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Reply #90 posted 07/14/17 4:06pm

bboy87

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PeteSilas said:

bboy87 said:

It would've been interesting but by then, I feel they had gone in different directions. It's been suggested that by then, while Michael still wanted to break records and all that, he understood that he wasn't going to outsell Thriller. His plans for This Is It and afterwards kinda confirms that IMO

sure, it would have been interesting, but by asking Q it just gave him a chance to say what he did "give me a break, i'm 74 years old" or whatever. the reason why some of us were angry at Q was that Michael looked to us to be a broken man in his last few years, hunted, running the globe, being seen disquised as a woman, getting kicked out of places by rich guests, he was lost. America had made and busted him, it didn't look fun from the outside, and then he dies, and then his "buddy" talks shit the next day, it's easy to figure out why some of us were angry.

Oh I know, because I was very vocal about Q's comments.

It's been said MJ wasn't sure if people wanted to see him again live and was emotional when the o2 shows sold out. That tells you something.

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #91 posted 07/14/17 4:10pm

PeteSilas

bboy87 said:

PeteSilas said:

sure, it would have been interesting, but by asking Q it just gave him a chance to say what he did "give me a break, i'm 74 years old" or whatever. the reason why some of us were angry at Q was that Michael looked to us to be a broken man in his last few years, hunted, running the globe, being seen disquised as a woman, getting kicked out of places by rich guests, he was lost. America had made and busted him, it didn't look fun from the outside, and then he dies, and then his "buddy" talks shit the next day, it's easy to figure out why some of us were angry.

Oh I know, because I was very vocal about Q's comments.

It's been said MJ wasn't sure if people wanted to see him again live and was emotional when the o2 shows sold out. That tells you something.

ya i remmeber you bboy, i was banned twice since mj died. I'm just clarifying for some of the q acolytes.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #92 posted 07/14/17 6:04pm

babynoz

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bboy87 said:

PeteSilas said:

sure, it would have been interesting, but by asking Q it just gave him a chance to say what he did "give me a break, i'm 74 years old" or whatever. the reason why some of us were angry at Q was that Michael looked to us to be a broken man in his last few years, hunted, running the globe, being seen disquised as a woman, getting kicked out of places by rich guests, he was lost. America had made and busted him, it didn't look fun from the outside, and then he dies, and then his "buddy" talks shit the next day, it's easy to figure out why some of us were angry.

Oh I know, because I was very vocal about Q's comments.

It's been said MJ wasn't sure if people wanted to see him again live and was emotional when the o2 shows sold out. That tells you something.




bboy! biggrin

I have to do a little ranting because the way Q talked trash about Mike before he was even cold is unforgivable. After he gets what he is lawfully owed I hope they pay a crackhead to beat the snot out of him.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit
and for that, I am eternally grateful....IDF
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Reply #93 posted 07/14/17 6:10pm

babynoz

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Equally unforgivable is the outlandish claim that MJ would never have been a superstar without Q? FOH! Exactly what evidence is that effed-up claim even based on? I am sick to death, perturbed and distraught over that BS.

Hell, even after the Got To Be There album Mike was destined to be a superstar but nobody ever acknowleges those days and It is sickening.


Most of the people who claim to be Michael Jackson fans are only knowledgeable about and fans of ONE era of his loooong career. There was a brilliant Michael Jackson BEFORE Off The Wall, people! rolleyes

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit
and for that, I am eternally grateful....IDF
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Reply #94 posted 07/14/17 6:59pm

babynoz

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Aaand another thing.....

We cannot have this convo without discussing the impact of the music video, which was also a significant influence on Mike's trajectory and crossover appeal when the rest of the world finally found out what we already knew. Furthermore, with the advent of the music video, what an artist looked like became much more of an issue, male of female. The interest in this new way of presenting music caught like wildfire and there were two black artists who broke ground there.


Many of you are too young to remember that before the MTV era being pretty was not as big of a factor. @Scorp, it could be argued that it was one of the factors that compelled Michael to become so obsessed with his appearance. He may have felt compelled to look a certain way for his newly acquired audience.


Q deserves the credit due him but I can't go so far as to say that Michael wouldn't have gotten there without him. That's some Wendy and Lisa BS.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit
and for that, I am eternally grateful....IDF
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Reply #95 posted 07/14/17 7:37pm

PeteSilas

babynoz said:

Aaand another thing.....

