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Thread started 10/16/20 9:43am

OldFriends4Sal
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Clarence Page: How hatred became all the rage in our politics


I think there are a lot of unhappy, empty people, this younger generation seems much moreso than mine in the 70s and 80s. I think hate is blinding and for some is a filler for purposelessness.
Cancel culture and lives lived out in social media(and watching others lives, but thinking the vouyer doesn't have a life) affects how people view opposing ideas and beliefs.
I think the answer is yes. But it is killing people individually at the same time.
.
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Are we Americans hating more now but enjoying it less? Let me count the ways:


Yes, I know we Americans have had our times of severe national divisions. We had a Civil War. And I remember the 1960s

...

But today's partisan divide is putting a strain on our national fabric like the first — and perhaps only — Trump-Biden debate-turned-debacle put a strain on our national eardrums.

How, we need to ask ourselves, did we get here? How did haters become all the rage in politics? Can we turn down the heat?

"Negative partisanship" is what political scientists call support for a party that is based not so much on loyalty to that party as on how much we can't stand the other party. Of course, there always has been some of this contentiousness in politics. But the divide has grown so much in recent years that, as Charlie Cook at the Cook Political Report wrote last year, "The old saying that 'I vote the person not the party,' once a commonplace belief, is now just a cliche."

...

Forty years ago, when asked to rate how "favorable and warm" their opinion of each party was, the average Democrat and Republican said they felt OK-ish about the opposite party. But for four decades now, partisans have increasingly turned against each other in an escalating cycle of dislike and distrust — views of the other party are currently at an all-time low.

These days, even the wearing — or not wearing — of a mask to reduce the spread of COVID-19 can be viewed as a political act, another sign of what political scientists call "conflict extension." That's what happens when the partisan divide becomes so great that, when it comes to romance, single people won't even date supporters of the opposite party.

Just about everyone I know can't wait for the 2020 election campaign season to end. But, as we've seen in the past, the partisan sides are so entrenched by now — with activists, social media and other factors offering aid and comfort — that the tension is not likely to end that soon.

...

(E-mail Clarence Page at cpage@chicagotribune.com.)

© 2020 CLARENCE PAGE. DISTRIBUTED BY TRIBUNE CONTENT AGENCY, LLC.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/...ocid=ientp

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Reply #1 posted 10/16/20 10:05am

jaawwnn

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I don't know why you are talking about "the younger generation" here, the majority of the younger generation supported Bernie Sanders, the partisan divide of Republican vs. Democrat largely plays out in the over 40s.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #2 posted 10/16/20 10:07am

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jaawwnn said:

I don't know why you are talking about "the younger generation" here, the majority of the younger generation supported Bernie Sanders, the partisan divide of Republican vs. Democrat largely plays out in the over 40s.

Because I'm talking about more direct experiences with politics and individuals. The older people i deal with are not 'angry'. I'm talking about personal experiences.

Political ideals are beyond Democrat and Republican voting. It's about ideals, beliefs and causes.

The article is also not just about the USA's immediate presidential vote. He's looking at an expanse of time.

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Reply #3 posted 10/16/20 10:16am

jaawwnn

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Fair enough. We have different experiences so. I look at the younger generation and I see ideals, beliefs and causes in reaction to the despair and callous disregard for humanity coming from the top of both parties.











"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #4 posted 10/16/20 10:32am

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But all youth aren't for Bernie either and AOA is problematic, but represent a specific ideal. Which is what politics does. Bernie should run under the Working Families Party.
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https://www.facebook.com/...748927828/
AOC Claims It's "Physically Impossible" to Pull Yourself Up From the Bootstraps. Black Gay Veteran-Conservative debates here.
Two younger people varying backgrounds varying ideals
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blm is a side of politics too, and in some ways 'non voters' is a political expression.

