't read the ruling, but Boxill tried to claim co-authorship on the basis of having added certain parts to the mixes, a chorus in 'Deliverance' and some synth lines in 'Man Opera', for example. He claimed that he composed those added parts so he's a composer too, but that's a ridiculous claim, it's not how it works. What he did (regardless of whether Prince asked him to do so or not) is arrangement, but arranging does not entitle you to a composer credit, arranging is simply a work-for-hire.

I see. It makes no sense indeed, thx hug

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #11 posted 04/09/19 3:58am

databank

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Kares said:

databank said:

How do you manage to find 4M when you're a regular folk?? And what happens if you don't? eek

.

You go bankrupt.

I'm not sure I understand what it means technically.

They take everything you own, which is peanuts, then what?

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #12 posted 04/09/19 4:00am

databank

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RODSERLING said:

4 millions ? Thé estate can't even sell 100.000 copies of PR deluxe or Piano 1983 worldwide, and they want 4 millions? They just had to release it themselves I stead of cashing on a poor engineer. Without him this would have never seen the light of day

I can't remember a post you wrote that wasn't about sales lol

Why are you so obsessed with records sales? It's your right and it's cool, we all have our little obsessions, but it's an unusual one so I'd be really curious to know why eek

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #13 posted 04/09/19 4:10am

TheEnglishGent

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databank said:

RODSERLING said:

4 millions ? Thé estate can't even sell 100.000 copies of PR deluxe or Piano 1983 worldwide, and they want 4 millions? They just had to release it themselves I stead of cashing on a poor engineer. Without him this would have never seen the light of day

I can't remember a post you wrote that wasn't about sales lol

Why are you so obsessed with records sales? It's your right and it's cool, we all have our little obsessions, but it's an unusual one so I'd be really curious to know why eek


I think the point Rod was making was that the money earned from those high profile releases wouldn't have amounted to $4,000,000 yet they are claiming for that amount against the Deliverance EP.

RIP sad
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Reply #14 posted 04/09/19 4:12am

Kares

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databank said:

Kares said:

.

You go bankrupt.

I'm not sure I understand what it means technically.

They take everything you own, which is peanuts, then what?

.
I have no idea whether this court ruling is final or if it will be appealed, and of course I have no idea if Boxill is able to pay or not.
But when it does come to someone filing for bankruptcy, the law varies from state to state and it also depends on whether it's personal bankruptcy or insolvency of a legal entity. The purpose of bankruptcy is basically to find protection from the burden of debt. If a bankrupt person has properties or other assets, most of it will be sold off to pay the debtor at least in part, but there are certain parts of the assets and incomes that are protected from being taken.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #15 posted 04/09/19 4:22am

databank

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TheEnglishGent said:

databank said:

I can't remember a post you wrote that wasn't about sales lol

Why are you so obsessed with records sales? It's your right and it's cool, we all have our little obsessions, but it's an unusual one so I'd be really curious to know why eek


I think the point Rod was making was that the money earned from those high profile releases wouldn't have amounted to $4,000,000 yet they are claiming for that amount against the Deliverance EP.

I know but even if we were discussing, IDK, Prince's wardrobe or diet, ROD would still manage to slip in a reference to sales lol

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #16 posted 04/09/19 4:24am

databank

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Kares said:

databank said:

I'm not sure I understand what it means technically.

They take everything you own, which is peanuts, then what?

.
I have no idea whether this court ruling is final or if it will be appealed, and of course I have no idea if Boxill is able to pay or not.
But when it does come to someone filing for bankruptcy, the law varies from state to state and it also depends on whether it's personal bankruptcy or insolvency of a legal entity. The purpose of bankruptcy is basically to find protection from the burden of debt. If a bankrupt person has properties or other assets, most of it will be sold off to pay the debtor at least in part, but there are certain parts of the assets and incomes that are protected from being taken.
.

