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Thread started 06/13/19 3:56pm

onlyforaminute

Would you care if we found life in our solr system?

Would you care if it were single-cell? If you are a person of faith would it alter your faith? Why, either way? Whether you're of faith or not, would you have a strong opinion on whether such life was brought here on Earth? Would you have strong opinions on us "bothering" such life?

I'd be interested, not so much in single celled. Wouldn't affect my faith in the least. I just feel rules that govern on place work elsewhere. I don't think it could possibly survive any contact with Earth. I have zero issues with human interference not many of us will have access to it limiting abuse. Id want to know all it DNA if it has it.
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Reply #1 posted 06/13/19 11:43pm

KingBAD

the part that folks fail to see is that it doesn't matter IF folks care

because they been findin life in every sample that they've gotten...

just because it is microscopic life doesn't make it a non livin thing...

and if there are microbes out there there are a million other things

that live out there....

THEN TOO...

folks need to come to the realization that IF you are bein shown

or told anything about "new discoveries" you're just bein told about

things that they know way more about than they are willin to let on...

i'm an avid sci fi guy er since i was a baby and i came to the conclusion

that top secret means TOP SECRET and fitty years is how long they keep

info hid on ANYTHING/EVERYTHING they deem new...

i use 'they' so it could be the voices in my head and that makes what i

say NON POLITICAL...

and AND whenever someone uses 'we' there has to be a 'them'....

"baby, I just can't stand 2 see U happy, more than that, I hate 2 see U sad."

i am KING BAD!!!
you are NOT...
evilking
"KingBAD, well you are just a troll" (an emotional fan)
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Reply #2 posted 06/14/19 12:33am

EmmaMcG

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Even the Catholic Church have come around to the possibility of life on other planets. So I don't think any religious person would change their beliefs.

But to think that of all the trillions of planets known to exist that life is only possible on one is so staggeringly arrogant that it defies belief itself. Life on other planets is pretty much a certainty. Microbial life can exist pretty much anywhere. Intelligent life, as we know it, is slightly less certain and certainly less common throughout the universe. But given the number of habitable planets there are, again it's pretty much guaranteed that intelligent life exists somewhere. The universe is a big place. In fact, it's the biggest place. Which also means that humans and "aliens" will never come into contact with each other. So we'll never know for sure that intelligent life exists despite the fact that we do kind of know it.
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Reply #3 posted 06/14/19 3:37am

Dancelot

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EmmaMcG said:

Which also means that humans and "aliens" will never come into contact with each other.

disagree. universe is big but we also have big timespans to get into contact. not we as individuals but earth/humans in general (or whatever other species rules in the future)


contact with radio communication is almost inevitable at some point

but even physical contact would be no problem really. even with travelling speeds way beyond the speed of light it would take just a few million of years to colonize our own entire galaxy, which is nothing compared to the age of the universe. plenty of high technology civilizations should be already out there WAY older than humanity


the Fermi Paradox sums it up pretty nice

where the fuck is everybody? biggrin



https://waitbutwhy.com/20...radox.html



and coming back to the original thread topic, this also explains why we should NOT be happy to find even primitive (eukaryotic) life in our OWN solar system, cause it could mean that as a species we're probably fucked and doomed for wipe-out by The Great Filter, which then would be ahead of us geek



This is why Oxford University philosopher Nick Bostrom says that “no news is good news.” The discovery of even simple life on Mars would be devastating, because it would cut out a number of potential Great Filters behind us. And if we were to find fossilized complex life on Mars, Bostrom says “it would be by far the worst news ever printed on a newspaper cover,” because it would mean The Great Filter is almost definitely ahead of us—ultimately dooming the species. Bostrom believes that when it comes to The Fermi Paradox, “the silence of the night sky is golden.”

[Edited 6/14/19 5:40am]

Vanglorious... this is protected by the red, the black, and the green. With a key... sissy!
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Reply #4 posted 06/14/19 5:45am

XxAxX

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yes. of course i would care!

