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Thread started 11/12/17 1:57pm

SoftSkarlettLo
visa

Was Michael Jackson's fame a little overrated, lol?

Don't get me wrong. I love Michael Jackson, like millions on this earth. Of course, he made some of the greatest music ever.

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.

Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?

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Reply #1 posted 11/12/17 2:11pm

MickyDolenz

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence

People brought up handicapped and blind kids up to The Beatles and thought the Fab 4 could cure them

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor
Each generation has their music that they fall in love with, that makes it special to them ~ Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #2 posted 11/12/17 3:32pm

laurarichardso
n

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Don't get me wrong. I love Michael Jackson, like millions on this earth. Of course, he made some of the greatest music ever.

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.

Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?

no, he sold 40 million album in one swoop. It was not overated.

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Reply #3 posted 11/12/17 3:40pm

CynicKill

Yeah I never got that side of his fame either.

Number one no one is carrying me off passed out from a show that it took a miracle to get into in the first place!

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Reply #4 posted 11/12/17 4:35pm

Free2BMe

laurarichardson said:



SoftSkarlettLovisa said:


Don't get me wrong. I love Michael Jackson, like millions on this earth. Of course, he made some of the greatest music ever.

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.



Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?



no, he sold 40 million album in one swoop. It was not overated.



No, his celebrity status was not overrated. There was just something about him that can't be explained. He had, and still has an effect on people that is awe-inspiring. I have read of people who say that when he walked into a room, it was if the molecules, or something to that effect, changed. Btw, these were famous people, not just the regular MJ fan.

I remember when he came to my city during the Bad tour, he could have sold out two weeks of tickets or more; however, he was only scheduled for three shows and people were actually crying when they couldn't get tickets.There were hundreds of people outside the venue wanting to get in, because it was rumored that another show would be added.

Bottomline, is that there has never been any other artist in history who has had the type of celebrity and fame that Michael had . Even with all of the shit and negativity that Michael had to endure, his celebrity still prevailed. Thus the reason that he SOLD-OUT 50 shows in ONE city with no new album, no promotion, no interviews; nothing except his name and celebrity.

No, his fame was not overrated.
Of course, you have some who want to tear down Michael , in order to build up their favorite. Pathetic and immature!
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Reply #5 posted 11/12/17 4:52pm

journalism16

Free2BMe said:

laurarichardson said:



SoftSkarlettLovisa said:


Don't get me wrong. I love Michael Jackson, like millions on this earth. Of course, he made some of the greatest music ever.

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.



Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?



no, he sold 40 million album in one swoop. It was not overated.



No, his celebrity status was not overrated. There was just something about him that can't be explained. He had, and still has an effect on people that is awe-inspiring. I have read of people who say that when he walked into a room, it was if the molecules, or something to that effect, changed. Btw, these were famous people, not just the regular MJ fan.

I remember when he came to my city during the Bad tour, he could have sold out two weeks of tickets or more; however, he was only scheduled for three shows and people were actually crying when they couldn't get tickets.There were hundreds of people outside the venue wanting to get in, because it was rumored that another show would be added.

Bottomline, is that there has never been any other artist in history who has had the type of celebrity and fame that Michael had . Even with all of the shit and negativity that Michael had to endure, his celebrity still prevailed. Thus the reason that he SOLD-OUT 50 shows in ONE city with no new album, no promotion, no interviews; nothing except his name and celebrity.

No, his fame was not overrated.
Of course, you have some who want to tear down Michael , in order to build up their favorite. Pathetic and immature!


I definitely and wholeheartedly agree with you.
Erin Smith
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Reply #6 posted 11/12/17 5:41pm

TheFman

yes it was. His big fame album consisted of the duet with the big name, a lot of songs written by others, solo's by famous musicians, and songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.
Billie Jean and Beat It (at the time) where of course super-solid songs, add 'wanna be starting something' and you have 3 songs deserving of greatness. But 3 songs dont deserve THAT kind of godlikeness.
The rest of his carreer, going forward, was mainly milked on that earlier hype: add some mystery, some weirdness, and of course the grab-my-little-balls-or hat-poses and the whaaaaa scream.

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Reply #7 posted 11/12/17 5:49pm

MickyDolenz

TheFman said:

songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.

