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Thread started 09/17/19 12:04pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Trump impeachment hearings

I don’t know why I was surprised to see this live on CNN, but the hearings have begun.
I’m not sure where or how this will go, but here we go!

.

Hit the link for the story
.

Ex-campaign chief defends Trump at chaotic impeachment hearing

https://www.msn.com/en-us...ar-AAHqqNw
.

WASHINGTON — Corey Lewandowski, President Donald Trump's former campaign manager and close confidant, on Tuesday stoutly defended his former boss and lashed out at Democrats during testimony to a U.S. congressional panel considering whether to impeach Trump.

Lewandowski, who is considering running for a U.S. Senate seat from New Hampshire, tangled with Democratic members of the House of Representatives Judiciary Committee and told the panel he would refuse to answer any questions about his conversations with Trump. The president's fellow Republicans unsuccessfully sought to have the hearing adjourned shortly after it began.

Lewandowski was the first impeachment witness to appear before the committee since former Special Counsel Robert Mueller testified in July about his inquiry that detailed Russian 2016 election interference and Trump's actions to impede the investigation.

"We as a nation would be better served if elected officials like yourselves concentrated your efforts to combat the true crises facing our country as opposed to going down rabbit holes like this hearing," Lewandowski said in his opening remarks to the Democratic-led panel.
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Reply #1 posted 09/17/19 12:17pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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When asked if he was the “lookout man” for Trump


He’s said
“I think I’m a good looking man” lol
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Reply #2 posted 09/17/19 12:20pm

guitarslinger4
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"We as a nation would be better served if elected officials like yourselves concentrated your efforts to combat the true crises facing our country as opposed to going down rabbit holes like this hearing," Lewandowski said in his opening remarks to the Democratic-led panel.



He's right though. Instead of grooming candidates to beat Trump, coming up with policy, and trying to craft a compelling message, this is what they're wasting their time with. The Democrats are a meme party, this shit is why we need more than 2 viable political parties in the US.

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Reply #3 posted 09/17/19 12:27pm

2elijah

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What? Just seeing this. Had no idea Thanks.
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Reply #4 posted 09/17/19 12:34pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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guitarslinger44 said:


"We as a nation would be better served if elected officials like yourselves concentrated your efforts to combat the true crises facing our country as opposed to going down rabbit holes like this hearing," Lewandowski said in his opening remarks to the Democratic-led panel.






He's right though. Instead of grooming candidates to beat Trump, coming up with policy, and trying to craft a compelling message, this is what they're wasting their time with. The Democrats are a meme party, this shit is why we need more than 2 viable political parties in the US.



That’s not a compelling argument though, it would be a dereliction of duty if people didn’t investigate when they believed wrongdoing had occurred only because someone objected. Especially someone under the legal microscope.
.
Do I think this is partisan? Yes
.
Do I believe that they should investigate if they see wrongdoing? Yes.
.
Nancy Pelosi who’s judgement I trust, didn’t think this was a good idea. I would have taken her recommendation. But I’m not against others pursuing this. They may get clarification, completely vindicate Trump, find that there was wrongdoing or it may blow up in their face.
.
If it blows up in their face, then Trump can gloat. I have no problem with this.
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Reply #5 posted 09/17/19 12:37pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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2elijah said:

What? Just seeing this. Had no idea Thanks.

.
Right? I’m glad I wasn’t the only one.
[Edited 9/17/19 13:09pm]
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Reply #6 posted 09/17/19 12:38pm

guitarslinger4
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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

guitarslinger44 said:



He's right though. Instead of grooming candidates to beat Trump, coming up with policy, and trying to craft a compelling message, this is what they're wasting their time with. The Democrats are a meme party, this shit is why we need more than 2 viable political parties in the US.

