independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Forum jump
Forums > Politics & Religion > COVID 19 -Europe
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 2 12>
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 09/17/20 3:32pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

COVID 19 -Europe

Have European countries been 'quarantining' by country as some US states did?
Italy took a heavy hit in the beginning of this pandemic.

https://www.msn.com/en-us...d=msedgntp

"Alarming": Europe records 54,000 virus cases in 24 hours

CBSNews 2 hrs ago
AAy3mhH.img?h=24&w=24&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&f=png"Alarming": Europe records 54,000 virus cases in 24 hours

The World Health Organization on Thursday warned of "alarming rates of transmission" of COVID-19 across Europe and cautioned against shortening quarantine periods as countries in the region scrambled to find ways to reduce infections without resorting to new lockdowns. The WHO's regional director for Europe Hans Kluge said a September surge -- Europe set a new record last week, with some 54,000 cases recorded in 24 hours -- "should serve as a wake-up call for all of us."

BB199puO.img?h=799&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=998&y=794© Dominic Lipinski / AP Britain Virus Outbreak

"Although these numbers reflect more comprehensive testing, it also shows alarming rates of transmission across the region," he told an online news conference from Copenhagen.

Kluge spoke as the number of confirmed COVID-19 cases across the globe approached 30 million, according to a tally by Johns Hopkins. More than 942,000 people worldwide have died from the virus.

Across Europe, governments are battling to contain the fresh spike in cases, while wanting to avoiding inflicting fresh damage on their economies and imposing broad new restrictions on their virus-weary populations.

In Britain, new measures will take effect Friday, with Prime Minister Boris Johnson warning that pubs may have to close earlier to help avoid a "second hump" of coronavirus cases.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
don't follow me if you're easily triggered...
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquit
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 09/18/20 6:36am

maplenpg

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

Have European countries been 'quarantining' by country as some US states did?
Italy took a heavy hit in the beginning of this pandemic.

https://www.msn.com/en-us...d=msedgntp

"Alarming": Europe records 54,000 virus cases in 24 hours

CBSNews 2 hrs ago
AAy3mhH.img?h=24&w=24&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&f=png"Alarming": Europe records 54,000 virus cases in 24 hours

The World Health Organization on Thursday warned of "alarming rates of transmission" of COVID-19 across Europe and cautioned against shortening quarantine periods as countries in the region scrambled to find ways to reduce infections without resorting to new lockdowns. The WHO's regional director for Europe Hans Kluge said a September surge -- Europe set a new record last week, with some 54,000 cases recorded in 24 hours -- "should serve as a wake-up call for all of us."

BB199puO.img?h=799&w=799&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=998&y=794© Dominic Lipinski / AP Britain Virus Outbreak

"Although these numbers reflect more comprehensive testing, it also shows alarming rates of transmission across the region," he told an online news conference from Copenhagen.

Kluge spoke as the number of confirmed COVID-19 cases across the globe approached 30 million, according to a tally by Johns Hopkins. More than 942,000 people worldwide have died from the virus.

Across Europe, governments are battling to contain the fresh spike in cases, while wanting to avoiding inflicting fresh damage on their economies and imposing broad new restrictions on their virus-weary populations.

In Britain, new measures will take effect Friday, with Prime Minister Boris Johnson warning that pubs may have to close earlier to help avoid a "second hump" of coronavirus cases.

It's a shitshow in the UK right now sad

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 09/18/20 2:27pm

luv4u

Moderator

avatar

moderator

Edmonton, AB - canada
Mod Goddess of the SNIP & BAN Making Moves - OF4S
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 09/22/20 5:19am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator



Boris Johnson tells people to work from home as the UK becomes gripped by a second coronavirus wave
apayne@businessinsider.com (Adam Payne,Thomas Colson,Adam Bienkov) 19 mins ago

Boris Johnson tells workers to stay at home if they can as the UK becomes gripped by a second coronavirus waveThis follows weeks of his government urging people in England to return to offices.Prime Minister Johnson announced the new guidance to MPs on Tuesday afternoon.His government will also introduce a 10pm curfew for pubs, bars, and restaurants.Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.Boris Johnson has urged people to work from home in order to halt a spike in coronavirus infections, just weeks after launching a back to work drive.