Only 3 of 7 singles on Thriller had a video. So the other 4 made Top 10 on the Hot 100 on their own. The other 2 songs (Lady In My Life, Baby Be Mine) also got radio airplay. So your comment has nothing to do with 6 of the songs being popular.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor
Each generation has their music that they fall in love with, that makes it special to them ~ Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #8 posted 11/12/17 5:54pm

MickyDolenz

Also the 1st 4 singles the Jackson 5 released reached #1 on the Hot 100 and they had no music videos, and MTV didn't exist.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor
Each generation has their music that they fall in love with, that makes it special to them ~ Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #9 posted 11/12/17 6:50pm

Scorp

TheFman said:

yes it was. His big fame album consisted of the duet with the big name, a lot of songs written by others, solo's by famous musicians, and songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.
Billie Jean and Beat It (at the time) where of course super-solid songs, add 'wanna be starting something' and you have 3 songs deserving of greatness. But 3 songs dont deserve THAT kind of godlikeness.
The rest of his carreer, going forward, was mainly milked on that earlier hype: add some mystery, some weirdness, and of course the grab-my-little-balls-or hat-poses and the whaaaaa scream.

What really happened was the image perspective overtook the talent perspective and undermind it

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Reply #10 posted 11/12/17 7:48pm

CynicKill

This video says it all:

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Reply #11 posted 11/13/17 1:25am

laurarichardso
n

TheFman said:

yes it was. His big fame album consisted of the duet with the big name, a lot of songs written by others, solo's by famous musicians, and songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.
Billie Jean and Beat It (at the time) where of course super-solid songs, add 'wanna be starting something' and you have 3 songs deserving of greatness. But 3 songs dont deserve THAT kind of godlikeness.
The rest of his carreer, going forward, was mainly milked on that earlier hype: add some mystery, some weirdness, and of course the grab-my-little-balls-or hat-poses and the whaaaaa scream.




-He Sold 40 million albums at one time and he could afford to rest. When someone else pulls this off let me know.
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Reply #12 posted 11/13/17 3:22am

TheFman

MickyDolenz said:

TheFman said:

songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.

Only 3 of 7 singles on Thriller had a video. So the other 4 made Top 10 on the Hot 100 on their own. The other 2 songs (Lady In My Life, Baby Be Mine) also got radio airplay. So your comment has nothing to do with 6 of the songs being popular.

That's silly,

the video's came as 2nd and 3th single, so the 'damage' was done for the next releases. And then the last single with the mega-video really took him on 'that' level, because of the video.

And Jackson 5 stuff was mainly before this happened, and he had not 'that' aura so that's irrelevant wink

Thriller was also my favorite album before Purple Rain came out, I'm not breaking anything down, just trying to say that yes that adoreship level was a tad too much.

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Reply #13 posted 11/13/17 3:59am

purplethunder3
121

avatar

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Don't get me wrong. I love Michael Jackson, like millions on this earth. Of course, he made some of the greatest music ever.

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.

Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?

You had to be there.

Find strength in that which remains...
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Reply #14 posted 11/13/17 4:48am

laurarichardso
n

TheFman said:

MickyDolenz said:

Only 3 of 7 singles on Thriller had a video. So the other 4 made Top 10 on the Hot 100 on their own. The other 2 songs (Lady In My Life, Baby Be Mine) also got radio airplay. So your comment has nothing to do with 6 of the songs being popular.

That's silly,

the video's came as 2nd and 3th single, so the 'damage' was done for the next releases. And then the last single with the mega-video really took him on 'that' level, because of the video.

And Jackson 5 stuff was mainly before this happened, and he had not 'that' aura so that's irrelevant wink

Thriller was also my favorite album before Purple Rain came out, I'm not breaking anything down, just trying to say that yes that adoreship level was a tad too much.

The marketplace makes the decision on these things. Millions of albums being sold and fans screaming is not too much if it is real. That is the difference between a real phenomean and hype.

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Reply #15 posted 11/13/17 7:28am

novabrkr

Seeing Michael Jackson live was the next biggest thing from seeing Jesus stand in front of you. That's how it felt back in the day, if you were a teenager, at the very least.

And, no, his fame wasn't just something that was caused and maintained by performing live "big songs" from Thriller like "Billie Jean" or "Beat It". People loved songs like "Dirty Diana", "Smooth Criminal" and "Black Or White" just as much when they came out.

Yeah, sure. People should have been listening to Prince instead, but that's a whole another aspect of it. wink

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Reply #16 posted 11/13/17 7:44am

TheFman

i saw live the opening concert of history tour, that was major dissapointment, at least compared to Prince concerts!