So basically if a regular person has to pay a 4M fine, they can just keep enough money to barely survive and any extra income has to be paid off until they die (because one doesn't make 4M in a lifetime)? eek eek eek

Better run away to Venezuela then nod

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #17 posted 04/09/19 4:39am

Kares

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databank said:

Kares said:

.
I have no idea whether this court ruling is final or if it will be appealed, and of course I have no idea if Boxill is able to pay or not.
But when it does come to someone filing for bankruptcy, the law varies from state to state and it also depends on whether it's personal bankruptcy or insolvency of a legal entity. The purpose of bankruptcy is basically to find protection from the burden of debt. If a bankrupt person has properties or other assets, most of it will be sold off to pay the debtor at least in part, but there are certain parts of the assets and incomes that are protected from being taken.
.

So basically if a regular person has to pay a 4M fine, they can just keep enough money to barely survive and any extra income has to be paid off until they die (because one doesn't make 4M in a lifetime)? eek eek eek

Better run away to Venezuela then nod

.
No, bankruptcy laws allow (under certain circumstances) the discharge of the debt so the bankrupt person is able to start a new life, but of course the bankruptcy will negatively effect your credit ratings and such.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #18 posted 04/09/19 5:02am

PURPLEIZED3121

BVH makes a good point re scaring others off. Sadly though the EP is exactly the kind of vault music we crave. It's a bloody marvellous piece of work especially Deliverance...& in places is funky as fuck!

The estate are so messed up it will be years if ever that we get to hear gems like these.

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Reply #19 posted 04/09/19 5:16am

dodger

Kares said:

databank said:

I actually wanted to ask that: has it been established that either he did or did not co-compose the songs? Was this part of the ruling?

Thx for the info hug

.

I haven't read the ruling, but Boxill tried to claim co-authorship on the basis of having added certain parts to the mixes, a chorus in 'Deliverance' and some synth lines in 'Man Opera', for example. He claimed that he composed those added parts so he's a composer too, but that's a ridiculous claim, it's not how it works. What he did (regardless of whether Prince asked him to do so or not) is arrangement, but arranging does not entitle you to a composer credit, arranging is simply a work-for-hire.

Yes, IIRC he claimed in the court papers he recorded a choir and added their vocals to The Twinz on Deliverance

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Reply #20 posted 04/09/19 5:26am

dodger

databank said:

TheEnglishGent said:


I think the point Rod was making was that the money earned from those high profile releases wouldn't have amounted to $4,000,000 yet they are claiming for that amount against the Deliverance EP.

I know but even if we were discussing, IDK, Prince's wardrobe or diet, ROD would still manage to slip in a reference to sales lol

Him and feeluup must have loved Top Trumps as kids

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Reply #21 posted 04/09/19 5:40am

darkroman

Well as we all know no Prince release (probably since the '80s) has generated 4M!

This is clearly a stunt to deter others.

However, this man can appeal and it will be easy to show this release does not have the value of 4M.

One would expect to pay back any profit made, however, he should still be able to earn what is rightfully his.

Maybe the Estate is hoping (and desperately praying) the Record Store Day cassette will generate more than 4M in revenue - oh how I laugh!

lol lol lol

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Reply #22 posted 04/09/19 6:02am

DarkKnight1

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Stupid decision to release it, but Im glad he did. I love it.

(Insert something clever here)
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Reply #23 posted 04/09/19 7:48am

donnyenglish

This is too bad. I respect him for releasing it, but I don't like that he altered it. Prince gave the record companies and the Estate an invisible deed. They are spending almost as much money as they are making trying to profit off of his work. He left a complicated web for a reason. This is all by design.

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Reply #24 posted 04/09/19 8:13am

RodeoSchro

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databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Because you gotta scare other chancers who were planning to do the same.

How do you manage to find 4M when you're a regular folk?? And what happens if you don't? eek



You don't. You're ruined.

Bart's right - this kind of award is meant to both punish the original wrong-doer, and send a message to anyone else looking to unlawfully profit from Prince's estate.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #25 posted 04/09/19 8:15am

RodeoSchro

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darkroman said:

Well as we all know no Prince release (probably since the '80s) has generated 4M!