The UK prime minister told the House of Commons on Tuesday that the government has scrapped its push for more people in England to return to their workplaces.

"We are asking office workers who can work from home to do so," Johnson told members of Parliament.

The Prime Minister announced that in England:

Anyone able to work from home should do so immediately.Pubs, restaurants and leisure and entertainment venues must close at 10pm.Takeaway restaurants will also be affected, although food delivery can continue later.People working in hospitality and retail must wear masks.The 'rule of six' will be enforced against indoor sporting events.Weddings will be reduced to 15 guests only.Fines for non-compliance will be increased against both businesses and individuals.

"No British government would wish to stifle our freedoms in the ways we have done this year," Johnson said.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/...ocid=ientp

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
don't follow me if you're easily triggered...
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquit
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 09/22/20 6:18am

maplenpg

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:



Boris Johnson tells people to work from home as the UK becomes gripped by a second coronavirus wave
apayne@businessinsider.com (Adam Payne,Thomas Colson,Adam Bienkov) 19 mins ago

Boris Johnson tells workers to stay at home if they can as the UK becomes gripped by a second coronavirus waveThis follows weeks of his government urging people in England to return to offices.Prime Minister Johnson announced the new guidance to MPs on Tuesday afternoon.His government will also introduce a 10pm curfew for pubs, bars, and restaurants.Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.Boris Johnson has urged people to work from home in order to halt a spike in coronavirus infections, just weeks after launching a back to work drive.

The UK prime minister told the House of Commons on Tuesday that the government has scrapped its push for more people in England to return to their workplaces.

"We are asking office workers who can work from home to do so," Johnson told members of Parliament.

The Prime Minister announced that in England:

Anyone able to work from home should do so immediately.Pubs, restaurants and leisure and entertainment venues must close at 10pm.Takeaway restaurants will also be affected, although food delivery can continue later.People working in hospitality and retail must wear masks.The 'rule of six' will be enforced against indoor sporting events.Weddings will be reduced to 15 guests only.Fines for non-compliance will be increased against both businesses and individuals.

"No British government would wish to stifle our freedoms in the ways we have done this year," Johnson said.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/...ocid=ientp

Yup. In August Boris launched a major campaign to 'Get Back to Work'. We had headlines such as in the following article. Hasn't turned out too well for him has it?


https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/28/brits-warned-go-back-work-risk-losing-job-13189724/


‘Get back to work or risk losing your job’, Brits warned



Friday 28 Aug 2020 7:30 am. Boris Johnson is launching a campaign to get Brits back into office as ministers warn working from home will make them more ‘vulnerable’ to being sacked. The push to get people back into the office is set to begin after schools reopen next week. It will include reassurances on the safety of workplaces and make the ’emotional case’ for going back, including the mental health benefits of being around colleagues in person. As the UK tried to kickstart its economy following the coronavirus lockdown, the Prime Minister worries empty office buildings could slow down the nation’s recovery

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 09/22/20 6:24am

jaawwnn

avatar

It ain't great right now I can tell you that.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 09/22/20 8:28am

maplenpg

avatar

jaawwnn said:

It ain't great right now I can tell you that.

Yup, I mean it's a hell of a lesson to show us that the right leader makes a bloody big difference. Did you see this clip from today? It's embarrassing. He couldn't run a fucking tap, let alone a country. "We can't get the British to follow the rules, so we'll get on top of the virus by asking them to follow the rules" (paraphrased) rolleyes


https://twitter.com/Mike_...7708680192

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 09/22/20 8:47am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Self-isolation violators in UK will face fines up to $13,000 as coronavirus cases surge

The UK reported 3,899 COVID-19 cases and 18 additional deaths on Sunday

https://www.foxnews.com/w...Fe1AVcLTw8

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
don't follow me if you're easily triggered...
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquit
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 09/22/20 9:22am

maplenpg

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

Self-isolation violators in UK will face fines up to $13,000 as coronavirus cases surge

The UK reported 3,899 COVID-19 cases and 18 additional deaths on Sunday

https://www.foxnews.com/w...Fe1AVcLTw8

4926 cases and 37 deaths yesterday. I fear the rhetoric about lack of tests coupled with the fines rather than aid, will mean that cases will go up as those who can't afford to self-isolate don't get tested.

