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Thread started 10/20/09 10:05am

ehuffnsd

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8: The Mormon Proposition

You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #1 posted 10/20/09 12:04pm

rodman2

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Just another religion in bed with the government to manipulate their ideas, Jesus and his disciples were no part of the world affairs. A true following would stand the same. How many people who follow the bible do you see standing this way. One for sure Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Reply #2 posted 10/20/09 12:44pm

savoirfaire

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rodman2 said:

Just another religion in bed with the government to manipulate their ideas, Jesus and his disciples were no part of the world affairs. A true following would stand the same. How many people who follow the bible do you see standing this way. One for sure Jehovah's Witnesses.


You're right, and I applaud that about Jehovah's witnesses. They live how they feel is right without meddling in the policy of government or pushing their agenda to anyone outside their faith.

If I had to choose between an ocassional witness knocking on my door and superpowerful megachurches getting into politics to hinder education, health, and our personal freedoms, I'll pick the witness knocking on my door.
"Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring faith. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal" - Carl Sagan
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Reply #3 posted 10/20/09 4:19pm

TrueBlue4U

rodman2 said:

Just another religion in bed with the government to manipulate their ideas, Jesus and his disciples were no part of the world affairs. A true following would stand the same. How many people who follow the bible do you see standing this way. One for sure Jehovah's Witnesses.


Jehovah's Witnesses are pro Gay marriage and gays in Witnesses congregation?
Cool.
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Reply #4 posted 10/20/09 5:03pm

savoirfaire

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TrueBlue4U said:

rodman2 said:

Just another religion in bed with the government to manipulate their ideas, Jesus and his disciples were no part of the world affairs. A true following would stand the same. How many people who follow the bible do you see standing this way. One for sure Jehovah's Witnesses.


Jehovah's Witnesses are pro Gay marriage and gays in Witnesses congregation?
Cool.


I'm not trying to speak on behalf of JWs, but I think it's just that they don't get involved in politics one way or another, regardless of their personal stance. If gay marriage were legal or illegal, it would not change how they lived and would not spark a change of position or group outcry one way or another, because it's not their business.

Am I correct in saying this, or off base? That's what I gathered from Rodman's original post.
"Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring faith. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal" - Carl Sagan
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Reply #5 posted 10/20/09 5:10pm

ehuffnsd

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savoirfaire said:

TrueBlue4U said:



Jehovah's Witnesses are pro Gay marriage and gays in Witnesses congregation?
Cool.


I'm not trying to speak on behalf of JWs, but I think it's just that they don't get involved in politics one way or another, regardless of their personal stance. If gay marriage were legal or illegal, it would not change how they lived and would not spark a change of position or group outcry one way or another, because it's not their business.

Am I correct in saying this, or off base? That's what I gathered from Rodman's original post.

i believe you are correct
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #6 posted 10/20/09 5:26pm

rodman2

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savoirfaire said:

TrueBlue4U said:



Jehovah's Witnesses are pro Gay marriage and gays in Witnesses congregation?
Cool.


I'm not trying to speak on behalf of JWs, but I think it's just that they don't get involved in politics one way or another, regardless of their personal stance. If gay marriage were legal or illegal, it would not change how they lived and would not spark a change of position or group outcry one way or another, because it's not their business.

Am I correct in saying this, or off base? That's what I gathered from Rodman's original post.


You are correct.
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Reply #7 posted 10/20/09 5:28pm

rodman2

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TrueBlue4U said:

rodman2 said:

Just another religion in bed with the government to manipulate their ideas, Jesus and his disciples were no part of the world affairs. A true following would stand the same. How many people who follow the bible do you see standing this way. One for sure Jehovah's Witnesses.


Jehovah's Witnesses are pro Gay marriage and gays in Witnesses congregation?
Cool.


Learn about us in 387 languages.

http://www.watchtower.org/
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Reply #8 posted 10/20/09 5:50pm

TrueBlue4U

rodman2 said:

savoirfaire said:



I'm not trying to speak on behalf of JWs, but I think it's just that they don't get involved in politics one way or another, regardless of their personal stance. If gay marriage were legal or illegal, it would not change how they lived and would not spark a change of position or group outcry one way or another, because it's not their business.

Am I correct in saying this, or off base? That's what I gathered from Rodman's original post.


You are correct.


So are Witnesses silent condonors or condemners of the Mormons on Gay issues?
You have to have a point of view or you wouldn't be in this "political thread".
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Reply #9 posted 10/20/09 5:53pm

TrueBlue4U

rodman2 said:

TrueBlue4U said:



Jehovah's Witnesses are pro Gay marriage and gays in Witnesses congregation?
Cool.


Learn about us in 387 languages.

http://www.watchtower.org/


Are you trying to convert the homosexual community here by posting those links?
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Reply #10 posted 10/20/09 6:00pm

savoirfaire

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TrueBlue4U said:

rodman2 said:



You are correct.


So are Witnesses silent condonors or condemners of the Mormons on Gay issues?
You have to have a point of view or you wouldn't be in this "political thread".


