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Thread started 05/17/19 12:16pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Missouri's GOP-led Legislature passes 8-week abortion ban

and it continues

* women need to leave these states, stop having sex until you do...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/...ocid=ientp

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — Missouri's Republican-led House on Friday passed sweeping legislation designed to survive court challenges, which would ban abortions at eight weeks of pregnancy.

If enacted, the ban would be among the most restrictive in the U.S. It includes exceptions for medical emergencies, but not for pregnancies caused by rape or incest. Doctors would face five to 15 years in prison for violating the eight-week cutoff. Women who receive abortions wouldn't be prosecuted.

Republican Gov. Mike Parson is expected to sign the bill .

Abortion-rights supporters in the House chanted, "when you lie, people die" and "women's rights are human rights" before being escorted from the chamber. Outside, they shouted "shame, shame, shame" after lawmakers voted 110-44 for the bill.

Several women dressed as characters from the "The Handmaid's Tale" watched the debate silently. The Margaret Atwood book and subsequent Hulu TV series depicts a dystopian future where fertile women are forced to breed.The Missouri legislation comes after Alabama's governor signed a bill Wednesday making performing an abortion a felony in nearly all cases.

Supporters say the Alabama bill is meant to conflict with the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that legalized abortion nationally in hopes of sparking a court case that might prompt the current panel of more conservative justices to revisit abortion rights.

Missouri Republicans are taking a different approach.

GOP Rep. Nick Schroer said his legislation is "made to withstand judicial challenges and not cause them."

"While others are zeroing in on ways to overturn Roe v. Wade and navigate the courts as quickly as possible, that is not our goal," Schroer said. "However, if and when that fight comes we will be fully ready. This legislation has one goal, and that goal is to save lives."

Kentucky , Mississippi , Ohio and Georgia also have approved bans on abortion once fetal cardiac activity can be detected, which can occur in about the sixth week of pregnancy. Some of those laws already have been challenged in court , and similar restrictions in North Dakota and Iowa previously were struck down by judges.

Missouri's bill also includes an outright ban on abortions except in cases of medical emergencies. But unlike Alabama's, it would kick in only if Roe v. Wade is overturned.

If courts don't allow Missouri's proposed eight-week ban to take effect, the bill includes a ladder of less-restrictive time limits that would prohibit abortions at 14, 18 or 20 weeks or pregnancy.

"Laundry, bleach, acid bitter, concoction, knitting needles, bicycle spokes, ballpoint pens, jumping from the top of the stairs or the roof," Democratic Rep. Sarah Unsicker told colleagues on the House floor. "These are ways that women around the world who don't have access to legal abortions perform their own."

A total of 3,903 abortions occurred in Missouri in 2017, the last full year for which the state Department of Health and Senior Services has statistics online. Of those, 1,673 occurred at under nine weeks and 119 occurred at 20 weeks or later in a pregnancy.

About 2,900 abortions occurred in 2018, according to the agency.

The wide-ranging bill also bans abortions based solely on race, sex or a diagnosis indicating the potential for Down Syndrome.

It also requires a parent or guardian giving written consent for a minor to get an abortion to first notify the other parent, except if the other parent has been convicted of a violent or sexual crime, is subject to a protection order or is "habitually in an intoxicated or drugged condition." A change was made after hours of late-night negotiations in the state Senate to also remove the requirement when the other parent lacks legal or physical custody.


http://prince.org/msg/105/459371

Highly Controversial Topic: GA and Alabama pass anti-abortion bills, Ohio trying

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

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Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
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Reply #1 posted 05/17/19 1:27pm

PennyPurple

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It sucks.

A good portion of Missouri is in the Bible Belt section. There is suppose to be a separation of Church and State.

I've fired off e-mails, facebooked, called, written letters etc. It is of no use. The Gov. has already said he supports this and will sign it. sad


Nobody can tell me there isn't a war on women.


I'm not advocating for abortion, I'm advocating for women to be able to make their own choice.

This doesn't concern my body at all, because quite frankly I'm above the child bearing age. lol

But I'll be damned if I'll sit back and do nothing about keeping this right for my daughters, nieces, or any other female.


Leave women alone. Stop trying to control us, and our bodies. Why is it so hard?

[Edited 5/17/19 13:38pm]

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Reply #2 posted 05/17/19 1:42pm

benni

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This is my home state, where I was raised, where I was abused. When I reported the abuse, I wasn't believed and sent back to live with family. They do not care about saving lives. And there is not one person in Jeff City that will convince me they do.