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 09/23/20 12:16pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator



Finland Becomes Second Country to Use COVID-Sniffing Dogs at Airport
Andrew Whalen 1 hr ago

.

Four dogs are sniffing airline passengers in Finland's Helsinki Airport in a hunt for COVID-19.

The pilot program, which began Wednesday and will be analyzed by researchers at the University of Helsinki, is expected to deliver results in about ten seconds, screening for positive coronavirus cases in less than a minute per person.

Tests will be conducted on arriving passengers, particularly those from abroad, and are conducted on a voluntary basis. Subjects don't have direct contact with the dogs, but instead use a wipe on the skin of their neck, which is brought to the dog in a separate booth. Whether the dog indicates a positive detection of COVID or not, a subsequent polymerase chain reaction test—the standard nose swab—is offered free to arriving travelers for comparative data.

Helsinki Airport introduced the COVID detection plan in a Saturday tweet, featuring a photo of a dog capable of detecting the coronavirus...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/finland-becomes-second-country-to-use-covid-sniffing-dogs-at-airport/ar-BB19lVLt?ocid=ientp

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
don't follow me if you're easily triggered...
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquit
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 09/23/20 1:45pm

Lianachan

avatar

Situation in England is extremely bad, and looking like it’s going to get a lot worse. Although also worsening, it’s not as bad in the other countries of the UK, as our devolved governments have some ability to do things differently and protect us from the criminally insane and dangerously incompetent UK government.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge"" ~ Isaac Asimov
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 09/25/20 4:10am

maplenpg

avatar

Lianachan said:

Situation in England is extremely bad, and looking like it’s going to get a lot worse. Although also worsening, it’s not as bad in the other countries of the UK, as our devolved governments have some ability to do things differently and protect us from the criminally insane and dangerously incompetent UK government.

You're right. And I'm desperately angry that they've used the crisis to get their friends rich rather than trying to control it.

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 10/06/20 4:05am

jaawwnn

avatar

Ireland National Public Health Emergency Team just recommended full lockdown again but has been overruled by the government to save the economy, although it won't save the economy I don't think.

Our hospitals are in a very fragile state at the best of times so flu season + corona part 2 is going to be a very interesting mix.

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 10/06/20 4:26am

maplenpg

avatar

jaawwnn said:

Ireland National Public Health Emergency Team just recommended full lockdown again but has been overruled by the government to save the economy, although it won't save the economy I don't think.

Our hospitals are in a very fragile state at the best of times so flu season + corona part 2 is going to be a very interesting mix.

In all honesty, I'm not sure people will support a full lockdown unless deaths rise. There seems to be an entire disconnect between the rise in cases and the lag in death numbers. It's good that deaths are still not massive, and that we can treat the virus better now than in March, but hospital rates have risen at an alarming rate recently and we must remember that deaths are not the be all and end all. Long Covid is a massive problem that is not addressed nearly enough. Plus as you say flu season hasn't hit yet. I think lethargy and fatigue among hospital staff may be a real problem in the near future too.
.
I've said it way too many times now, but I don't see how the economy can recover until the virus is no longer a threat. The only way to get there is a zero covid approach as used in many other countries, but too many people are too impatient to get back to 'normal' and the government don't seem to have any authority at all. It's a shame when bodies such as the INPHET want to be proactive and yet the government just want to take a reactive approach IMO.


Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 10/06/20 4:35am

jaawwnn

avatar

Irish hospitals are in a considerably worse state than UK ones, we hear stories of complaints of queues in the UK and if we had those kind of queues here we'd be celebrating. We cannot handle the admissions being predicted right now. Massive gamble by the government tbh, it'll wipe them out of it all goes wrong.