Unless the point of view is religious groups shouldn't get involved, no matter what their point of view is.
"Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring faith. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal" - Carl Sagan
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Reply #11 posted 10/20/09 6:01pm

rodman2

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TrueBlue4U said:

rodman2 said:



Learn about us in 387 languages.

http://www.watchtower.org/


Are you trying to convert the homosexual community here by posting those links?


I was showing you our site, so possibly you might learn about us, knowledge is a good thing. I was responding to you.
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Reply #12 posted 10/20/09 6:07pm

rodman2

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TrueBlue4U said:

rodman2 said:



You are correct.


So are Witnesses silent condonors or condemners of the Mormons on Gay issues?
You have to have a point of view or you wouldn't be in this "political thread".


Like I said educate yourself about us, and the Mormons, there's a big difference.
And the thread is about the Mormons using their money and power to influence the government legislation.
[Edited 10/20/09 18:08pm]
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Reply #13 posted 10/20/09 6:24pm

TrueBlue4U

rodman2 said:

TrueBlue4U said:



So are Witnesses silent condonors or condemners of the Mormons on Gay issues?
You have to have a point of view or you wouldn't be in this "political thread".


Like I said educate yourself about us, and the Mormons, there's a big difference.
And the thread is about the Mormons using their money and power to influence the government legislation.
[Edited 10/20/09 18:08pm]


Well You were make the point that Jesus wouldn't have no part of the world affairs...Why not? and is it a Sin to work in government?

But did God ever have his part in world affairs?

Is it a sin to be gay?
Is it a sin to be gay and be involved in government and fight for equal rights?

What if a government desides to take a action against Jehovah's Witnesses
that prevent them from worship how the Witnesses see fit..
would you stay silent or get involved and have mans law hold up to a higher law?
[Edited 10/20/09 18:27pm]
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Reply #14 posted 10/20/09 6:41pm

rodman2

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TrueBlue4U said:

rodman2 said:



Like I said educate yourself about us, and the Mormons, there's a big difference.
And the thread is about the Mormons using their money and power to influence the government legislation.
[Edited 10/20/09 18:08pm]


Well You were make the point that Jesus wouldn't have no part of the world affairs...Why not? and is it a Sin to work in government?

But did God ever have his part in world affairs?

Is it a sin to be gay?
Is it a sin to be gay and be involved in government and fight for equal rights?

What if a government desides to take a action against Jehovah's Witnesses
that pervent them from worship how the Witnesses see fit.
Would you stay silent or get involved and have mans law hold up to a higher law?


You're off topic here, sounds like you might think it's a good thing that religious institutes like the mormon's use their money and power to get legislation to work towards their beliefs and ban people from freedom of rights.

And hey we are banned in many countries, imprisoned for refusing to learn war and fight in battle, for knocking on doors and talking about the bible. Like I said check out our site.
http://www.jw-media.org/n.../index.htm
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Reply #15 posted 10/20/09 7:40pm

ehuffnsd

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the topic here is 8 not JW.

please get back on topic.
[Edited 10/20/09 19:41pm]
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #16 posted 10/20/09 11:10pm

rodman2

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ehuffnsd said:

the topic here is 8 not JW.

please get back on topic.
[Edited 10/20/09 19:41pm]


Sorry about the second paragraph, Eric.
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Reply #17 posted 10/21/09 12:18am

TrueBlue4U

rodman2 said:

TrueBlue4U said:



Well You were make the point that Jesus wouldn't have no part of the world affairs...Why not? and is it a Sin to work in government?

But did God ever have his part in world affairs?

Is it a sin to be gay?
Is it a sin to be gay and be involved in government and fight for equal rights?

What if a government desides to take a action against Jehovah's Witnesses
that pervent them from worship how the Witnesses see fit.
Would you stay silent or get involved and have mans law hold up to a higher law?


You're off topic here, sounds like you might think it's a good thing that religious institutes like the mormon's use their money and power to get legislation to work towards their beliefs and ban people from freedom of rights.

And hey we are banned in many countries, imprisoned for refusing to learn war and fight in battle, for knocking on doors and talking about the bible. Like I said check out our site.
http://www.jw-media.org/n.../index.htm



No..It sound like you not standing up.
Being silent under the guise of your religion.
Witnesses seem just as bad as being like the Mormons you claim to be better than.
Your silence on the subject is as loud as there screams.

You're off topic here

You started it by proping the Jehovah's Witnesses above all other beliefs.
Im just asking if your faith has the same views as the Mormons?
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Reply #18 posted 10/21/09 7:11am

babynoz

ehuffnsd said:

the topic here is 8 not JW.

please get back on topic.
[Edited 10/20/09 19:41pm]


Thank you, enough with the informercials/public service announcements. eek

On topic, anytime we allow the separation of church and state to be eroded by any denomination to further an agenda of predjudice, it's dangerous. Religious extremeism often gets overlooked or minimized in the US unless it's dealing with Islam.
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #19 posted 10/21/09 10:02am

rodman2

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TrueBlue4U said:[quote]

rodman2 said:




No..It sound like you not standing up.
Being silent under the guise of your religion.
Witnesses seem just as bad as being like the Mormons you claim to be better than.
Your silence on the subject is as loud as there screams.