That’s not a compelling argument though, it would be a dereliction of duty if people didn’t investigate when they believed wrongdoing had occurred only because someone objected. Especially someone under the legal microscope. . Do I think this is partisan? Yes . Do I believe that they should investigate if they see wrongdoing? Yes. . Nancy Pelosi who’s judgement I trust, didn’t think this was a good idea. I would have taken her recommendation. But I’m not against others pursuing this. They may get clarification, completely vindicate Trump, find that there was wrongdoing or it may blow up in their face. . If it blows up in their face, then Trump can gloat. I have no problem with this.


I would be ok with it if it seemed like they actually HAD something, but it just seems like they're just shooting in the dark hoping to hit something and doing it to be petty. I thought Clinton being impeached was dumb, but he perjured himself and gave them something. This seems like they're appealing to idiots on Twitter.

Besides, I think it's a bad look for Congress to remove the president when it's really the electorate's job.

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Reply #7 posted 09/17/19 12:38pm

RodeoSchro

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guitarslinger44 said:

"We as a nation would be better served if elected officials like yourselves concentrated your efforts to combat the true crises facing our country as opposed to going down rabbit holes like this hearing," Lewandowski said in his opening remarks to the Democratic-led panel.



He's right though. Instead of grooming candidates to beat Trump, coming up with policy, and trying to craft a compelling message, this is what they're wasting their time with. The Democrats are a meme party, this shit is why we need more than 2 viable political parties in the US.




The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to do nothing.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #8 posted 09/17/19 12:39pm

DiminutiveRock
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This is good. If any glaring evidence or withness testimony is especially incendiary - it is good that a public hearing wl reveal such information.

Carry on, Congress. Let the Dem candidates and their campaigns worry about presenting alternatively better policies than the current adminstration and convincing voters.

"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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Reply #9 posted 09/17/19 12:48pm

guitarslinger4
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RodeoSchro said:

guitarslinger44 said:



He's right though. Instead of grooming candidates to beat Trump, coming up with policy, and trying to craft a compelling message, this is what they're wasting their time with. The Democrats are a meme party, this shit is why we need more than 2 viable political parties in the US.




The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to do nothing.


nuts

lol lol lol

This is where you lose, by thinking this is about good vs evil when really it's just business.

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Reply #10 posted 09/17/19 1:00pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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RodeoSchro said:

guitarslinger44 said:



He's right though. Instead of grooming candidates to beat Trump, coming up with policy, and trying to craft a compelling message, this is what they're wasting their time with. The Democrats are a meme party, this shit is why we need more than 2 viable political parties in the US.




The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to do nothing.


Correct. Carry on with the hearings.

"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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Reply #11 posted 09/17/19 1:18pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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May very well help him
No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #12 posted 09/17/19 2:13pm

RodeoSchro

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guitarslinger44 said:

RodeoSchro said:




The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men and women to do nothing.


nuts

lol lol lol

This is where you lose, by thinking this is about good vs evil when really it's just business.



You and I don't do business the same way.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #13 posted 09/17/19 2:18pm

guitarslinger4
4

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RodeoSchro said:

guitarslinger44 said:


nuts

lol lol lol

This is where you lose, by thinking this is about good vs evil when really it's just business.



You and I don't do business the same way.


No, and that's ok.
I don't like Trump, and I think he's dumb, but evil? No.

[Edited 9/17/19 14:19pm]

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Reply #14 posted 09/17/19 3:36pm

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For those that want, you can watch it here too (or on replay) https://www.youtube.com/w...YDOM4lGX1M

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Reply #15 posted 09/17/19 9:05pm

benni

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The reasons Democrats are having impeachment hearings is to determine whether there is enough evidence to actually impeach Trump. So yes, it may seem like a "fishing expedition" but they want to have concrete evidence before actually starting the impeachment process, because otherwise, the Democrats will hang themselves on this.

What we do know is that Mueller laid out evidence of obstruction in his report. What Mueller didn't do was determine whether or not Trump was "guilty" of that obstruction. I think Mueller believed that it could go either way, but that it was in the hands of the House to make the determination which way to go.