We were a few weeks away from having it beaten back in July but reopened too soon, but then again, we have a porous land border with the UK so I don't know if beating it was ever possible, I suspect we're going to struggle on completely hobbled until a vaccine. I have no solutions neutral

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 10/06/20 6:00am

maplenpg

avatar

jaawwnn said:

Irish hospitals are in a considerably worse state than UK ones, we hear stories of complaints of queues in the UK and if we had those kind of queues here we'd be celebrating. We cannot handle the admissions being predicted right now. Massive gamble by the government tbh, it'll wipe them out of it all goes wrong.

We were a few weeks away from having it beaten back in July but reopened too soon, but then again, we have a porous land border with the UK so I don't know if beating it was ever possible, I suspect we're going to struggle on completely hobbled until a vaccine. I have no solutions neutral

Ah okay. Did you get any Nightingale hospitals at all?

I too suspect that we'll struggle on until we get a vaccine (which I have been reading more and more could take MUCH longer than we all hope), but I think we have far too much focus on that as the end goal. I have no solutions either, but I do know that what we have right now is clearly not working.

My sister-in-law is from Thailand. They have had around 3600 cases in total, and only around 50 deaths. My brother and her usually go to Thailand for a month at Christmas, but they are deemed too high risk and therefore won't be allowed in unless they spend 14 days in an airport quarantine hotel before entering the country proper.

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 10/06/20 6:07am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator



Europe's drugs regulator speeds up the approval process for Pfizer and BioNTech's COVID-19 vaccine
insider@insider.com (Kate Duffy) 29 mins ago




© University of Maryland A volunteer receives an experimental vaccination for the coronavirus in a clinical trial at the University of Maryland's medical school. University of Maryland Europe's drugs regulator has fast-tracked the approval process for a COVID-19 vaccine developed by Germany's BioNTech and US pharmaceutical group Pfizer.

The "rolling review" by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) will potentially speed up the authorization of the vaccine.It means the EMA will not have to wait for trials to finish before reviewing data.The decision to begin the review is based on the results of earlier clinical trials that show the vaccine triggers an immune response in humans, the EMA said on Tuesday.Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

Europe's drug regulator has sped up the potential approval of a COVID-19 vaccine developed by Germany's BioNTech and US pharmaceutical group Pfizer.

A new "rolling review" launched by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) on Tuesday will evaluate how effective the vaccine is in real time as data returns from patient trails. This means the EMA will not have to wait for BioNTech and Pfizer to finish their trials and submit all the data at once.


https://www.businessinsid...515524.cms


#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
don't follow me if you're easily triggered...
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquit
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 10/06/20 7:07am

TweetyV6

avatar

jaawwnn said:

Ireland National Public Health Emergency Team just recommended full lockdown again but has been overruled by the government to save the economy, although it won't save the economy I don't think.

Our hospitals are in a very fragile state at the best of times so flu season + corona part 2 is going to be a very interesting mix.


What the feck are they so panicing about

Oct 6th 2020:

New cases: 519 (new that day) / 453.4 (7 days roling average)
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&country=~IRL&region=World&casesMetric=true&interval=smoothed&smoothing=7&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc


New Deaths: 0 (new that day) / 1.1 (7 days roling average)
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&country=~IRL&region=World&deathsMetric=true&interval=daily&smoothing=0&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

The 2nd wave is caused by a significant increase of testing with a standard false positive percentage of 2-2.5%

Have a look at this, a fellow Irishman explaining what is going wrong (hint: JUNK SCIENCE)

https://youtu.be/8UvFhIFzaac
and
https://youtu.be/LrRijSa8494

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 10/06/20 7:51am

jaawwnn

avatar

Yes, yes Tweety. Everything is fine until it isn't. Ivor Cummins is a diet evangelical quack who makes his money from blinding people with science and selling them false hope, i'll pass on his videos. Here is someone taking his data apart piece by piece if you want to argue with them.


Irish hospitals are run close to collapse most years, the simple fact is we've been running them at 95% capacity by default and by design (thank you capitalism, thank you "efficiency") so they are not able to accept the influx from Covid if it's left unchecked. People are being hospitalized in increasing numbers and you can turn up in the parking lot with your graphs and tell them that statistically they're actually ok all you like, it won't work.