You're off topic here

You started it by proping the Jehovah's Witnesses above all other beliefs.
Im just asking if your faith has the same views as the Mormons?


I was merely pointing out the wisdom of the bible on instructing Christians to be no part of government affairs.
This is about 8 and we did not vote either way, or coerce a vote using power and money. Our understanding of the bible is brought to the gay community in a one on one confrontation at the door. All gays on this forum know our stand on their lifestyle, I see no need to go over it again, especially when it's not the topic. Both religions have written literature on their stands on the gay lifestyle at their sites, ours is free for the asking, the mormons of course can be bought at amazon.com, the proceeds no doubt possibly help in developing a healthy relationship with government officials. That's just a guess.
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Reply #20 posted 10/21/09 10:14am

savoirfaire

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rodman2 said:

TrueBlue4U said:


You started it by proping the Jehovah's Witnesses above all other beliefs.
Im just asking if your faith has the same views as the Mormons?


I was merely pointing out the wisdom of the bible on instructing Christians to be no part of government affairs.
This is about 8 and we did not vote either way, or coerce a vote using power and money. Our understanding of the bible is brought to the gay community in a one on one confrontation at the door. All gays on this forum know our stand on their lifestyle, I see no need to go over it again, especially when it's not the topic. Both religions have written literature on their stands on the gay lifestyle at their sites, ours is free for the asking, the mormons of course can be bought at amazon.com, the proceeds no doubt possibly help in developing a healthy relationship with government officials. That's just a guess.


Well let's be fair to the mormons, they also offer a ton of their materials for free, including the Book of mormon, other handouts, and they even have a free online chat site where you can ask their missionaries questions.
[Edited 10/21/09 10:14am]
"Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring faith. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal" - Carl Sagan
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Reply #21 posted 10/21/09 10:54am

ehuffnsd

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babynoz said:

ehuffnsd said:

the topic here is 8 not JW.

please get back on topic.
[Edited 10/20/09 19:41pm]


Thank you, enough with the informercials/public service announcements. eek

On topic, anytime we allow the separation of church and state to be eroded by any denomination to further an agenda of predjudice, it's dangerous. Religious extremeism often gets overlooked or minimized in the US unless it's dealing with Islam.

and than the a leader in the Mormon Church said they were the new black
Last year, the Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints urged its followers to donate money and time to pass Prop 8, the successful ballot measure that eliminated the right of same-sex couples to wed in California. Afterward, protests, including several near LDS temples, erupted along with boycotts of business owners who donated to Prop 8 and even some vandalism of LDS meetinghouses. "In their effect," Oaks said, "they are like the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the South that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation." Jeanetta Williams, president of the NAACP's Salt Lake branch, said there is "no comparison." "I don't see where the LDS Church has been denied any of their rights," she said. "What the gay and lesbian communities are fighting for, that is a civil-rights issue."

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13552589
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #22 posted 10/21/09 4:16pm

babynoz

ehuffnsd said:[quote]

babynoz said:


and than the a leader in the Mormon Church said they were the new black
Last year, the Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints urged its followers to donate money and time to pass Prop 8, the successful ballot measure that eliminated the right of same-sex couples to wed in California. Afterward, protests, including several near LDS temples, erupted along with boycotts of business owners who donated to Prop 8 and even some vandalism of LDS meetinghouses. "In their effect," Oaks said, "they are like the well-known and widely condemned voter-intimidation of blacks in the South that produced corrective federal civil-rights legislation." Jeanetta Williams, president of the NAACP's Salt Lake branch, said there is "no comparison." "I don't see where the LDS Church has been denied any of their rights," she said. "What the gay and lesbian communities are fighting for, that is a civil-rights issue."

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13552589


Williams is correct...LDS did the equivalent of throwing a rock and trying to hide behind a tree afterward.
Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #23 posted 10/21/09 5:38pm

ehuffnsd

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rodman2 said:

TrueBlue4U said:


You started it by proping the Jehovah's Witnesses above all other beliefs.
Im just asking if your faith has the same views as the Mormons?


I was merely pointing out the wisdom of the bible on instructing Christians to be no part of government affairs.
This is about 8 and we did not vote either way, or coerce a vote using power and money. Our understanding of the bible is brought to the gay community in a one on one confrontation at the door. All gays on this forum know our stand on their lifestyle, I see no need to go over it again, especially when it's not the topic. Both religions have written literature on their stands on the gay lifestyle at their sites, ours is free for the asking, the mormons of course can be bought at amazon.com, the proceeds no doubt possibly help in developing a healthy relationship with government officials. That's just a guess.

when you posted the link to the watch tower you were veering off track. now back to 8
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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