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Reply #17 posted 11/13/17 9:37am

laurarichardso
n

TheFman said:

i saw live the opening concert of history tour, that was major dissapointment, at least compared to Prince concerts!

I thought we were discussing the mania over "Thriller" not his concerts.

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Reply #18 posted 11/13/17 10:15am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #19 posted 11/13/17 10:52am

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

TheFman said:

yes it was. His big fame album consisted of the duet with the big name, a lot of songs written by others, solo's by famous musicians, and songs mainly being popular because of the videoclips.
Billie Jean and Beat It (at the time) where of course super-solid songs, add 'wanna be starting something' and you have 3 songs deserving of greatness. But 3 songs dont deserve THAT kind of godlikeness.
The rest of his carreer, going forward, was mainly milked on that earlier hype: add some mystery, some weirdness, and of course the grab-my-little-balls-or hat-poses and the whaaaaa scream.

This is incorrect and based on your mentioning of Prince in your later post, it's obvious where this is coming from and where you're trying to take this topic.

To answer the OP, no, MJ's fame was not overrated. The very fact that people fainted in his presence should be more than enough evidence that Michael was more than just simple hype. Michael Jackson is the latest poster boy (after Elvis) for "star power".
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Reply #20 posted 11/13/17 10:54am

TheFman

laurarichardson said:

TheFman said:

i saw live the opening concert of history tour, that was major dissapointment, at least compared to Prince concerts!

I thought we were discussing the mania over "Thriller" not his concerts.

i thought we were discussing the mania over Michael Jackson, not Thriller.

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Reply #21 posted 11/13/17 10:55am

StrangeButTrue

avatar

No way! And he didn't diddle any kiddles either. This is all ignorance.

if it was just a dream, call me a dreamer 2
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Reply #22 posted 11/13/17 11:46am

laurarichardso
n

TheFman said:

laurarichardson said:

I thought we were discussing the mania over "Thriller" not his concerts.

i thought we were discussing the mania over Michael Jackson, not Thriller.

There was mania over both and I am not sure how you separate them both. How old are you?

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Reply #23 posted 11/13/17 12:11pm

robertgeorge

I disagree with the premise of this thread. Michael Jackson fame was at a supernova level. Everybody knew Michael Jackson. He has maintained that fame (and notoriety) and young kids and teens are still aware of him. He is like Elvis, the Beatles as one of those names that retain perpetual acclaim despite the years. Cirque De Soleil, Youtube etc has maintained his vigor as a celebrity name.

If you mean (as I suspect I may have misinterpreted) did he deserve the fame, the status of being above others (and yes even as a fan of a lot of what he did the decreeing himself the King of Pop (and rock and rnb and soul) grated on the nerves in the end) To this I would say most people don't deserve fame to the extent they receive it. This is where hype and promotion, acclaim and the unchecked emotion of the fan(atic) comes into it.

I feel that Michael Jackson attained a Tsunami level of fame that once at that apex was able to sustain itself through lulls. It became accepted fact, common knowledge that he was a star. I believe the Beatles and Elvis (my two prime examples) achieved this status. How did this happen? I haven't got a definitive answer, like John Lennon once said, if he knew he would manage 10 groups and sit at home.

However, what I will say is that Michael Jackson hit STAR MOMENTS. For myself Prince became my favourite artist (with Bowie, the Beatles and the Cure closely following) at a particular moment. It was a definite time. Right after Let's Go Crazy (then he followed it up with The Beautiful Ones and it was like forget about it). Michael jackson had star moments. He had Billy Jean at the Mowton 25th, the Thriller video, Moonwalking, The Billy Jean video, in fact so many of the videos, the rock and pop mix with Beat It. It helps to have the mass hysteria effect, peer pressure and herd mentality as everyone bought or was aware of Thriller. STAR MOMENTS are when you become aware this person is special and no matter what you do they will always be a star or superstar in your mind (regardless of logic or output.

I remember how Michael Jackson was presented. His videos were events, specially airing on channels like an event. Did he maintain the quality to maintain that title. Of course not, because nobody can! But he had done enough to deserve and qualify that level of fame. In fact any other male artist has the plastic surgery and child molestation charges and they are sunk under a rock into the abyss of pop music trivia (Gary Glitter anyone?)

