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Thread started 04/05/19 11:48am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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Let’s talk democratic presidential contenders 2020

I don’t know most of the people considering running well enough. And if someone who supports democrats that’s a big big problem. If I can’t think of anyone I truly stand behind imagine what that says for regular apolitical American.

Here are my quick knee-jerk opinions on some of the names being thrown around. I’m sure as the primaries draw near and we get to know the contenders better we will all start seeing a filtration and distillation of who our personal choices would be.

Here are my opinions, I’d like to hear yours.

Beto: right now he looks a like punching bag for Trump. I’ll need to see more of him besides just being charming but also able to handle a bonkers bully like Trump

Kamala: she loomed off like she has what it takes to take on Trump.

Biden: he can handle trump, but I worry about his age.

Hillary: unpopular opinion but I’d like to see a rematch. If she runs, I’ll support her.

Bernie: I like Bernie but he has no chance and would just be a distraction.
President Turd is the shit.
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Reply #1 posted 04/05/19 12:00pm

RodeoSchro

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Officially in

Tim Ryan
- Don't know enough yet

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand - Maybe. Need more info

Beto O’Rourke - Everyone likes him but my take is that if you can't beat the least popular politician in America, how are you going to beat Trump? He's a VP candidate at best, IMO

John Hickenlooper - I like this dude, heard him on "Wait wait Don't Tell Me" and he impressed me

Gov. Jay Inslee - Who? Need more info

Bernie Sanders - Go away, you're too old

Amy Klobuchar - Anyone that references Prince gets in the mix, IMO

Sen. Elizabeth Warren - Waited too long, should have run in 2016

Sen. Cory Booker - I don't know why I don't like him as much as I did 6 - 8 years ago, but I can't think of anything he's done

Sen. Kamala Harris - Probably my favorite at this point

Julian Castro - You're going to like this guy when you get to know him

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard - I like her but everyone says she's a DINO and is really a Republican

John Delaney - Seems like a good guy but probably has no chance

Wayne Messam - Who?

Marianne Williamson - No chance but I hope she at least gets into the first debate

Andrew Yang - This guy is interesting. Don't sell him short

Pete Buttigieg (only formed an exploratory committee so far) - Awesome!

Joe Biden (hasn't declared yet) - Too old. Go away!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #2 posted 04/05/19 1:51pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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RodeoSchro said:

Officially in

Tim Ryan
- Don't know enough yet

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand - Maybe. Need more info

Beto O’Rourke - Everyone likes him but my take is that if you can't beat the least popular politician in America, how are you going to beat Trump? He's a VP candidate at best, IMO

John Hickenlooper - I like this dude, heard him on "Wait wait Don't Tell Me" and he impressed me

Gov. Jay Inslee - Who? Need more info

Bernie Sanders - Go away, you're too old

Amy Klobuchar - Anyone that references Prince gets in the mix, IMO

Sen. Elizabeth Warren - Waited too long, should have run in 2016

Sen. Cory Booker - I don't know why I don't like him as much as I did 6 - 8 years ago, but I can't think of anything he's done

Sen. Kamala Harris - Probably my favorite at this point

Julian Castro - You're going to like this guy when you get to know him

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard - I like her but everyone says she's a DINO and is really a Republican

John Delaney - Seems like a good guy but probably has no chance

Wayne Messam - Who?

Marianne Williamson - No chance but I hope she at least gets into the first debate

Andrew Yang - This guy is interesting. Don't sell him short

Pete Buttigieg (only formed an exploratory committee so far) - Awesome!

Joe Biden (hasn't declared yet) - Too old. Go away!



Thanks for that!
President Turd is the shit.
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Reply #3 posted 04/06/19 10:47am

OnlyNDaUsa

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basket of deplorables

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #4 posted 04/06/19 10:52am

PennyPurple

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Bernie is just going to take votes away.

I like Biden, but his age and him being old school might not work for him.


No on Hillary.


I like Booker, and Castro.