Barr jumped the gun and came out with what we now know is a false statement as to what the Mueller report actually said. He wanted to be the one to shape the story that resulted from the Mueller report, and give Trump his "no obstruction, no collusion" talking point. But the Mueller report does not say that.

So the Democrats have to take what they know is in the Mueller report and prove that yes, Trump did obstruct justice before they actually start impeachment.

Problem is, Trump continues to shape the way these testimonies are going to go, by telling aides to ignore the Subpoenas or to not discuss anything outside of what is actually in the Mueller report.

The problem is that by using "Executive Privilege" to deny someone from answering questions to the House Committees under a Congressional Subpoena is not actually against the law. This becomes more of a political issue between the president and Congress, and they must either negotiate together (which we know Trump is not going to negotiate in this matter) and the House Committees must then choose their battles wisely.

It doesn't mean Congress doesn't have any teeth in this matter, because they can hold someone in contempt if they do not comply with the Subpoena, in which Trump does not cite Executive Privilege, which it then becomes a legal matter:


"Congress has three formal methods by which it can combat non-compliance with a duly issued subpoena. Each of these methods invokes the authority of a separate branch of government. First, the long dormant inherent contempt power permits Congress to rely on its own constitutional authority to detain and imprison a contemnor until the individual complies with congressional demands. Second, the criminal contempt statute permits Congress to certify a contempt citation to the executive branch for the criminal prosecution of the contemnor. Finally, Congress may rely on the judicial branch to enforce a congressional subpoena. Under this procedure, Congress may seek a civil judgment from a federal court declaring that the individual in question is legally obligated to comply with the congressional subpoena." (Here is a good article that was written 1/30/19: https://www.lawfareblog.c...n-branches)

Except that Trump is claiming Executive Privilege on everything related to this investigation, except what is actually in the Mueller report and is in the public domain. They already know the answers to everything in the Mueller report, as Mueller laid it out pretty good. But if they want details that weren't exactly spelled out in the Mueller report, to present as evidence that Trump did obstruct justice, they may not get it because Trump has claimed Executive Privilege pretty much across the board.

So unfortunately, Congress does have to fish during these investigations, to see if someone they are questioning will mess up and answer the question, and not respond with the Lewandowski reply of "I can't comment on private conversations. The president has reserved executive privilege."

It does make it appear, however, that Trump has something to hide and gives the appearance of continued obstruction. But to Trump supporters, it's "Hey, he's within his right to do this and it's a witch hunt anyway."


[Edited 9/17/19 21:08pm]

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Reply #16 posted 09/18/19 5:08am

poppys

RodeoSchro said:


You and I don't do business the same way.


Exactly. The Trumpian vision is spreading like a virus. Now the governance of people's lives is "business".

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #17 posted 09/18/19 5:13am

poppys

benni said:

The reasons Democrats are having impeachment hearings is to determine whether there is enough evidence to actually impeach Trump. So yes, it may seem like a "fishing expedition" but they want to have concrete evidence before actually starting the impeachment process, because otherwise, the Democrats will hang themselves on this.

What we do know is that Mueller laid out evidence of obstruction in his report. What Mueller didn't do was determine whether or not Trump was "guilty" of that obstruction. I think Mueller believed that it could go either way, but that it was in the hands of the House to make the determination which way to go.

Barr jumped the gun and came out with what we now know is a false statement as to what the Mueller report actually said. He wanted to be the one to shape the story that resulted from the Mueller report, and give Trump his "no obstruction, no collusion" talking point. But the Mueller report does not say that.

So the Democrats have to take what they know is in the Mueller report and prove that yes, Trump did obstruct justice before they actually start impeachment.

Problem is, Trump continues to shape the way these testimonies are going to go, by telling aides to ignore the Subpoenas or to not discuss anything outside of what is actually in the Mueller report.

The problem is that by using "Executive Privilege" to deny someone from answering questions to the House Committees under a Congressional Subpoena is not actually against the law. This becomes more of a political issue between the president and Congress, and they must either negotiate together (which we know Trump is not going to negotiate in this matter) and the House Committees must then choose their battles wisely.