[Edited 10/6/20 8:03am]

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 10/06/20 8:12am

TweetyV6

avatar

jaawwnn said:

Yes, yes Tweety. Everything is fine until it isn't. Ivor Cummins is a diet evangelical quack who makes his money from blinding people with science and selling them false hope, i'll pass on his videos. Here is someone taking his data apart piece by piece if you want to argue with them.


As usual. Comment on the person that posts it, ignore the content.
Which isn't from him but from many other scientists, he only bundles it and presents it in a youtube movie.

Irish hospitals are run close to collapse most years, the simple fact is we've been running them at 95% capacity by default and by design (thank you capitalism, thank you "efficiency") so they are not able to accept the influx from Covid if it's left unchecked. People are being hospitalized in increasing numbers and you can turn up in the parking lot with your graphs and tell them that statistically they're actually ok all you like, it won't work.


Don't blame the virus.
Blame profit driven healthcare.

All our governments have had 6 months time to upscale ICU's, seperate them from regular ICU's and have people trained. They didn't.

Here are 3 professors explaining what our governments should do: https://unherd.com/2020/1...YUGnRTHnt4

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 10/06/20 8:15am

jaawwnn

avatar

maplenpg said:

Ah okay. Did you get any Nightingale hospitals at all?

No, so a deal as struck with private hospitals that the public could use them, god knows at what cost. However, we locked down relatively fast last time so we never hit that high ceiling. The real short-term issue is dealing with a surge of cases


"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 10/06/20 8:26am

jaawwnn

avatar

TweetyV6 said:

jaawwnn said:

Yes, yes Tweety. Everything is fine until it isn't. Ivor Cummins is a diet evangelical quack who makes his money from blinding people with science and selling them false hope, i'll pass on his videos. Here is someone taking his data apart piece by piece if you want to argue with them.


As usual. Comment on the person that posts it, ignore the content.
Which isn't from him but from many other scientists, he only bundles it and presents it in a youtube movie.

I edited the post to give you someone to argue with. I'm not going to watch it, sorry, I don't need to.

Irish hospitals are run close to collapse most years, the simple fact is we've been running them at 95% capacity by default and by design (thank you capitalism, thank you "efficiency") so they are not able to accept the influx from Covid if it's left unchecked. People are being hospitalized in increasing numbers and you can turn up in the parking lot with your graphs and tell them that statistically they're actually ok all you like, it won't work.


Don't blame the virus.
Blame profit driven healthcare.

Oh i do.


All our governments have had 6 months time to upscale ICU's, seperate them from regular ICU's and have people trained. They didn't.

I agree.



Here are 3 professors explaining what our governments should do: https://unherd.com/2020/1...YUGnRTHnt4

Sure, why not, it's more or less what's happening here anyway.

[Edited 10/6/20 8:29am]

"I think people ought to know that we're anti-fascist, we're anti-violence, we're anti-racist and we're pro-creative. We're against ignorance."
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 10/06/20 9:00am

maplenpg

avatar

maplenpg said:

jaawwnn said:

Tweety said: Here are 3 professors explaining what our governments should do: https://unherd.com/2020/1...YUGnRTHnt4

Sure, why not, it's more or less what's happening here anyway.


Stupid text boxes, what is going on? Anyway, Jaawwnn, you've much more patience than me....so much wrong with that article.

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 10/06/20 10:41pm

TweetyV6

avatar

maplenpg said:

maplenpg said:

Stupid text boxes, what is going on? Anyway, Jaawwnn, you've much more patience than me....so much wrong with that article.

Such as?

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 10/07/20 5:37am

maplenpg

avatar

TweetyV6 said:

maplenpg said:

Such as?

Pretty much all of it. Let's just look at this section:


"Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent PCR testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home."


My first question would be to clarify what is meant by the word 'vulnerable'. Sure, they explicitly classify retired people and those at 'highest risk', but what about the rest? Cancer survivors?Amputees? The elderly that still work? Those that are obese? Diabetics? Smokers? The disabled? Those like my husband with an auto-immune problem? Those like Benni with thrombosis? How do you even begin to clarify who does and doesn't fit the word 'vulnerable'?