There are a lot of older people in those crowds too though lol
But you're in Ireland, what is the political climate/energy like there?

jaawwnn said:

Fair enough. We have different experiences so. I look at the younger generation and I see ideals, beliefs and causes in reaction to the despair and callous disregard for humanity coming from the top of both parties.






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#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
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Reply #5 posted 10/16/20 10:36am

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Why does it spark outrage?

.
.
Feinstein's hug of Lindsey Graham sparks outrage on the left
Alexander Bolton 14 hrs ago

Sen. Dianne Feinstein's (D-Calif.) praise of her Republican colleague, Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), which she followed with a friendly hug, is stirring outrage on the left and prompting calls by prominent liberals for her to step down as the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee...



http://www.msn.com/en-us/...ocid=ientp

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
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Reply #6 posted 10/16/20 10:51am

jaawwnn

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AOC is "problematic"?? As opposed to who? Biden? Pelosi?? Trump??? Name a politician who is not problematic. I don't agree with AOC about loads of stuff (although I 100% agree about the bootstrap thing) but that's par for the course with politicians.

Bernie was a big shot for the left, if you take the democratic party you actually have power and a chance to change things, the Working Families Party ain't gonna win anytime soon. He missed of course, c'est la vie, but he changed a lot of politics in the USA.

But you're in Ireland, what is the political climate/energy like there?

Ireland isn't too different from the USA on the big things, we import a lot of your politics, which is why I often feel obliged to follow it. The anti-mask Qanon protesting right over here are about a week behind the anti-mask Qanon protesting right in the USA (but without the guns) and the BLM stuff is everywhere amongst a lot of young people (but, uh, we're like 92% white demographically). A lot of the same problems, usually not as extreme. We're stuck inbetween Brexit Britain and Trump USA so we have to try and make do in all honesty. Lots of local flavours of problems on the smaller scale of course.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
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Reply #7 posted 10/16/20 10:55am

benni

https://www.latimes.com/n...story.html

What’s behind Republican voters’ support of Trump? Anger at Republicans

After years of raging against President Obama, unhappy conservatives have a new target for their anger and disgust: the Republicans in Congress.

The GOP seized control of the House in 2010 and four years later took the Senate. Yet even with those majorities, Republican lawmakers have failed to achieve such conservative priorities as rolling back Obamacare, their derisive name for the national healthcare law, or cracking down harder on illegal immigration.

The controversial Keystone XL oil pipeline is no closer to being built – indeed, it may soon be dead – tough antiabortion legislation has languished in the Senate, and a fiercely disputed nuclear deal with Iran seems virtually certain to take effect, despite near-unanimous opposition from Republicans in Congress.

In short, as many see it, the promise of the 2010 tea party movement and its 2014 echo have been dashed on the marble steps of the Capitol.

“People feel betrayed,” said Greg Mueller, a longtime conservative activist and campaign strategist.

“They feel like they keep working and fighting to elect Republicans to get us back to a limited government approach to life, and all they get is more spending, more taxes and people who are afraid to fight liberal Democrats.”

A big beneficiary of that frustration has been Donald Trump.

One of the curiosities of the 2016 presidential campaign has been the way the blunt-spoken billionaire surged to the top of Republican polls despite his relatively short party residence and history of statements —favoring higher taxes on the well-to-do, endorsing government-run healthcare, backing certain gun controls — at odds with so much of the party’s prevailing orthodoxy.

Trump has trimmed some of his positions and reversed others — he now opposes legal abortion, for instance — as he seeks the GOP nomination, a process he likens to Ronald Reagan’s evolution from New Deal Democrat to conservative icon (a comparison that glosses over the length and depth of Reagan’s conversion).

But Trump’s appeal is not so much about issues as attitude.

The reason for his success is simple, observers say: Trump is giving unsparing voice to the contempt many conservatives feel toward the political leadership in Washington, Democrat and Republican alike. The scorn runs so deep, it overrides whatever differences voters may have with Trump over his garish lifestyle, his patchwork philosophy or past stances on particular issues.