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Reply #5 posted 06/14/19 6:19am

benni

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onlyforaminute said:

Would you care if it were single-cell? If you are a person of faith would it alter your faith? Why, either way? Whether you're of faith or not, would you have a strong opinion on whether such life was brought here on Earth? Would you have strong opinions on us "bothering" such life? I'd be interested, not so much in single celled. Wouldn't affect my faith in the least. I just feel rules that govern on place work elsewhere. I don't think it could possibly survive any contact with Earth. I have zero issues with human interference not many of us will have access to it limiting abuse. Id want to know all it DNA if it has it.


My question is, when it comes to religion, why would you have to change your beliefs? Genesis says God created the earth and the heavens, and no where does it say that he only created life on earth. Adam and Eve were the first man and the first woman, per the Bible, but that does not mean they were the only man and woman created.


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Reply #6 posted 06/14/19 7:37am

RodeoSchro

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Of course I would, and I'd give all the glory to God.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #7 posted 06/14/19 10:52am

onlyforaminute

Im just talking about this solar system, something that earthlings can interact with. Less in a galaxy far far away to something we can actually touch, taste and feel in the near future.
[Edited 6/14/19 11:07am]
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Reply #8 posted 06/14/19 11:21am

onlyforaminute

benni said:



onlyforaminute said:


Would you care if it were single-cell? If you are a person of faith would it alter your faith? Why, either way? Whether you're of faith or not, would you have a strong opinion on whether such life was brought here on Earth? Would you have strong opinions on us "bothering" such life? I'd be interested, not so much in single celled. Wouldn't affect my faith in the least. I just feel rules that govern on place work elsewhere. I don't think it could possibly survive any contact with Earth. I have zero issues with human interference not many of us will have access to it limiting abuse. Id want to know all it DNA if it has it.


My question is, when it comes to religion, why would you have to change your beliefs? Genesis says God created the earth and the heavens, and no where does it say that he only created life on earth. Adam and Eve were the first man and the first woman, per the Bible, but that does not mean they were the only man and woman created.





I don't know every religious opinion on it. I'm not all knowing so I'm asking is there a different opinion than mine.
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Reply #9 posted 06/14/19 11:25am

EmmaMcG

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RodeoSchro said:

Of course I would, and I'd give all the glory to God.



I can't tell if you're serious or not.
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Reply #10 posted 06/14/19 11:33am

RodeoSchro

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EmmaMcG said:

RodeoSchro said:

Of course I would, and I'd give all the glory to God.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.



100% serious.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #11 posted 06/14/19 11:37am

onlyforaminute

EmmaMcG said:

Even the Catholic Church have come around to the possibility of life on other planets. So I don't think any religious person would change their beliefs.

But to think that of all the trillions of planets known to exist that life is only possible on one is so staggeringly arrogant that it defies belief itself. Life on other planets is pretty much a certainty. Microbial life can exist pretty much anywhere. Intelligent life, as we know it, is slightly less certain and certainly less common throughout the universe. But given the number of habitable planets there are, again it's pretty much guaranteed that intelligent life exists somewhere. The universe is a big place. In fact, it's the biggest place. Which also means that humans and "aliens" will never come into contact with each other. So we'll never know for sure that intelligent life exists despite the fact that we do kind of know it.



You know microbial life exists pretty much everywhere based on what? Belief? I mean I do BELIEVE that life can exist elsewhere besides here, but it really still up in the air on its frequency. What if this planet is the only life we discover in just this solar system? I would think the underlying rules change. Other factors would have to be at play to jumpstart life.
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Reply #12 posted 06/14/19 12:01pm

luv4u

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The universe is very big. And yes there is life out there other than human!

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Reply #13 posted 06/14/19 12:23pm

onlyforaminute

neutral Are people really that terrified of a simple question? Getting a specific answer around these parts alwayz seems to be met with an f-you response. Saying you believe life exist in the universe doesn't answer the question I'm asking at all and I've already explained why.
[Edited 6/14/19 13:01pm]
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Reply #14 posted 06/14/19 1:09pm

EmmaMcG

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onlyforaminute said:

EmmaMcG said:

Even the Catholic Church have come around to the possibility of life on other planets. So I don't think any religious person would change their beliefs.