It doesn't mean Congress doesn't have any teeth in this matter, because they can hold someone in contempt if they do not comply with the Subpoena, in which Trump does not cite Executive Privilege, which it then becomes a legal matter:


"Congress has three formal methods by which it can combat non-compliance with a duly issued subpoena. Each of these methods invokes the authority of a separate branch of government. First, the long dormant inherent contempt power permits Congress to rely on its own constitutional authority to detain and imprison a contemnor until the individual complies with congressional demands. Second, the criminal contempt statute permits Congress to certify a contempt citation to the executive branch for the criminal prosecution of the contemnor. Finally, Congress may rely on the judicial branch to enforce a congressional subpoena. Under this procedure, Congress may seek a civil judgment from a federal court declaring that the individual in question is legally obligated to comply with the congressional subpoena." (Here is a good article that was written 1/30/19: https://www.lawfareblog.c...n-branches)

Except that Trump is claiming Executive Privilege on everything related to this investigation, except what is actually in the Mueller report and is in the public domain. They already know the answers to everything in the Mueller report, as Mueller laid it out pretty good. But if they want details that weren't exactly spelled out in the Mueller report, to present as evidence that Trump did obstruct justice, they may not get it because Trump has claimed Executive Privilege pretty much across the board.

So unfortunately, Congress does have to fish during these investigations, to see if someone they are questioning will mess up and answer the question, and not respond with the Lewandowski reply of "I can't comment on private conversations. The president has reserved executive privilege."

It does make it appear, however, that Trump has something to hide and gives the appearance of continued obstruction. But to Trump supporters, it's "Hey, he's within his right to do this and it's a witch hunt anyway."


Thank you for a post of substance and sanity benni.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #18 posted 09/18/19 5:34am

2elijah

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Benni said:
It does make it appear, however, that Trump has something to hide and gives the appearance of continued obstruction. But to Trump supporters, it's "Hey, he's within his right to do this and it's a witch hunt anyway."


[Edited 9/17/19 21:08pm]




Agree. No matter how wrong he is, his supporters will always give him a pass, and by doing so, they contribute to condoning his lies, behavior and racist rhetoric, yet if this were democrats doing the same, trump supporters would have no problem calling them out.
[Edited 9/18/19 5:36am]
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Reply #19 posted 09/18/19 5:29pm

DiminutiveRock
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2elijah said:

Benni said:
It does make it appear, however, that Trump has something to hide and gives the appearance of continued obstruction. But to Trump supporters, it's "Hey, he's within his right to do this and it's a witch hunt anyway."


[Edited 9/17/19 21:08pm]

Agree. No matter how wrong he is, his supporters will always give him a pass, and by doing so, they contribute to condoning his lies, behavior and racist rhetoric, yet if this were democrats doing the same, trump supporters would have no problem calling them out. [Edited 9/18/19 5:36am]

Exactly.

"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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Reply #20 posted 09/18/19 5:30pm

DiminutiveRock
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poppys said:

benni said:

The reasons Democrats are having impeachment hearings is to determine whether there is enough evidence to actually impeach Trump. So yes, it may seem like a "fishing expedition" but they want to have concrete evidence before actually starting the impeachment process, because otherwise, the Democrats will hang themselves on this.

What we do know is that Mueller laid out evidence of obstruction in his report. What Mueller didn't do was determine whether or not Trump was "guilty" of that obstruction. I think Mueller believed that it could go either way, but that it was in the hands of the House to make the determination which way to go.

Barr jumped the gun and came out with what we now know is a false statement as to what the Mueller report actually said. He wanted to be the one to shape the story that resulted from the Mueller report, and give Trump his "no obstruction, no collusion" talking point. But the Mueller report does not say that.

So the Democrats have to take what they know is in the Mueller report and prove that yes, Trump did obstruct justice before they actually start impeachment.