We need someone strong that can hold up to Trump and his cult like following.

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Reply #5 posted 04/06/19 3:26pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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PennyPurple said:

Bernie is just going to take votes away.



I like Biden, but his age and him being old school might not work for him.



No on Hillary.



I like Booker, and Castro.



We need someone strong that can hold up to Trump and his cult like following.



What would you think of a Biden/Kamala Harris Ticket? I think I would strengthen Kamala for a future run.
President Turd is the shit.
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Reply #6 posted 04/06/19 3:28pm

PennyPurple

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

PennyPurple said:

Bernie is just going to take votes away.

I like Biden, but his age and him being old school might not work for him.


No on Hillary.


I like Booker, and Castro.


We need someone strong that can hold up to Trump and his cult like following.

What would you think of a Biden/Kamala Harris Ticket? I think I would strengthen Kamala for a future run.

That would be cool.

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Reply #7 posted 04/06/19 3:39pm

jjhunsecker

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PennyPurple said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


PennyPurple said:

Bernie is just going to take votes away.



I like Biden, but his age and him being old school might not work for him.



No on Hillary.



I like Booker, and Castro.



We need someone strong that can hold up to Trump and his cult like following.



What would you think of a Biden/Kamala Harris Ticket? I think I would strengthen Kamala for a future run.

That would be cool.



If they have a White male at the top of the ticket, they need a woman and/or minority as VP

I still maintain that Hillary would have probably won if she picked Julien Castro as her VP. It would have energized the Hispanic voters
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Reply #8 posted 04/06/19 3:48pm

2elijah

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I actually don’t mind Biden, but Bernie is not on my list. Need to do more research on Kamala Harris. Julian Castro a possibility. Not a complete list of possibilities, but have to see who is the best candidate to kick trump’s nutcase ass out of office.
[Edited 4/6/19 15:48pm]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #9 posted 04/06/19 3:48pm

2elijah

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

PennyPurple said:

Bernie is just going to take votes away.



I like Biden, but his age and him being old school might not work for him.



No on Hillary.



I like Booker, and Castro.



We need someone strong that can hold up to Trump and his cult like following.



What would you think of a Biden/Kamala Harris Ticket? I think I would strengthen Kamala for a future run.

Hmmmm...that’s not a bad choice.
[Edited 4/6/19 15:49pm]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #10 posted 04/06/19 3:52pm

2elijah

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Democratic Congressmen Seth Moulton, is thinking about getting in the race. Don’t know much about him. He said it’s China that’s taking jobs away, not immigrants at the border.
[Edited 4/6/19 15:56pm]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #11 posted 04/06/19 4:19pm

poppys

2elijah said:

I actually don’t mind Biden, but Bernie is not on my list. Need to do more research on Kamala Harris. Julian Castro a possibility. Not a complete list of possibilities,

but have to see who is the best candidate to kick trump’s nutcase ass out of office.

This is the only thing that really matters to me.

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Reply #12 posted 04/06/19 4:25pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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I was watching clips of Kamala on YouTube and she’s a little rough around the edges. I think she needs a little more time in politics. I saw her CNN special and she looked like she was trying too hard and came off as inauthentic. But it’s nothing a little more time in politics can’t solve or show us whether or not she can handle it.

Boy my autocorrect has a mind of its own. If I don’t keep a an eagle eye on it, it would make up its own sentences. I go back a read my posts and fuck if I know what happened.
[Edited 4/6/19 16:31pm]
President Turd is the shit.
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Reply #13 posted 04/06/19 5:05pm

2elijah

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poppys said:



2elijah said:


I actually don’t mind Biden, but Bernie is not on my list. Need to do more research on Kamala Harris. Julian Castro a possibility. Not a complete list of possibilities,

but have to see who is the best candidate to kick trump’s nutcase ass out of office.


This is the only thing that really matters to me.