But to think that of all the trillions of planets known to exist that life is only possible on one is so staggeringly arrogant that it defies belief itself. Life on other planets is pretty much a certainty. Microbial life can exist pretty much anywhere. Intelligent life, as we know it, is slightly less certain and certainly less common throughout the universe. But given the number of habitable planets there are, again it's pretty much guaranteed that intelligent life exists somewhere. The universe is a big place. In fact, it's the biggest place. Which also means that humans and "aliens" will never come into contact with each other. So we'll never know for sure that intelligent life exists despite the fact that we do kind of know it.



You know microbial life exists pretty much everywhere based on what? Belief? I mean I do BELIEVE that life can exist elsewhere besides here, but it really still up in the air on its frequency. What if this planet is the only life we discover in just this solar system? I would think the underlying rules change. Other factors would have to be at play to jumpstart life.


I never said it was something we "know". I said it's "pretty much" a guarantee. Based on how here on Earth, microbial life is EVERYWHERE. From the Arctic to the Sahara Desert. All environments. And if that's the case here on this planet, then what are the odds that this is the only planet out of trillions that can support such life? It's simple deductive reasoning.
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Reply #15 posted 06/14/19 1:36pm

onlyforaminute

EmmaMcG said:

onlyforaminute said:




You know microbial life exists pretty much everywhere based on what? Belief? I mean I do BELIEVE that life can exist elsewhere besides here, but it really still up in the air on its frequency. What if this planet is the only life we discover in just this solar system? I would think the underlying rules change. Other factors would have to be at play to jumpstart life.


I never said it was something we "know". I said it's "pretty much" a guarantee. Based on how here on Earth, microbial life is EVERYWHERE. From the Arctic to the Sahara Desert. All environments. And if that's the case here on this planet, then what are the odds that this is the only planet out of trillions that can support such life? It's simple deductive reasoning.



Before i get too blunt. I do 100% understand what you're saying. But this is a very tiny place with a whole lotta factors at play which may or may not contribute to the existence of life. So far we assume some things based on an educated imagination, not empirical truth. Granted the world is in the process of finding that out within in the next, say, 20 years. It can go either way. If is discovered that within this solar system life only exist on Earth, would it be a shock? And I brought religion up because there does seem to be those who can't wait to rub it in religious people's face if life is abundant other than here which makes no sense if most religious people alrsady believe it is abundant. Seems I'm missing something.
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Reply #16 posted 06/14/19 2:10pm

EmmaMcG

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onlyforaminute said:

EmmaMcG said:



I never said it was something we "know". I said it's "pretty much" a guarantee. Based on how here on Earth, microbial life is EVERYWHERE. From the Arctic to the Sahara Desert. All environments. And if that's the case here on this planet, then what are the odds that this is the only planet out of trillions that can support such life? It's simple deductive reasoning.



Before i get too blunt. I do 100% understand what you're saying. But this is a very tiny place with a whole lotta factors at play which may or may not contribute to the existence of life. So far we assume some things based on an educated imagination, not empirical truth. Granted the world is in the process of finding that out within in the next, say, 20 years. It can go either way. If is discovered that within this solar system life only exist on Earth, would it be a shock? And I brought religion up because there does seem to be those who can't wait to rub it in religious people's face if life is abundant other than here which makes no sense if most religious people alrsady believe it is abundant. Seems I'm missing something.


If it was proven that without a shadow of a doubt that life (in any form) existed only on this planet, then it would be a surprise to me.

However, to reference your point about religion, if it was proven that life was abundant throughout the solar system, I would NOT "rub it in the face" of religious people. It's well documented here that I do not believe in god or anything of that nature. But I do respect the beliefs of others. Now, I won't lie, I'd probably make a few snide comments to RodeoSchro about it. But that would be entirely in jest because I know he's cool enough to accept it as the joke it would be meant as.
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Reply #17 posted 06/14/19 4:47pm

onlyforaminute

EmmaMcG said:

onlyforaminute said:




Before i get too blunt. I do 100% understand what you're saying. But this is a very tiny place with a whole lotta factors at play which may or may not contribute to the existence of life. So far we assume some things based on an educated imagination, not empirical truth. Granted the world is in the process of finding that out within in the next, say, 20 years. It can go either way. If is discovered that within this solar system life only exist on Earth, would it be a shock? And I brought religion up because there does seem to be those who can't wait to rub it in religious people's face if life is abundant other than here which makes no sense if most religious people alrsady believe it is abundant. Seems I'm missing something.