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Reply #3 posted 05/17/19 2:47pm

2elijah

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PennyPurple said:

It sucks.


A good portion of Missouri is in the Bible Belt section. There is suppose to be a separation of Church and State.


I've fired off e-mails, facebooked, called, written letters etc. It is of no use. The Gov. has already said he supports this and will sign it. sad



Nobody can tell me there isn't a war on women.



I'm not advocating for abortion, I'm advocating for women to be able to make their own choice.


This doesn't concern my body at all, because quite frankly I'm above the child bearing age. lol


But I'll be damned if I'll sit back and do nothing about keeping this right for my daughters, nieces, or any other female.



Leave women alone. Stop trying to control us, and our bodies. Why is it so hard?

[Edited 5/17/19 13:38pm]


Definitely a war on women. This abortion issue will backfire on a lot of repubs.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #4 posted 05/17/19 2:50pm

2elijah

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Boycott these states. No conventions, no touring, no hotel stays, no eating at popular restaurants, shop online in another state that do not have these laws. Yes it will hurt many lower and middle class, but it’s worth the fight in the end. Women can’t allow a reality handmaid’s tale to happen.
If you live in one of these states, vote those repubs out of office when an election is held.
[Edited 5/17/19 14:53pm]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #5 posted 05/17/19 3:20pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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2elijah said:

Boycott these states. No conventions, no touring, no hotel stays, no eating at popular restaurants, shop online in another state that do not have these laws. Yes it will hurt many lower and middle class, but it’s worth the fight in the end. Women can’t allow a reality handmaid’s tale to happen. If you live in one of these states, vote those repubs out of office when an election is held.

yeahthat

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #6 posted 05/17/19 3:44pm

EmmaMcG

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Growing up, I used to think that America was a forward thinking nation. At least, in relation to Ireland anyway. But the rise in racism, the prick in the White House and now this abortion shit... It genuinely seems like your country is going backwards.
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Reply #7 posted 05/17/19 3:58pm

uPtoWnNY

EmmaMcG said:

Growing up, I used to think that America was a forward thinking nation. At least, in relation to Ireland anyway. But the rise in racism, the prick in the White House and now this abortion shit... It genuinely seems like your country is going backwards.

Look at our history - America's never been a forward-thinking nation.

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Reply #8 posted 05/17/19 3:59pm

uPtoWnNY

2elijah said:

Boycott these states. No conventions, no touring, no hotel stays, no eating at popular restaurants, shop online in another state that do not have these laws. Yes it will hurt many lower and middle class, but it’s worth the fight in the end. Women can’t allow a reality handmaid’s tale to happen. If you live in one of these states, vote those repubs out of office when an election is held. [Edited 5/17/19 14:53pm]

Hit 'em in the pocketbook. That's the only language these clowns understand.

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Reply #9 posted 05/17/19 4:04pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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EmmaMcG said:

Growing up, I used to think that America was a forward thinking nation. At least, in relation to Ireland anyway. But the rise in racism, the prick in the White House and now this abortion shit... It genuinely seems like your country is going backwards.

sigh to many of us too.

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #10 posted 05/17/19 5:23pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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EmmaMcG said:

Growing up, I used to think that America was a forward thinking nation. At least, in relation to Ireland anyway. But the rise in racism, the prick in the White House and now this abortion shit... It genuinely seems like your country is going backwards.

Actually it really is. If you look at the country state by state. Pick a state the size/population of Ireland and compare it to states in the USA.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #11 posted 05/17/19 6:36pm

PennyPurple

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In 1919 women got the right to vote. In 2019 women lost the rights to their bodies and didn't even get to vote on the matter.

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Reply #12 posted 05/17/19 6:42pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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PennyPurple said:

In 1919 women got the right to vote. In 2019 women lost the rights to their bodies and didn't even get to vote on the matter.

100 years from now maybe they will say 1919 woman got the right to vote and 2019 babies got the right to be born and in 2119 robots got the right to get married.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #13 posted 05/18/19 6:36am

2freaky4church
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Silly comment of the week, we have a winner. A fetus does not yet have personhood.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #14 posted 05/18/19 7:44am

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

Silly comment of the week, we have a winner. A fetus does not yet have personhood.

yeah and in in 1789 neither were Slaves.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #15 posted 05/18/19 7:58am

benni

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Silly comment of the week, we have a winner. A fetus does not yet have personhood.

yeah and in in 1789 neither were Slaves.


An embryo born at six weeks, we do not say, "I gave birth to my baby at 6 weeks" we say, "I miscarried at 6 weeks."
An embryo born at eight weeks, we do not say, "I gave birth to my baby at 8 weeks," we say, "I miscarriged at 8 weeks."
At 10 weeks, "I miscarried."