Problem is, Trump continues to shape the way these testimonies are going to go, by telling aides to ignore the Subpoenas or to not discuss anything outside of what is actually in the Mueller report.

The problem is that by using "Executive Privilege" to deny someone from answering questions to the House Committees under a Congressional Subpoena is not actually against the law. This becomes more of a political issue between the president and Congress, and they must either negotiate together (which we know Trump is not going to negotiate in this matter) and the House Committees must then choose their battles wisely.

It doesn't mean Congress doesn't have any teeth in this matter, because they can hold someone in contempt if they do not comply with the Subpoena, in which Trump does not cite Executive Privilege, which it then becomes a legal matter:


"Congress has three formal methods by which it can combat non-compliance with a duly issued subpoena. Each of these methods invokes the authority of a separate branch of government. First, the long dormant inherent contempt power permits Congress to rely on its own constitutional authority to detain and imprison a contemnor until the individual complies with congressional demands. Second, the criminal contempt statute permits Congress to certify a contempt citation to the executive branch for the criminal prosecution of the contemnor. Finally, Congress may rely on the judicial branch to enforce a congressional subpoena. Under this procedure, Congress may seek a civil judgment from a federal court declaring that the individual in question is legally obligated to comply with the congressional subpoena." (Here is a good article that was written 1/30/19: https://www.lawfareblog.c...n-branches)

Except that Trump is claiming Executive Privilege on everything related to this investigation, except what is actually in the Mueller report and is in the public domain. They already know the answers to everything in the Mueller report, as Mueller laid it out pretty good. But if they want details that weren't exactly spelled out in the Mueller report, to present as evidence that Trump did obstruct justice, they may not get it because Trump has claimed Executive Privilege pretty much across the board.

So unfortunately, Congress does have to fish during these investigations, to see if someone they are questioning will mess up and answer the question, and not respond with the Lewandowski reply of "I can't comment on private conversations. The president has reserved executive privilege."

It does make it appear, however, that Trump has something to hide and gives the appearance of continued obstruction. But to Trump supporters, it's "Hey, he's within his right to do this and it's a witch hunt anyway."


Thank you for a post of substance and sanity benni.

Yes, thanks, Benni

"Families are torn apart, men women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find their parents have gone missing." - Anne Frank
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Reply #21 posted 09/19/19 4:11am

OnlyNDaUsa

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For one even if they can issue an enforceable subpoena no one can be compelled to answer any questions.


Second: to obstruction: discussing how they are going to approach false charges is not obstruction.

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #22 posted 09/19/19 5:03am

2elijah

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DiminutiveRocker said:



2elijah said:


Benni said:
It does make it appear, however, that Trump has something to hide and gives the appearance of continued obstruction. But to Trump supporters, it's "Hey, he's within his right to do this and it's a witch hunt anyway."



[Edited 9/17/19 21:08pm]



Agree. No matter how wrong he is, his supporters will always give him a pass, and by doing so, they contribute to condoning his lies, behavior and racist rhetoric, yet if this were democrats doing the same, trump supporters would have no problem calling them out. [Edited 9/18/19 5:36am]


Exactly.


Sadly, many of them love his racist rhetoric, because he confirms the racial bias that’s already embedded in their twisted minds, and he says out loud, what they say behind closed doors.
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Reply #23 posted 09/22/19 7:40am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Democrats’ Refusal To Impeach Trump Is A ‘National Scandal’

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has repeatedly pushed back on her fellow Democrats’ calls to impeach the president.
https://m.huffpost.com/us...9d472a95f5

.
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) took aim at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Saturday, calling the Democratic Party’s reluctance to impeach President Donald Trump a “national scandal.”

“At this point, the bigger national scandal isn’t the president’s lawbreaking behavior ― it is the Democratic Party’s refusal to impeach him,” Ocasio-Cortez tweeted late Saturday.
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Reply #24 posted 09/22/19 8:14am

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

DiminutiveRocker said:



2elijah said:


Benni said:
It does make it appear, however, that Trump has something to hide and gives the appearance of continued obstruction. But to Trump supporters, it's "Hey, he's within his right to do this and it's a witch hunt anyway."