And what about all the jobs that the 'vulnerable' currently hold. Sure, some can work at home, but a great deal can't. Do we just give their jobs to someone else?

And what about the 'non-vulnerable' that don't want to put themselves at risk of death, or Long Covid? The young, or middle-aged that would prefer not to take this approach? Tough luck you're out of your jobs too unless you put yourself at risk?

And what about grandparents that suddenly can't provide childcare for their grandkids because they have to stay imprisoned indoors? So the parents have to give up their jobs as they have no childcare (or childcare is often unaffordable)?

Phew, I've not even got past the first sentence! Let's move to the second sentence:

"By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent PCR testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. "

What does this even mean? Are they supposed to employ first and foremost those that have had the virus? Even if that isn't the best person for the job? Is that going to then become the standard in other places of work? And, certainly in England, we already test nursing home staff weekly so that's nothing new. And minimizing staff rotation? Care workers are some of the hardest working people, working for very little pay. Many moved into their places of work when Covid was at its peak. They literally have no more to give. Surely their 12 hour shifts are long enough already?

I was going to carry on about imprisoning retired people like they are worthless members of society, but I won't. I'll just let the scientists speak for themselves about how bad this idea is. https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/?cli_action=1602067474.491

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 10/07/20 5:45am

maplenpg

avatar

And Tweetster, whilst we're at it, can we please put the 'no more deadly than flu' rubbish to bed please? Here's a graph for you (I know you like graphs) showing the fatality difference between the two, and that's without putting Long Covid into the equation:








https://github.com/mbevan...tified-ifr






Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 10/07/20 1:01pm

TweetyV6

avatar

maplenpg said:

And Tweetster, whilst we're at it, can we please put the 'no more deadly than flu' rubbish to bed please? Here's a graph for you (I know you like graphs) showing the fatality difference between the two, and that's without putting Long Covid into the equation:








https://github.com/mbevan...tified-ifr







The data from the red lines are calculations, so predictions from models. As indicated in the link you provided.

  • calculate the expected overall IFR based on countries' population pyramids
  • calculate the age-stratified IFR of COVID-19 from the Spanish ENE-COVID serosurvey

I stick to field data (collected in the real world) if you don't mind.

The 'Heinsberg' study result from Prof. Dr. Streeck he and his team did in the town Gangelt (only 5km. from where I live) which was the first Covid-19 hotspot in Germany, showed an IFR of 0,37%

The seasonal flu (data from the Sentinel network) has an IFR of 0,32% in case of a severe flu epidemic.

So yes, more deadly than the flu, but not significantly. And that's what you see in the over mortality rates in Europe.
See: www.euromomo.eu (also REAL data)

To give another example.
In the Netherlands during the flu season 2017/2018, 9,500 people died due to the flu. (see: https://www.rivm.nl/sites...beeld.pdf)
Covid-19 up to today has killed 6.500 people.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/cfc2084c995c40e7ae72254029bf6251

MapleNPG, you should look at actual data and not computer model predictions.
That's what got us into this mess. False predictions causing panic at the WHO and under the leaders of the countries of this world. With the exception of Sweden.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 10/07/20 1:16pm

TweetyV6

avatar

maplenpg said:

TweetyV6 said:

Such as?

Pretty much all of it. Let's just look at this section:


"Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent PCR testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home."


My first question would be to clarify what is meant by the word 'vulnerable'. Sure, they explicitly classify retired people and those at 'highest risk', but what about the rest? Cancer survivors?Amputees? The elderly that still work? Those that are obese? Diabetics? Smokers? The disabled? Those like my husband with an auto-immune problem? Those like Benni with thrombosis? How do you even begin to clarify who does and doesn't fit the word 'vulnerable'?

That's what they say: inform those who are vulnerable about their particular risk. All the categories you mention, which includes me as well, by the way I am a) obese and b) have had trombosis / lung embolisms c) high blood pressure and d) have an auto immune illness.

Still I survived Covid-19. Even at the sub-optimal condition I have, the risk still is very low to die from Covid-19 at my age (50)
The risk increases significantly when you're 75+ and have several co-morbid factors.