If it was proven that without a shadow of a doubt that life (in any form) existed only on this planet, then it would be a surprise to me.

However, to reference your point about religion, if it was proven that life was abundant throughout the solar system, I would NOT "rub it in the face" of religious people. It's well documented here that I do not believe in god or anything of that nature. But I do respect the beliefs of others. Now, I won't lie, I'd probably make a few snide comments to RodeoSchro about it. But that would be entirely in jest because I know he's cool enough to accept it as the joke it would be meant as.


I don't think you personally would but it seems there are those who can't wait which again seems silly if an overwhelming number of religious people would be just as excited about it as non-religious people what's the point. Rodeo is perfectly capable of handling himself, I'll just watch in silent amusement.

I doubt we're able to scour the entire solar system, that would take up resources we need to live and live well, a shadow of doubt is a bit much, would it be fair to say at least the suspect moons? It won't change in the least that life even complex intelligent life exist in the universe. But i would guess it would change the range of conditions the cause life to exist. Anyway, i didn't want a religion discussion but i didn't want to exclude it. Plus i was curious if people know what's going on right now.
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Reply #18 posted 06/14/19 4:54pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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I don't think it would affect anyone's faith really, unless that 'belief' teaches that there is no one else out there.


There is a lot in the bible (for example) that actually hints to a bigger picture in the universe.

Many people do and have had discussions about these possibilities.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
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Reply #19 posted 06/14/19 6:26pm

onlyforaminute

OldFriends4Sale said:



I don't think it would affect anyone's faith really, unless that 'belief' teaches that there is no one else out there.


There is a lot in the bible (for example) that actually hints to a bigger picture in the universe.


Many people do and have had discussions about these possibilities.






I don't know. I'm still reeling about people believing the earth is flat. Talk about something coming out of left field. So i don't want to assume too either.

But I am aware thst people do have a wide range of views, just curious.
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Reply #20 posted 06/14/19 7:14pm

tump

The criminal Vatican owns all the most powerful telescopes in the world. They have the knowledge of thousands of years hidden for nobody to see. They feed the masses nursery rhymes to manipulate and control to the maximum extent. I guess this answers some questions, even if it was on a tangent.
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Reply #21 posted 06/14/19 8:15pm

onlyforaminute

KingBAD said:

the part that folks fail to see is that it doesn't matter IF folks care


because they been findin life in every sample that they've gotten...


just because it is microscopic life doesn't make it a non livin thing...


and if there are microbes out there there are a million other things


that live out there....


THEN TOO...


folks need to come to the realization that IF you are bein shown


or told anything about "new discoveries" you're just bein told about


things that they know way more about than they are willin to let on...


i'm an avid sci fi guy er since i was a baby and i came to the conclusion


that top secret means TOP SECRET and fitty years is how long they keep


info hid on ANYTHING/EVERYTHING they deem new...


i use 'they' so it could be the voices in my head and that makes what i


say NON POLITICAL...


and AND whenever someone uses 'we' there has to be a 'them'....









"baby, I just can't stand 2 see U happy, more than that, I hate 2 see U sad."




Ha. Imma leave most this alone.

I'll just say as of date we've only brought back samples from the Moon and a couple of asteroids, never heard anything about finding microbes in any of them. The only time I've heard about the possibility of outer space microbes were fossilized particles in an meteorite that was found on earth, that fell here a few million years ago. I have nothing else if everything comes down to they've lied about evetything, that's a big blanket statement that dismisses a lot of people's lifelong work with little to no effort.
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Reply #22 posted 06/15/19 8:59am

kpowers

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I'm ok if they are like this

Image result for wicket ewok gif

and not

Image result for alien gif

or

Image result for jar jar binks gif

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Reply #23 posted 06/17/19 9:28am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Between Darwinists and Creationists are the Sitchinites

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #24 posted 06/17/19 1:52pm

Number23

tump said:

The criminal Vatican owns all the most powerful telescopes in the world. They have the knowledge of thousands of years hidden for nobody to see. They feed the masses nursery rhymes to manipulate and control to the maximum extent. I guess this answers some questions, even if it was on a tangent.