Michael Jackson had a stellar child star career, a credible teen career, parlayed that into the stellar Off the Wall, Thriler for its success is the hope diamond/ the centrepiece of his career (just a great album that sprouted wings), Bad was huge, Dangerous (is a fantastic album, a one-two punch as Prince was regaining zeitgeist with Diamonds and Pearls), and then it starts getting stretched....

History had some solid songs, Blood on the Dancefloor had a awesome single (IMHO), Invincible - I just wasn't feeling the hubris and hyperbole at this point, and perhaps the facepant and "razzle dazzle" was wearing off for me. So on a personal level subjectively, he did start to tarnish the fame that he had achieved, perhaps by overexposure, inconsistency acting like the aging heavyweight claiming he could still knock out the up and comers best with their middling performances (Prince had a stage of this).

However I still maintain he did enough to keep that star power for the public. I don't like to think he did anything bad with the kids, but lets just say it has cast a shadow on his legacy that I don't choose to explore intellectually.

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Reply #24 posted 11/13/17 12:20pm

TheFman

laurarichardson said:

TheFman said:

i thought we were discussing the mania over Michael Jackson, not Thriller.

There was mania over both and I am not sure how you separate them both. How old are you?

what's that supposed to mean?

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Reply #25 posted 11/13/17 12:27pm

musicman

CynicKill said:

Yeah I never got that side of his fame either.

Number one no one is carrying me off passed out from a show that it took a miracle to get into in the first place!

lol I know that's right! I always thought that too when I would see people passing out at his concerts.

If I recall, even MJ wondered about people passing out and even doing those types of stadium shows- he said he didn't know how people could even see anything.

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Reply #26 posted 11/13/17 12:42pm

CoolMF

robertgeorge said:

I disagree with the premise of this thread. Michael Jackson fame was at a supernova level. Everybody knew Michael Jackson. He has maintained that fame (and notoriety) and young kids and teens are still aware of him. He is like Elvis, the Beatles as one of those names that retain perpetual acclaim despite the years. Cirque De Soleil, Youtube etc has maintained his vigor as a celebrity name.

Agreed.

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Reply #27 posted 11/13/17 2:01pm

NorthC

Fame cannot be overrated. Either you're famous or you're not. Even if between Thriller and Bad, he didn't release a single note and only made the headlines by sleeping in an oxygen tank and other goofy stories, he was still making the headlines. No such thing as bad publicity,he must have thought. Was Michael Jackson the artist overrated? Most certainly, simply because he was so famous, just like The King of Rock & Roll really wasn't better at playing rock & roll than others. But I guess there was just something about these guys...
Don't ever lose your dreams.
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Reply #28 posted 11/13/17 2:33pm

214

OldFriends4Sale said:

This one is beautiful.

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Reply #29 posted 11/13/17 11:36pm

2045RadicalMat
tZ

It was a BIT unheralded, and nevertheless EXPLOITED. ..

but he was famous well before he made thriller.



I'll just add this bit.

Seems that MANY OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS ERE ORG, are THE TYPE THAT WOULDN'T ATTEND SWEATY ASS GIGS IN PUBS AND BRICK HOLES. ...

So ....as such. ....you phoney ass wannabe concert goers wouldn't REALIZE a PRACTICAL situation at MJJ concerts. ..



THERE WASN'T ENOUGH FUCKING ***AIR***!

People clustered and forced themselves forward. Many NEW CONCERT FANS for whom THIS WAS THEIR FIRST EVER SHOW.

Imagine being pushed in a pit at a sweaty metal show at the note defunct HOUSE OF CLUES or on the floor at THE TROUBADOUR. ...

if people are pushing, you'll be starving for air.


People pass out and they happened to be good people (*after all attending a MICHAEL JACKSON SHOW ...not "the true" MAYHEM. ....or some other shock we have no talent and will debase ourselves because we hate life - kind of show.


They passed the people up front and above to get medical attention.

I've heard stories that Michael would visit these people after the show if they missed the entire thing.

I'm not certain how many times are true. ..mm but even in the most available bootleg show in the Ukraine or Moscow er whatever, you can SEE VAPOR escaping the audience up above while he's onstage.

If you're not familiar with stage lights, then you wouldn't KNOW.
People fainted for PRACTICAL REASONS as well as star struckedness...


*THINK! **IT AIN'T ILLEGAL. ...YET
[Edited 11/13/17 23:41pm]
"Damn Dolores, pick another subject, please...introduce the carpet to something other than your knees...."
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