At 12 weeks, "I miscarried."
At 14 weeks, "I miscarried."

It is around 16 weeks, 4 months, that we begin to say, "I gave birth to my baby at 16 weeks." Many women do not even announce they are pregnant until after the 12th week, because they know there is a high chance of miscarriage and most people would not understand that loss unless they had experienced it themselves.

We do not bury an embryo born at 6, 8, 10, 12, or even 14 weeks. At 16 weeks, some parents will have a memorial service of some kind. Funerals are usually performed at 20 weeks or further along because the birth and death cannot be registered.

Now, if the embryo has "personhood" then the disposal method of these miscarriages would be much different. For one, doctor's refer to the miscarried "personhood" as "pregnancy tissue". Two, in early miscarriages the doctor sends it to a lab to be dissected. Three, if the woman miscarries early at home, the fetal sac will, most of the time, come out with the bleeding and many, many times fall into a toilet, where the woman flushes it.


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Reply #16 posted 05/18/19 8:03am

OnlyNDaUsa

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benni said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

yeah and in in 1789 neither were Slaves.


An embryo born at six weeks, we do not say, "I gave birth to my baby at 6 weeks" we say, "I miscarried at 6 weeks."
An embryo born at eight weeks, we do not say, "I gave birth to my baby at 8 weeks," we say, "I miscarriged at 8 weeks."
At 10 weeks, "I miscarried."

At 12 weeks, "I miscarried."
At 14 weeks, "I miscarried."

It is around 16 weeks, 4 months, that we begin to say, "I gave birth to my baby at 16 weeks." Many women do not even announce they are pregnant until after the 12th week, because they know there is a high chance of miscarriage and most people would not understand that loss unless they had experienced it themselves.

We do not bury an embryo born at 6, 8, 10, 12, or even 14 weeks. At 16 weeks, some parents will have a memorial service of some kind. Funerals are usually performed at 20 weeks or further along because the birth and death cannot be registered.

Now, if the embryo has "personhood" then the disposal method of these miscarriages would be much different. For one, doctor's refer to the miscarried "personhood" as "pregnancy tissue". Two, in early miscarriages the doctor sends it to a lab to be dissected. Three, if the woman miscarries early at home, the fetal sac will, most of the time, come out with the bleeding and many, many times fall into a toilet, where the woman flushes it.


again I have already said 6 weeks is too early...that it should be in the 20s... (I would say they need a reason at about 20... and at 25 some verified reason... 30+ a court order.)


I am taking more broadly...

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #17 posted 05/18/19 8:13am

benni

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

benni said:


An embryo born at six weeks, we do not say, "I gave birth to my baby at 6 weeks" we say, "I miscarried at 6 weeks."
An embryo born at eight weeks, we do not say, "I gave birth to my baby at 8 weeks," we say, "I miscarriged at 8 weeks."
At 10 weeks, "I miscarried."

At 12 weeks, "I miscarried."
At 14 weeks, "I miscarried."

It is around 16 weeks, 4 months, that we begin to say, "I gave birth to my baby at 16 weeks." Many women do not even announce they are pregnant until after the 12th week, because they know there is a high chance of miscarriage and most people would not understand that loss unless they had experienced it themselves.

We do not bury an embryo born at 6, 8, 10, 12, or even 14 weeks. At 16 weeks, some parents will have a memorial service of some kind. Funerals are usually performed at 20 weeks or further along because the birth and death cannot be registered.

Now, if the embryo has "personhood" then the disposal method of these miscarriages would be much different. For one, doctor's refer to the miscarried "personhood" as "pregnancy tissue". Two, in early miscarriages the doctor sends it to a lab to be dissected. Three, if the woman miscarries early at home, the fetal sac will, most of the time, come out with the bleeding and many, many times fall into a toilet, where the woman flushes it.


again I have already said 6 weeks is too early...that it should be in the 20s... (I would say they need a reason at about 20... and at 25 some verified reason... 30+ a court order.)


I am taking more broadly...



Yeah, but 2freaky said a "fetus" does not have personhood and then you attempted to argue with him by stating that slaves did not have personhood in 1789. Implying, that a fetus should have personhood.

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Reply #18 posted 05/18/19 8:21am

OnlyNDaUsa

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benni said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

again I have already said 6 weeks is too early...that it should be in the 20s... (I would say they need a reason at about 20... and at 25 some verified reason... 30+ a court order.)


I am taking more broadly...