Greatest reply I've ever seen.
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Reply #25 posted 06/18/19 1:33am

databank

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It would make the headlines and be quickly forgotten I fear. Even if we found evidence of intelligent life the odds that we could make contact are so little that it would change nothing for us. Strangely, discovering life out there would at the same time be one of the most important discovery in human history and a relatively inconsequential one.
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #26 posted 06/18/19 10:38am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Area 51, Nevada, USA

No wonder the state of Nevada named the State Route 375 officially the "Extraterrestrial Highway" in 1996. Along the road, travelers have reported UFO sightings and alien activity, and for decades have met at a mailbox – 12 miles from Area 51 – to discuss them.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #27 posted 06/18/19 11:51am

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Yes. I will cry.

2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #28 posted 06/18/19 4:10pm

lust

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onlyforaminute said:

Im just talking about this solar system, something that earthlings can interact with. Less in a galaxy far far away to something we can actually touch, taste and feel in the near future.
[Edited 6/14/19 11:07am]


I’d be extremely excited by it.

I wouldn’t fuckin’ taste it though!

Not a theist myself but imagine the spread of opinions amongst the religious would be as varied as other discoveries such as being on a sphere in a heliocentric orbit and evolution that supposedly rocked the foundations of the religion. From total acceptance within the framework of faith to absolute denial and conspiracy theories.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #29 posted 06/20/19 6:14am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Heaven's Gate was an American UFO religious millenarian cult based near San Diego, California. It was founded in 1974 and led by Marshall Applewhite (1931–1997) and Bonnie Nettles (1927–1985). On March 26, 1997, members of the San Diego County Sheriff's Department discovered the bodies of 39 members of the group in a house in the San Diego suburb of Rancho Santa Fe. They had participated in a mass suicide; specifically, a coordinated series of ritual suicides, in order to reach what they believed was an extraterrestrial spacecraft following Comet Hale–Bopp.

Just before the mass suicide, the group's website was updated with the message: "Hale–Bopp brings closure to Heaven's Gate ... Our 22 years of classroom here on planet Earth is finally coming to conclusion – 'graduation' from the Human Evolutionary Level. We are happily prepared to leave 'this world' and go with Ti's crew."[

.

Belief system

Heaven's Gate members believed the planet Earth would be "recycled" ("wiped clean, renewed, refurbished, and rejuvenated") before 2027 and the only chance for their consciousness (defined sometimes as soul or mind) to survive was to leave their human bodies at an appointed time. Initially the group had been told that they would be transported with their bodies on board a spacecraft that would come to Earth and take the crew to heaven, referred to as the "next level". When Bonnie Lou Nettles (Ti) died of cancer in 1985, it confounded Applewhite's doctrine because Nettles was allegedly chosen by the next level to be a messenger on Earth, yet her body died instead of leaving physically to outer space. The belief system was then refined to include the leaving of consciousness from the body as equivalent to leaving the Earth in a spacecraft.

While the group was against suicide, they defined "suicide" in their own context to mean "to turn against the Next Level when it is being offered" and believed their "human" bodies were only vessels meant to help them on their journey. Suicide, therefore, would be not allowing their consciousness to leave their human bodies to join the next level; remaining alive instead of participating in the group suicide was considered suicide of their consciousness. In conversation, when referring to a person or a person's body, they routinely used the word "vehicle".

The members of the group added -ody to the first names they adopted in lieu of their original given names, which defines "children of the Next Level". This is mentioned in Applewhite's final video, Do's Final Exit, filmed March 19–20, 1997, just days prior to the suicides.

They believed that, "to be eligible for membership in the Next Level, humans would have to shed every attachment to the planet". This meant all members had to give up all human-like characteristics, such as their family, friends, sexuality, individuality, jobs, money, and possessions.