Exactly. We need a human being in the White House. Right now, one doesn’t exist there.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #14 posted 04/06/19 7:01pm

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

poppys said:



2elijah said:


I actually don’t mind Biden, but Bernie is not on my list. Need to do more research on Kamala Harris. Julian Castro a possibility. Not a complete list of possibilities,

but have to see who is the best candidate to kick trump’s nutcase ass out of office.


This is the only thing that really matters to me.


Exactly. We need a human being in the White House. Right now, one doesn’t exist there.


Our current President is a subhuman racist sexual predator and half senile moron, with Narcissistic Personality Disorder
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Reply #15 posted 04/06/19 7:47pm

damosuzuki

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based on nothing but my canadian outsider feelings, some poll numbers & the podcasts i spend too much time following, i rate the chances of the field roughly as follows:

1) sanders - still seems fanciful to me in some sense that the crusty bolshevik is the front-runner, but i think he has the best path. it sure feels to me like he's got the firmest floor of support, & in a crowded field that may be enough to carry him through to the end. 30% chance he's the nom i say.

2) biden - i wanted to slip him down to 3rd or even lower, because, despite continuing to lead polls, everyone thinks that his underbelly is soft & i think it's probably right that he's a paper tiger. he's gone nowhere the times he's run before, he was by all accounts an average (if that) campaigner, & he's out of step with party energy. but...former vice presidents tend to get the nominations when they run. nixon, mondale, bush, gore. biden's time probably was 4 years ago, but name recognition gets rewarded. 20%

3) harris - competent, hits the right intersectional notes. but her law & order past is also out of step with the party energy. kamala is a cop, as the saying now goes. & i think she's seemed shaky in some of her early outings. but if sanders pulls ahead, wins several early primaries, she may have the best path to becoming the anybody but bernie default choice. 15%

4) beto - i think he's got the best shot of eating away at sander's core, because he seems to get the kids excited. rightly or (i'd say mostly) wrongly, people do seem to want to fall for candidates, & i think his charisma could work its magic, that he could become the good looking, boyish rascal blank slate people transpose their hopes & dreams on. 10%

5) klobuchar - the sensible mid-western lady who would perhaps rate more highly if everyone didn't know that she's really mean. 8%

6) mayor pete - smart as a whip gay man who supports bourgeois values. i think there is a non-trivial chance he could really take off. maybe it will just be ephemeral - we often see multiple candidates rise & fall in the course of a cycle - but i wouldn't be shocked if he made it all the way to the end, was one of the final 3 or 4 competitors. 7%

7) warren - hobbled by that dna business, but i think she has a good chance of scoring big in debates. she's thought about things & knows how to talk about the things she's interested in. 5%

everyone else - 5%.
supposedly bloomberg is floating the possibility that he'll get in if biden stays out. perhaps this is also fanciful of me, but i think there could be an audience for that - a older guy who will step up & say 'cool it on the heated rhetoric, it's time for a sensible adult here.' & i hope andrew yang gets his moment in the sun. along with buttigieg, i think he's the most interesting candidate.

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."

http://www.thelifeyoucansave.com/
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Reply #16 posted 04/07/19 2:32am

benni

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My list:

1. Mayor Pete: I know he hasn't officially started running yet, but this man impresses me every time I hear him speak. I honestly think he's the best chance we have to take on Trump. Pete is extremely intelligent, learned a foreign language just because he wanted to be able to read an author in that author's native tongue. I also think he will be the one guy to really bring home bipartisan politics. Republicans and Democrats seem to like him.

2. Kamala Harris: On the female side of things, I like her. But I'm concerned that she's a bit rough around the edges. I don't think she will play well in this election cycle. I wish she would hold off to run when she has a better chance. I also think that with the current racial tensions in the country, she's not going to stand a chance.

3. Beto - I liked Beto at first, he said all the right things, but there is something about Beto that doesn't quite fit for me. I think he needs to get a little more experience under his belt. And he's way too nice to go against Trump. Trump will eat him up and spit him out. And I just don't think Beto has what it takes to be able to go all the way against Trump.