“They don’t see any difference between Nancy Pelosi and John Boehner, or Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell,” said Sal Russo, a longtime GOP strategist, referring to the Democratic and Republican leaders of the House and Senate.

“People are just sick and tired of politics as usual, where nothing ever changes,” said Russo, who helped engineer the rise of the tea party protest movement. “Anybody who helps them vent their frustration at the system is an appealing candidate.”

**********

I've been saying for awhile that it all started with the tea party.

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Reply #8 posted 10/16/20 11:04am

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Features|US Elections 2020

Against party lines: Democrats divided before US elections

Can progressives and moderates in the US Democratic Party find common ground in order to take back the White House?

By

Jeremy Young

13 May 2020

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On March 9, US presidential hopeful Joe Biden held a large rally at Renaissance High School in northwest Detroit. It was the eve of the Michigan primary, and Democratic Party Senators Cory Booker and Kamala Harris were in town to give the former vice president a boost.

While Biden was delivering his stump speech, multiple protests broke out in the crowd.

One man unfurled a banner that said "NAFTA killed our jobs", in reference to the North American Free Trade Agreement backed by Biden, while other protesters chanted "Hey, hey, ho, ho, Joe Biden has got to go!"

"The Bernie Bros are here," Biden murmured softly, alluding to the young, vocal fans of his then-rival, Senator Bernie Sanders.

The interruption underscored a larger dynamic playing out within the Democratic Party, which is being pulled in different directions by loyalists with very different visions for the party's future.

While making our Fault Lines film, America's Divided Democrats, we spent weeks on the campaign trail with activists and volunteers in the two places that may have mattered the most – South Carolina and Michigan.

The overall feeling among Democrats we spoke to was that the party is deeply divided and might be too splintered to unify behind Biden in November.

"He's a guy who promises a return to normalcy and a lack of, you know, sweeping change. And I don't think that message resonates with a lot of young people right now," explained Naina Agrawal-Hardin, an activist with Sunrise Movement in Michigan.

"I hope that people will be energised enough by the desire to beat Donald Trump that they show up to vote anyway, but it is a concern."

The party has largely bifurcated into two camps.

The progressive wing of the party has been led by Sanders and Senator Elizabeth Warren. They pushed for a Green New Deal to combat climate change, universal healthcare, and free college tuition.

The moderate wing of the party eventually coalesced around Biden after his blowout win in South Carolina, largely propelled by Black voters. This lane sees electability as the main selling point and thinks a centrist like Biden is the right candidate to defeat President Trump.

"I know he has a lot of support from independents. He obviously has a lot of support from Democrats," said Margie Kanner, a Detroit-based attorney and longtime Biden supporter.

"I think that is the recipe, I don't think any candidate is going to win the presidency with just the party base."

Many progressives disagree with this sentiment and feel like the party is making the same mistake it has made in the past by putting forth centrist candidates to try to win over Republicans or independents.

"A lot of moderates think you need milquetoast or weak sauce in order to attract people who are swing voters. The truth is swing voters don't like Democrats or Republicans. They feel like the whole system is corrupt," said Adam Green, a Warren supporter and progressive activist.

"If you have someone like Joe Biden as the nominee whose core brand is cutting corrupt backroom deals with politicians like Mitch McConnell or corrupt corporations, that is possibly our worst foot forward against Donald Trump."

Another major point of contention is how money influences party politics. Sanders developed a vastly different mechanism for raising funds, relying on millions of small donations as opposed to large cheques from wealthy donors. His supporters claim that relying on corporate money makes the party beholden to corporate interests.

"I think the cleavage in American politics today is money," said Faiz Shakir, the campaign manager for Sanders. "Moderates in modern-day parlance literally means reliant on corporate money, that's what it has become, [that] I will settle for some middle ground that corporate friends will like. That's what a moderate is."