Yeah, but 2freaky said a "fetus" does not have personhood and then you attempted to argue with him by stating that slaves did not have personhood in 1789. Implying, that a fetus should have personhood.

I thought a ferus was over 8 weeks... so that would inclued 30 weeks? Yes or no?

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #19 posted 05/18/19 8:30am

benni

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

benni said:



Yeah, but 2freaky said a "fetus" does not have personhood and then you attempted to argue with him by stating that slaves did not have personhood in 1789. Implying, that a fetus should have personhood.

I thought a ferus was over 8 weeks... so that would inclued 30 weeks? Yes or no?



Actually, a fetus starts at beginning of the 11th week of pregnancy. But we are talking about 8 weeks with the Missouri law. I'm sure 2freaky was talking about the 8 weeks (embryo), not a 40 week old fetus which is why I answered as I did. Most people confuse when a pregnancy is termed a fetus vs embryo.

And even with that, if you believe 8 weeks starts a fetus, are you arguing that an 8 week pregnancy should be termed "personhood"? You are still implying that personhood should start early in the pregnancy (8 weeks and after).

Most of the first trimester we are talking embryo.

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Reply #20 posted 05/18/19 8:38am

OnlyNDaUsa

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benni said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I thought a ferus was over 8 weeks... so that would inclued 30 weeks? Yes or no?



Actually, a fetus starts at beginning of the 11th week of pregnancy. But we are talking about 8 weeks with the Missouri law. I'm sure 2freaky was talking about the 8 weeks (embryo), not a 40 week old fetus which is why I answered as I did. Most people confuse when a pregnancy is termed a fetus vs embryo.

And even with that, if you believe 8 weeks starts a fetus, are you arguing that an 8 week pregnancy should be termed "personhood"? You are still implying that personhood should start early in the pregnancy (8 weeks and after).

Most of the first trimester we are talking embryo.

he said fetus... so I was going with that. If you have issue that he used that word take that up with him.

He said a fetus did not have personhood... that would seem to enclude ones at 20 or 30 or even 40 weeks...

I am not saying at 8 weeks or even 20. Maybe at 25? what do you say? At what point do you believe that a woman should have to have a good reason?

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #21 posted 05/18/19 9:43am

2elijah

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PennyPurple said:

In 1919 women got the right to vote. In 2019 women lost the rights to their bodies and didn't even get to vote on the matter.


How about men who make these decisions be forced to be sterilized? Bet they wouldn’t like that.

The best weapon women can do is vote elected officials out of office who support these bans.

I hope this will be the straw that broke the camel’s back that will get trump voted out of office. Since he took office, the country is moving backwards.
[Edited 5/18/19 9:45am]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #22 posted 05/18/19 10:32am

benni

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

benni said:



Actually, a fetus starts at beginning of the 11th week of pregnancy. But we are talking about 8 weeks with the Missouri law. I'm sure 2freaky was talking about the 8 weeks (embryo), not a 40 week old fetus which is why I answered as I did. Most people confuse when a pregnancy is termed a fetus vs embryo.

And even with that, if you believe 8 weeks starts a fetus, are you arguing that an 8 week pregnancy should be termed "personhood"? You are still implying that personhood should start early in the pregnancy (8 weeks and after).

Most of the first trimester we are talking embryo.

he said fetus... so I was going with that. If you have issue that he used that word take that up with him.

He said a fetus did not have personhood... that would seem to enclude ones at 20 or 30 or even 40 weeks...

I am not saying at 8 weeks or even 20. Maybe at 25? what do you say? At what point do you believe that a woman should have to have a good reason?


I don't have an issue with him using the word fetus, at all. I understood what he was talking about.

The earliest known baby born and survived has been at 21.5 weeks. Prior to that, the survival rate is nil. For me personally, I could never get an abortion. I just couldn't. But I believe that a woman should have the right to choose. Now I do not believe in late term abortions unless there is a threat to the mother's life, which is usually exactly why a late term abortion is done. Women don't carry pregnancies for several months and then suddenly decide, "Oh no, I don't want to be pregnant and I don't want this baby."

Usually, late term abortions are performed because of the threat to the mother's life or because there are congenital defects that would would not allow an infant to survive after birth. Most mother's in that situation face extremely difficult decisions and they look at the overall survival rate, as well as whether the baby would be in pain or suffer. I've never heard of a late term abortion for any other reason.

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Reply #23 posted 05/24/19 9:52am

PennyPurple

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Our lovely Gov. has signed the bill for MO today. One would think that he would have other things to worry about since our capitol city was torn apart from tornadoes. sad

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