4. Corey Booker - I like him, too. But I don't think he really has a chance this election cycle. There is too much racial tension going on since Trump took office and I hate to say it, but I just don't think a person of color can win this election cycle. I also feel like Booker is too naive about running against Trump. I think he seems to be someone who thinks he should be able to go in and just win, and that's not going to be how this election cycle goes. It's going to be a fight the whole way, a very nasty fight. If we thought we'd seen the worst an election cycle could get with the 2016 election, that was child's play compared to what's coming.

5. Biden - I like Joe. Joe is a good hearted man. But he won't win against Trump, not after the allegations of sexism. Trump can do and say whatever he wants, but a Democratic candidate is going to have to be absolutely clean because people won't accept that behavior from the Democrats. It's hypocritical that we can have a Republican President who can say and do the things Trump has, and experience no political blowback from that, and a Democratic candidate cannot, but that is where we are at right now in this nation.

I'm not really overly impressed with any of the other candidates yet. I'm going to have to watch them more, hear what they say, see what they do. Right now, I don't feel like we have a candidate that can beat Trump. I think Mayor Pete stands the best chance, but he's not running, yet. He did state that he has a special announcement to make, I believe 4/14/19. And chances are he will be running. But I think even he will face a tough fight due to his sexual orientation.

And I hate to say it, but I'm afraid Trump is going to win again. I hope not. I pray I am wrong, but it's just a gut feeling that he's going to pull it off once again.

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Reply #17 posted 04/07/19 7:16am

SuperFurryAnim
al

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Oprah can win against Trump. I hope she runs and makes the contest interesting. It could come down to one or two votes this election.
What are you outraged about today? CNN has not told you yet?
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Reply #18 posted 04/07/19 8:51am

2elijah

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benni said:

My list:

1. Mayor Pete: I know he hasn't officially started running yet, but this man impresses me every time I hear him speak. I honestly think he's the best chance we have to take on Trump. Pete is extremely intelligent, learned a foreign language just because he wanted to be able to read an author in that author's native tongue. I also think he will be the one guy to really bring home bipartisan politics. Republicans and Democrats seem to like him.

2. Kamala Harris: On the female side of things, I like her. But I'm concerned that she's a bit rough around the edges. I don't think she will play well in this election cycle. I wish she would hold off to run when she has a better chance. I also think that with the current racial tensions in the country, she's not going to stand a chance.

3. Beto - I liked Beto at first, he said all the right things, but there is something about Beto that doesn't quite fit for me. I think he needs to get a little more experience under his belt. And he's way too nice to go against Trump. Trump will eat him up and spit him out. And I just don't think Beto has what it takes to be able to go all the way against Trump.

4. Corey Booker - I like him, too. But I don't think he really has a chance this election cycle. There is too much racial tension going on since Trump took office and I hate to say it, but I just don't think a person of color can win this election cycle. I also feel like Booker is too naive about running against Trump. I think he seems to be someone who thinks he should be able to go in and just win, and that's not going to be how this election cycle goes. It's going to be a fight the whole way, a very nasty fight. If we thought we'd seen the worst an election cycle could get with the 2016 election, that was child's play compared to what's coming.

5. Biden - I like Joe. Joe is a good hearted man. But he won't win against Trump, not after the allegations of sexism. Trump can do and say whatever he wants, but a Democratic candidate is going to have to be absolutely clean because people won't accept that behavior from the Democrats. It's hypocritical that we can have a Republican President who can say and do the things Trump has, and experience no political blowback from that, and a Democratic candidate cannot, but that is where we are at right now in this nation.

I'm not really overly impressed with any of the other candidates yet. I'm going to have to watch them more, hear what they say, see what they do. Right now, I don't feel like we have a candidate that can beat Trump. I think Mayor Pete stands the best chance, but he's not running, yet. He did state that he has a special announcement to make, I believe 4/14/19. And chances are he will be running. But I think even he will face a tough fight due to his sexual orientation.