"I kind of dispute the notion that these people are moderates, they are truly corporately funded," he added.

https://www.aljazeera.com...-elections

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #9 posted 10/16/20 11:13am

OldFriends4Sal
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some people are more invested, in the 'fight' others are more interested, in why the 'fight'

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #10 posted 10/16/20 6:06pm

IanRG

OldFriends4Sale said:

some people are more invested, in the 'fight' others are more interested, in why the 'fight'

.

But focus is on why the other side - be it people of different age groups, politics, race, orientations, etc. So it becomes what is wrong with your mob compared to ours.

.

Take the opening article and comments: Page is looking through rose coloured glasses. He brushes over the Civil War and the 1960s and "remembers" 1980 as not the time USA was still reeling from the follow on from Watergate, the Iran hostages, fuel shocks, stagflation and the divisiveness of the Carter years and the 1980 election. Cancel culture is nothing new except in the use of the term. People, politics and popular culture have been doing this forever. McCarthyism relied on it. The only things that have changed are 24/7 news that is mostly opinion show pandering to their audience for the oldies and the rejection of this by the youngins. As with everything, technology allows larger groups and breaksdown geographic limits and has been doing this for longer than the internet.

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Reply #11 posted 10/19/20 12:44pm

TruthBomb

It’s simple the left is unhinged and has been so since 2016

They can’t stand being decent to the other side and that’s what’s wrong

OldFriends4Sale said:


Why does it spark outrage?


.
.
Feinstein's hug of Lindsey Graham sparks outrage on the left
Alexander Bolton 14 hrs ago

Sen. Dianne Feinstein's (D-Calif.) praise of her Republican colleague, Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), which she followed with a friendly hug, is stirring outrage on the left and prompting calls by prominent liberals for her to step down as the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee...



http://www.msn.com/en-us/...ocid=ientp

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Reply #12 posted 10/19/20 6:00pm

slyjackson

TruthBomb said:

It’s simple the left is unhinged and has been so since 2016 They can’t stand being decent to the other side and that’s what’s wrong OldFriends4Sale said:


Why does it spark outrage?

.
.
Feinstein's hug of Lindsey Graham sparks outrage on the left
Alexander Bolton 14 hrs ago

Sen. Dianne Feinstein's (D-Calif.) praise of her Republican colleague, Sen. Lindsey Graham (S.C.), which she followed with a friendly hug, is stirring outrage on the left and prompting calls by prominent liberals for her to step down as the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee...

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http://www.msn.com/en-us/...ocid=ientp


SNIP - of4$
.
Be civilized
Don't create offensive, vulgar, obscene, threatening, abusive or excessively profane posts. Do not instigate, engage in, or encourage 'flame wars'. If you insult someone "jokingly", be prepared to have it not interpreted that way by the Moderators. A good general rule: "criticize ideas, not people."

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Reply #13 posted 10/19/20 7:47pm

Margot

Back in the day, Tip O'Neill, liberal speaker and Ronald Reagan, conservative, could talk with each other and come up with a fair amount of solutions.

It was Government by Debate, now it's Government by Tantrum (Both sides)

Newt Gingrich contributed mightily to the general degradation

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Reply #14 posted 10/20/20 6:41am

Empress

Margot said:

Back in the day, Tip O'Neill, liberal speaker and Ronald Reagan, conservative, could talk with each other and come up with a fair amount of solutions.

It was Government by Debate, now it's Government by Tantrum (Both sides)

Newt Gingrich contributed mightily to the general degradation

You make a terrific point and I have to agree with you on this. Trump and his henchmen have made it even worse.

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Reply #15 posted 10/20/20 7:40am

2freaky4church
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The silent hate that Page and others tolerate is the key.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #16 posted 10/21/20 3:54pm

uPtoWnNY

TruthBomb said:

It’s simple the left is unhinged and has been so since 2016 They can’t stand being decent to the other side and that’s what’s wrong

Yeah, let's ignore the nastiness and ugly remarks coming from the right over the past few decades.

You get what you give.