[Edited 9/17/19 21:08pm]



Agree. No matter how wrong he is, his supporters will always give him a pass, and by doing so, they contribute to condoning his lies, behavior and racist rhetoric, yet if this were democrats doing the same, trump supporters would have no problem calling them out. [Edited 9/18/19 5:36am]


Exactly.


Sadly, many of them love his racist rhetoric, because he confirms the racial bias that’s already embedded in their twisted minds, and he says out loud, what they say behind closed doors.


True. I DO consider Trump to be an EVIL man, since so many of her policies and actions are rooted in and come from a place of hatred and violence, and from a place of greed and mendacity
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Reply #25 posted 09/22/19 9:14am

OnlyNDaUsa

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2elijah said:

DiminutiveRocker said:

Exactly.

Sadly, many of them love his racist rhetoric, because he confirms the racial bias that’s already embedded in their twisted minds, and he says out loud, what they say behind closed doors.

for many it is called the ration ability to balance... there is NOTHING trump has ever done that is not also an issue for biden and bill or hillary clinton. But some can not even admit their issues.

can anyone here admit the best evidence of russian interference was created by team hillary? basically team hillary started a rumor and used that to create an investigation an are now using what is perfectly normal discussions of how to address these accusations and inventing obstruction!

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #26 posted 09/22/19 10:09am

poppys

jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said:

Sadly, many of them love his racist rhetoric, because he confirms the racial bias that’s already embedded in their twisted minds, and he says out loud, what they say behind closed doors.

True. I DO consider Trump to be an EVIL man, since so many of her policies and actions are rooted in and come from a place of hatred and violence, and from a place of greed and mendacity


Yes. and while Rome is burning, people fault the fire department and pretend the arsonist is not the problem. I guess EVIL is that impressive.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #27 posted 09/22/19 11:50am

jjhunsecker

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Biden has said stupid things because he's an old White man who was raised in a different time and has not fully gotten with the program of the 21st Century America. I don't think anything he's said has been out of malice or hatred.

Trump, on the other hand, helped propel the "birther" lie in an attempt to demean the first Black President, was the owner of real estate that he and his family refused to rent to minorities and was sued by the Nixon Justice Department, wanted to ban millions of people from entering the United States purely on the basis of what deity the choose to believe in, said a sworn Judge would be unable to do his job strictly because of his ethnic background, demanded that Black employees of his casino be taken off the floor and away from their jobs to appease racist customers, and said that a violent racist and anti-Semitic mob contained some "very fine people "... among numerous other transgressions.

So, there is no real comparison between Biden and Trump, no matter what false equivalencies are floated
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Reply #28 posted 09/22/19 3:01pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

Biden has said stupid things because he's an old White man who was raised in a different time and has not fully gotten with the program of the 21st Century America. I don't think anything he's said has been out of malice or hatred. Trump, on the other hand, helped propel the "birther" lie in an attempt to demean the first Black President, was the owner of real estate that he and his family refused to rent to minorities and was sued by the Nixon Justice Department, wanted to ban millions of people from entering the United States purely on the basis of what deity the choose to believe in, said a sworn Judge would be unable to do his job strictly because of his ethnic background, demanded that Black employees of his casino be taken off the floor and away from their jobs to appease racist customers, and said that a violent racist and anti-Semitic mob contained some "very fine people "... among numerous other transgressions. So, there is no real comparison between Biden and Trump, no matter what false equivalencies are floated

that was not what I was doing... but you prove my point. you deafened biden for his bigoted comments and you defended maher for his racism and you also have a history of using ethnic slurs here on the org.... I always call them out. Always, every time...

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #29 posted 09/23/19 6:13am

poppys

pig diarrhea vomit

politics: the art or science of government.
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