And I hate to say it, but I'm afraid Trump is going to win again. I hope not. I pray I am wrong, but it's just a gut feeling that he's going to pull it off once again.


I’d say it would be Beto, Biden (If he chooses to run), Sanders (not a favorite of mine) or Harris that would have a chance to win the primaries.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #19 posted 04/07/19 8:58am

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

benni said:

My list:

1. Mayor Pete: I know he hasn't officially started running yet, but this man impresses me every time I hear him speak. I honestly think he's the best chance we have to take on Trump. Pete is extremely intelligent, learned a foreign language just because he wanted to be able to read an author in that author's native tongue. I also think he will be the one guy to really bring home bipartisan politics. Republicans and Democrats seem to like him.

2. Kamala Harris: On the female side of things, I like her. But I'm concerned that she's a bit rough around the edges. I don't think she will play well in this election cycle. I wish she would hold off to run when she has a better chance. I also think that with the current racial tensions in the country, she's not going to stand a chance.

3. Beto - I liked Beto at first, he said all the right things, but there is something about Beto that doesn't quite fit for me. I think he needs to get a little more experience under his belt. And he's way too nice to go against Trump. Trump will eat him up and spit him out. And I just don't think Beto has what it takes to be able to go all the way against Trump.

4. Corey Booker - I like him, too. But I don't think he really has a chance this election cycle. There is too much racial tension going on since Trump took office and I hate to say it, but I just don't think a person of color can win this election cycle. I also feel like Booker is too naive about running against Trump. I think he seems to be someone who thinks he should be able to go in and just win, and that's not going to be how this election cycle goes. It's going to be a fight the whole way, a very nasty fight. If we thought we'd seen the worst an election cycle could get with the 2016 election, that was child's play compared to what's coming.

5. Biden - I like Joe. Joe is a good hearted man. But he won't win against Trump, not after the allegations of sexism. Trump can do and say whatever he wants, but a Democratic candidate is going to have to be absolutely clean because people won't accept that behavior from the Democrats. It's hypocritical that we can have a Republican President who can say and do the things Trump has, and experience no political blowback from that, and a Democratic candidate cannot, but that is where we are at right now in this nation.

I'm not really overly impressed with any of the other candidates yet. I'm going to have to watch them more, hear what they say, see what they do. Right now, I don't feel like we have a candidate that can beat Trump. I think Mayor Pete stands the best chance, but he's not running, yet. He did state that he has a special announcement to make, I believe 4/14/19. And chances are he will be running. But I think even he will face a tough fight due to his sexual orientation.

And I hate to say it, but I'm afraid Trump is going to win again. I hope not. I pray I am wrong, but it's just a gut feeling that he's going to pull it off once again.


I’d say it would be Beto, Biden (If he chooses to run), Sanders (not a favorite of mine) or Harris that would have a chance to win the primaries.


I still think Beto would be in a much better position if he had actually won his Senate race. Like if you can't beat Ted Cruz, can you beat Trump?
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Reply #20 posted 04/07/19 9:09am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said:
I’d say it would be Beto, Biden (If he chooses to run), Sanders (not a favorite of mine) or Harris that would have a chance to win the primaries.
I still think Beto would be in a much better position if he had actually won his Senate race. Like if you can't beat Ted Cruz, can you beat Trump?

he damn near won... and he did help other dems win elections that should have been comfortable wins. If you can get within 3 points in texas that means he can win in other states trump won... but some say he has fizzled out... I am not so sure.

Being a die-hard civil rights champion,
Being a die-hard libertarian,
Sometimes I have to defend
that which I find distasteful.
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Reply #21 posted 04/07/19 9:25am

SuperFurryAnim
al

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said: I still think Beto would be in a much better position if he had actually won his Senate race. Like if you can't beat Ted Cruz, can you beat Trump?

he damn near won... and he did help other dems win elections that should have been comfortable wins. If you can get within 3 points in texas that means he can win in other states trump won... but some say he has fizzled out... I am not so sure.