This is clearly a stunt to deter others.

However, this man can appeal and it will be easy to show this release does not have the value of 4M.

One would expect to pay back any profit made, however, he should still be able to earn what is rightfully his.

Maybe the Estate is hoping (and desperately praying) the Record Store Day cassette will generate more than 4M in revenue - oh how I laugh!

lol lol lol




Appealing is not that easy. One must put up a bond in the amount of the award one is appealing. So, Boxill would need $4 million worth of assets he could pledge to a bonding company in order for them to write a $4 million bond. The reason is that if Boxill loses, Prince's estate would claim on the bond and get paid by the bonding company.

Therefore, no bonding company is going to put their own money at risk. They all demand collateral and if Boxill doesn't have enough collateral, then he gets no bond and cannot appeal.


.

[Edited 4/10/19 6:40am]

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #26 posted 04/09/19 8:15am

Krystalkisses

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donnyenglish said:

This is too bad. I respect him for releasing it, but I don't like that he altered it. Prince gave the record companies and the Estate an invisible deed. They are spending almost as much money as they are making trying to profit off of his work. He left a complicated web for a reason. This is all by design. p>



I never thought about it this way before but I think you are right. He was a very intelligent man and not haphazard about anything. It makes sense to me now.

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Reply #27 posted 04/09/19 8:44am

donnyenglish

Krystalkisses said:

donnyenglish said:

This is too bad. I respect him for releasing it, but I don't like that he altered it. Prince gave the record companies and the Estate an invisible deed. They are spending almost as much money as they are making trying to profit off of his work. He left a complicated web for a reason. This is all by design. p>

I never thought about it this way before but I think you are right. He was a very intelligent man and not haphazard about anything. It makes sense to me now.

Universal, Warner Brothers and others got invisible deeds. When they tried to cash in, they didn't own what they thought they owned. He appreciated the fact that he had multiple vaults in disarray and that some of the material was literally deteriorating and it would cost a lot of money to organize and restore. Prince was not going to spend his life fighitng against the industry profiting from his work and have it all be for nothing after he passed. Thus far, the industry has not generated much profit from his work. That is pure genius and by design.

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Reply #28 posted 04/09/19 9:34am

rdhull

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donnyenglish said:

Krystalkisses said:

donnyenglish said: I never thought about it this way before but I think you are right. He was a very intelligent man and not haphazard about anything. It makes sense to me now.

Universal, Warner Brothers and others got invisible deeds. When they tried to cash in, they didn't own what they thought they owned. He appreciated the fact that he had multiple vaults in disarray and that some of the material was literally deteriorating and it would cost a lot of money to organize and restore. Prince was not going to spend his life fighitng against the industry profiting from his work and have it all be for nothing after he passed. Thus far, the industry has not generated much profit from his work. That is pure genius and by design.

hmmm

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #29 posted 04/09/19 9:45am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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All I say is thanks Ian for releasing it, it was a real comfort to hear genuine 'new' music a year after P's death. The Deliverence EP was actually very good.

I think the amount, 4m is rather excessive, i doubt it could have made that much, also I think Ian's intentions were not purely selfish but altruistic, knowing the fans were desperate for music the estate weren't releasing.

However, the estate shouldn't crow about winning this but forgive him, get him on board and maybe he can help them engineer the Vault sessions. The estate need to get their act in order. If they had then we wouldn't need to rely on bootleggers or Ian to do their job for them! Releasing P&M last year was a cyncial cash in exercise with minimal effort put in. Compare what the estate have released to what Bowie's estate has released already! Even Dylan has an amazing set of releases and he's not even dead yet. I know people will say, yes it's the estate, it's legal stuff, but come on it's nearly 3 damn years now!

No more stuff we already heard but new stuff from the vault. 1999 DELUXE with a full disc of unreleased gems would be a start!

'Leggers if you're listening, please fill in the gaps with some 'new' music. 2015, 2016 and 2017 were a feast of unreleased gems but since then it all seems to have gone dead now?!

[Edited 4/9/19 9:49am]

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