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Reply #17 posted 10/21/20 4:15pm

slyjackson

uPtoWnNY said:

TruthBomb said:

It’s simple the left is unhinged and has been so since 2016 They can’t stand being decent to the other side and that’s what’s wrong

Yeah, let's ignore the nastiness and ugly remarks coming from the right over the past few decades.

You get what you give.

Preach to the clowns, they need some guidance you know.

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Reply #18 posted 10/21/20 5:41pm

OldFriends4Sal
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https://www.youtube.com/w...N7s0-FuIEM


How the Left and Right Fight

How the left and right fight.
The democrats and republicans only use the most
mature communication styles when they're arguing leading up to the election.

AATXAJxOK_Tqn9CG0iKdFGz9cSPFn2fbdSrgqJQwB3ZYVQ=s88-c-k-c0xffffffff-no-rj-mo

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
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It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #19 posted 10/24/20 8:46am

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https://millichronicle.com/2019/04/opinion-lets-vote-against-hate-politics/

OPINION: Let’s vote against Hate Politics

2 mins read

by Zahed Shaikh

But in Indian scenario we start abusing the opposing party. Which leads to hate speech and sometimes leads to lynching.

Over 200 writers across the country have issued a signed appeal, saying, “Let us vote against hate politics. Let us vote for an equal and diverse India.”

The statement said: “The upcoming election finds our country at the crossroads. Our Constitution guarantees all its citizens equal rights, the freedom to eat, pray and live as they choose, freedom of expression and the right to dissent. But in the last few years, we have seen citizens being lynched or assaulted or discriminated against because of their community, caste, gender, or the region they come from”, The Hindu newspaper reported.

What is politics?

Indian politics is often described as being feisty, vibrant, colourful, controversial, debatable, provocative, all of that and more.

The art of politics lies in being successful in gathering consensus through discussion, debate and persuasion and then pushing that consensus into legislation that results in action and implementation.

What is politics of hate?

Question, dissent and debate are an essential part of politics and democracy. The ‘quality’ of democracy and politics is judged by the level of debate and dissent allowed, within the party and outside of it.

All parties are guilty of quashing dissent in any form. What is a worrying trend is that several parties are resorting to violent means whenever questioned by the people or members of their own parties.

When somebody starts questioning, the politicians start accusing and abusing him in the name of religion, nationalism, cast, creed and what not.

What is meaning of agree to disagree?

“Agree to disagree” or “agreeing to disagree” is a phrase in English referring to the resolution of a conflict (usually a debate or quarrel) whereby all parties tolerate but do not accept the opposing position(s).

It generally occurs when all sides recognise that further conflict would be unnecessary, ineffective or otherwise undesirable.

But in Indian scenario we start abusing the opposing party. Which leads to hate speech and sometimes leads to lynching.

How we can live in peace with diversity?

  • Communication is key.
  • Clarity of what people are accountable for and everyone being treated equally. Otherwise resentment will breed and fuel a “them” and “us” environment.
  • Different religions have different beliefs. Be aware and sensitive to this. It is a sign of respect and will be much appreciated.
  • Respect, tolerance and compassion should be at the core.

Zahed Shaikh is an Indian-based blogger. He regularly writes blogs at Duck Bounce Blogspot.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #20 posted 10/29/20 5:57am

OldFriends4Sal
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Margot said:

Back in the day, Tip O'Neill, liberal speaker and Ronald Reagan, conservative, could talk with each other and come up with a fair amount of solutions.

It was Government by Debate, now it's Government by Tantrum (Both sides)

Newt Gingrich contributed mightily to the general degradation

I agree, there was a huge difference in culture pre 2000s.

I think as the cyberspace age really picked up we saw more divide and anger

People always like to blame someone else for why they react to politics.

One side blamed Barack Obama the other side then blamed Pres. Donald Trump

no one concededs. Well that's not true some people do see their reaction and actions and decide to pull back.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #21 posted 10/29/20 10:16am

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#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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