"The Evolutionary Level Above Human" (TELAH) was as a "physical, corporeal place", another world in our universe, where residents live in pure bliss and nourish themselves by absorbing pure sunlight. At the next level, beings do not engage in sexual intercourse, eating or dying, the things that make us "mammalian" here. Heaven's Gate believed that what the Bible calls God is actually a highly developed Extraterrestrial.

Members of Heaven's Gate believed that evil space aliens – called Luciferians – falsely represented themselves to Earthlings as "God" and conspired to keep humans from developing. Technically advanced humanoids, these aliens have spacecraft, space-time travel, telepathy, and increased longevity. They use holograms to fake miracles. Carnal beings with gender, they stopped training to achieve the Kingdom of God thousands of years ago. Heaven's Gate believed that all existing religions on Earth had been corrupted by these malevolent aliens.

Although these basic beliefs of the group stayed generally consistent over the years, "the details of their ideology were flexible enough to undergo modification over time."[69] There are examples of the group's adding to or slightly changing their beliefs, such as: modifying the way one can enter the Next Level, changing the way they described themselves, placing more importance on the idea of Satan, and adding several other New Age concepts. One of these concepts was the belief of extraterrestrial walk-ins; when the group began, "Applewhite and Nettles taught their followers that they were extraterrestrial beings. However, after the notion of walk-ins became popular within the New Age subculture, the Two changed their tune and began describing themselves as extraterrestrial walk-ins." The idea of walk-ins is very similar to the concept of being possessed by spirits. A walk-in can be defined as "an entity who occupies a body that has been vacated by its original soul". Heaven's Gate came to believe an extraterrestrial walk-in is "a walk-in that is supposedly from another planet."

The concept of walk-ins aided Applewhite and Nettles in personally starting from what they considered to be clean slates. In this so-called clean slate, they were no longer considered by members of this Heaven's Gate group to be the people they had been prior to the start of the group, but had taken on a new life; this concept gave them a way to "erase their human personal histories as the histories of souls who formerly occupied the bodies of Applewhite and Nettles." Over time Applewhite also refined his identity in the group to encourage the belief that the "walk in" that was inhabiting his body was the same that had done so to Jesus 2,000 years ago. Similar to Nestorianism this belief stated that the personage of Jesus and the spirit of Jesus were separable. This meant that Jesus was simply the name of the body of an ordinary man that held no sacred properties that was taken over by an incorporeal sacred entity to deliver "next level" information.

Another New Age belief Applewhite and Nettles adopted was the ancient astronaut hypothesis. The term "ancient astronauts" is used to refer to various forms of the concept that extraterrestrials visited Earth in the distant past.[69] Applewhite and Nettles took part of this concept and taught it as the belief that "aliens planted the seeds of current humanity millions of years ago, and have to come to reap the harvest of their work in the form of spiritually evolved individuals who will join the ranks of flying saucer crews. Only a select few members of humanity will be chosen to advance to this transhuman state. The rest will be left to wallow in the spiritually poisoned atmosphere of a corrupt world." Only the individuals who chose to join Heaven's Gate, follow Applewhite and Nettle's belief system, and make the sacrifices required by membership would be allowed to escape human suffering.

Techniques to enter the next level

According to Heaven's Gate, once the individual has perfected himself through the "process", there were four methods to enter or "graduate" to the next level:

Physical pickup onto a TELAH spacecraft and transfer to a next level body aboard that craft. In this version, what Professor Zeller calls a "UFO" version of the "Rapture", an alien spacecraft would descend to Earth, collect Applewhite, Nettles, and their followers, and their human bodies would be transformed through biological and chemical processes to perfected beings. This and other UFO-related beliefs held by the group have led some observers to characterize the group as a type of UFO religion.Natural death, accidental death, or death from random violence. Here, the "graduating soul" leaves the human container for a perfected next-level body. Outside persecution that leads to death. After the deaths of the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas and the events involving Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge, Applewhite was afraid that the American government would murder the members of Heaven's Gate. Willful exit from the body in a dignified manner. Near the end, Applewhite had a revelation that they may have to abandon their human bodies and achieve the next level as Jesus had done. This occurred on March 22 and 23 when 39 members committed suicide and "graduated".

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