He was filmed with a satanic mask on. Not sure if he worships the devil but it would hurt his votes with older people that don't.

https://cdn.newspunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/beto-masked-goat.jpg

What are you outraged about today? CNN has not told you yet?
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Reply #22 posted 04/07/19 11:00am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said:


I’d say it would be Beto, Biden (If he chooses to run), Sanders (not a favorite of mine) or Harris that would have a chance to win the primaries.


I still think Beto would be in a much better position if he had actually won his Senate race. Like if you can't beat Ted Cruz, can you beat Trump?

This is true, but now he’s s getting more coverage, because he’s running for president. I think he may surprise a lot of folks in the end. He’s much younger than trump, and trump would look like a damn fool, during a debate with Beto, using childish tactics/insults towards someone much younger, and more open-minded than he is.
[Edited 4/7/19 11:02am]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #23 posted 04/07/19 12:08pm

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:



I still think Beto would be in a much better position if he had actually won his Senate race. Like if you can't beat Ted Cruz, can you beat Trump?

This is true, but now he’s s getting more coverage, because he’s running for president. I think he may surprise a lot of folks in the end. He’s much younger than trump, and trump would look like a damn fool, during a debate with Beto, using childish tactics/insults towards someone much younger, and more open-minded than he is.
[Edited 4/7/19 11:02am]


There's no doubt that I would vote for him over Trump. Literally almost anyone is more qualified to be President- intellectually and temperamentally- than Agent Orange
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Reply #24 posted 04/07/19 12:57pm

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

2elijah said:


This is true, but now he’s s getting more coverage, because he’s running for president. I think he may surprise a lot of folks in the end. He’s much younger than trump, and trump would look like a damn fool, during a debate with Beto, using childish tactics/insults towards someone much younger, and more open-minded than he is.
[Edited 4/7/19 11:02am]


There's no doubt that I would vote for him over Trump. Literally almost anyone is more qualified to be President- intellectually and temperamentally- than Agent Orange

Lol.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #25 posted 04/08/19 6:33am

namepeace

Money and debates will decide this contest, in some order.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #26 posted 04/08/19 1:26pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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Breaking news: Beto O'Rourke calls Netanyahu a racist.

What are you outraged about today? CNN has not told you yet?
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Reply #27 posted 04/08/19 1:53pm

poppys

^^ Not breaking. It was yesterday, in Iowa.

salon.com

Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke on Sunday offered sweeping criticism of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, calling him a "racist" whose embrace of a far-right government group as part of a last-ditch effort to rally his extremist base and cling onto political power has destroyed any chance of achieving peace in the Middle East.


And he was wearing a sheep costume in that photo you posted upthread. From a 2003 band he was in called The Sheeps. Stop lying Furry.

[Edited 4/8/19 14:14pm]

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Reply #28 posted 04/08/19 4:35pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:
I still think Beto would be in a much better position if he had actually won his Senate race. Like if you can't beat Ted Cruz, can you beat Trump?
This is true, but now he’s s getting more coverage, because he’s running for president. I think he may surprise a lot of folks in the end. He’s much younger than trump, and trump would look like a damn fool, during a debate with Beto, using childish tactics/insults towards someone much younger, and more open-minded than he is. [Edited 4/7/19 11:02am]


Beto is second only to Bernie is rasisng campaign contributions - he has wide support

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #29 posted 04/08/19 4:37pm

DiminutiveRock
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poppys said:

^^ Not breaking. It was yesterday, in Iowa.

salon.com

Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke on Sunday offered sweeping criticism of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, calling him a "racist" whose embrace of a far-right government group as part of a last-ditch effort to rally his extremist base and cling onto political power has destroyed any chance of achieving peace in the Middle East.


And he was wearing a sheep costume in that photo you posted upthread. From a 2003 band he was in called The Sheeps. Stop lying Furry.

[Edited 4/8/19 14:14pm]



Thanks, Poppys. I am so tired of all the Fox News regurgitation of misinformation rolleyes

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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