The approach they promote worked perfectly in Sweden.

And what about all the jobs that the 'vulnerable' currently hold. Sure, some can work at home, but a great deal can't. Do we just give their jobs to someone else?

And what about the 'non-vulnerable' that don't want to put themselves at risk of death, or Long Covid? The young, or middle-aged that would prefer not to take this approach? Tough luck you're out of your jobs too unless you put yourself at risk?

And what about grandparents that suddenly can't provide childcare for their grandkids because they have to stay imprisoned indoors? So the parents have to give up their jobs as they have no childcare (or childcare is often unaffordable)?

Phew, I've not even got past the first sentence! Let's move to the second sentence:

"By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent PCR testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. "

What does this even mean? Are they supposed to employ first and foremost those that have had the virus? Even if that isn't the best person for the job? Is that going to then become the standard in other places of work? And, certainly in England, we already test nursing home staff weekly so that's nothing new. And minimizing staff rotation? Care workers are some of the hardest working people, working for very little pay. Many moved into their places of work when Covid was at its peak. They literally have no more to give. Surely their 12 hour shifts are long enough already?

I was going to carry on about imprisoning retired people like they are worthless members of society, but I won't. I'll just let the scientists speak for themselves about how bad this idea is. https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/?cli_action=1602067474.491

It's obvious you didn't watch the interview with the 3 professors.
That's fine, but then don't ask questions that are adressed in the intwrview. Stay uninformed.

And if I read crap like this: "imprisoning retired people like they are worthless members of society" I only can roll my eyes.
People are NOT forced to do anything in their approach. It's up to the individual themselves to decide whether they want to quarantine themselves or not.
Based on the information they get regarding their risk.

What thet propagate worked near perfectly in Sweden. And it does in the rest of the world as well, but only if we lose the fear and panic.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 10/07/20 10:37pm

maplenpg

avatar

TweetyV6 said:

maplenpg said:

And Tweetster, whilst we're at it, can we please put the 'no more deadly than flu' rubbish to bed please? Here's a graph for you (I know you like graphs) showing the fatality difference between the two, and that's without putting Long Covid into the equation:


covid_vs_flu.png





https://github.com/mbevan...tified-ifr






51


MapleNPG, you should look at actual data and not computer model predictions.
That's what got us into this mess. False predictions causing panic at the WHO and under the leaders of the countries of this world. With the exception of Sweden.

Tweety, even though we have wildly different ideas about most stuff, I at least think you believe in what you write rather than just trolling, but please, NEVER tell me what I should be looking at. If I give you respect, then give it back. I have the decency to read many of your links and you often have the decency to read mine, then we reply to them, let's keep it that way rather than you telling me what I should be doing eh.

I trust the WHO.

[Edited 10/7/20 22:48pm]

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 10/07/20 10:48pm

maplenpg

avatar

Tweety said:


And if I read crap like this: "imprisoning retired people like they are worthless members of society" I only can roll my eyes.
People are NOT forced to do anything in their approach. It's up to the individual themselves to decide whether they want to quarantine themselves or not.
Based on the information they get regarding their risk.

What thet propagate worked near perfectly in Sweden. And it does in the rest of the world as well, but only if we lose the fear and panic.


Maple replied:

The reply button is making the formatting wrong again so apologise for this layout. The article you posted said, "Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. " That to me states that they should be staying indoors, even being advised against going to the shops. Of course, they could ignore the advisories, but the stress going out in and among a deadly virus runnimg throughout the country would be huge. So I call it imprisonment, you call it choice. Whatever.

And it hasn't worked near damn perfectly in Sweden, just as ignoring the rules hasn't worked near damn perfectly in the US. It's not about fear and panic, but about being sensible with the science and not overloading our hospitals (and if even the top epidemiologists can't agree and they have studied viruses all their lives, what hope have we got?).

Negativity brings us all down, Positivity lifts us all up. There is another way. The future is purple and black.
 Reply w/quote - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 2 12>
Reply   New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Politics & Religion > COVID 19 -Europe