We cannot have this convo without discussing the impact of the music video, which was also a significant influence on Mike's trajectory and crossover appeal when the rest of the world finally found out what we already knew. Furthermore, with the advent of the music video, what an artist looked like became much more of an issue, male of female. The interest in this new way of presenting music caught like wildfire and there were two black artists who broke ground there.


Many of you are too young to remember that before the MTV era being pretty was not as big of a factor. @Scorp, it could be argued that it was one of the factors that compelled Michael to become so obsessed with his appearance. He may have felt compelled to look a certain way for his newly acquired audience.


Q deserves the credit due him but I can't go so far as to say that Michael wouldn't have gotten there without him. That's some Wendy and Lisa BS.

there were so many factors aside from q's production that made michael a superstar, he alread was a star since he was a kid, he already had millions of fans before he was even an adult, his songwriting was a huge factor, his looks and his image was another, as well as the advent of the video which he seemed to sense he had a prime oppurtunity to pioneer and he did. Good music is never the whole part of a superstars package, in fact, i can think of a few who don't even have it in their arsenal.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #96 posted 07/14/17 7:53pm

babynoz

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PeteSilas said:

babynoz said:

Aaand another thing.....

We cannot have this convo without discussing the impact of the music video, which was also a significant influence on Mike's trajectory and crossover appeal when the rest of the world finally found out what we already knew. Furthermore, with the advent of the music video, what an artist looked like became much more of an issue, male of female. The interest in this new way of presenting music caught like wildfire and there were two black artists who broke ground there.


Many of you are too young to remember that before the MTV era being pretty was not as big of a factor. @Scorp, it could be argued that it was one of the factors that compelled Michael to become so obsessed with his appearance. He may have felt compelled to look a certain way for his newly acquired audience.


Q deserves the credit due him but I can't go so far as to say that Michael wouldn't have gotten there without him. That's some Wendy and Lisa BS.

there were so many factors aside from q's production that made michael a superstar, he alread was a star since he was a kid, he already had millions of fans before he was even an adult, his songwriting was a huge factor, his looks and his image was another, as well as the advent of the video which he seemed to sense he had a prime oppurtunity to pioneer and he did. Good music is never the whole part of a superstars package, in fact, i can think of a few who don't even have it in their arsenal.




Preach!


Some of these people who are clueless about Mike before Thriller irk the living hell out of me. lol

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit
and for that, I am eternally grateful....IDF
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Reply #97 posted 07/14/17 10:20pm

thesoulbrother

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bboy87 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

thesoulbrother said: Didn't Dangerous surpass Bad in sales at one point?

Worldwide, it did for a time. It's at 32 million copies now. With each album, while he didn't re-capture his 1979-1984 sales in the US, he reached new markets globally. It sold over 11 million by the end of '92.

It debuted at #1 in the US, staying there for 4 weeks, and was his fastest selling album in the US. By the end of 1992, it was #47 on the Billboard R&B chart, and was #106 on the Billboard 200. After the Oprah interview and his Grammy Awards speech, Dangerous went to #12 on the R&B chart and #10 Billboard 200

When was the last time anybody talked about MJ's 90s output? It may have sold well but it didn't have THAT impact like his Quincy produced albums. People don't discuss Dangerous like they do Thriller. The point is just pay Quincy what he's owed. Pay the man his money.

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Reply #98 posted 07/14/17 11:01pm

PeteSilas

thesoulbrother said:

bboy87 said:

Worldwide, it did for a time. It's at 32 million copies now. With each album, while he didn't re-capture his 1979-1984 sales in the US, he reached new markets globally. It sold over 11 million by the end of '92.

It debuted at #1 in the US, staying there for 4 weeks, and was his fastest selling album in the US. By the end of 1992, it was #47 on the Billboard R&B chart, and was #106 on the Billboard 200. After the Oprah interview and his Grammy Awards speech, Dangerous went to #12 on the R&B chart and #10 Billboard 200

When was the last time anybody talked about MJ's 90s output? It may have sold well but it didn't have THAT impact like his Quincy produced albums. People don't discuss Dangerous like they do Thriller. The point is just pay Quincy what he's owed. Pay the man his money.

ya, do pay the man, i'm sure quincy isn't worried about it and i'm sure he's not being petty, just trying to be treated fairlly. I have no issue with that. As far as post 80's music, I really do think dangerous is just as strong, or rather, in the same neighborhood as any of his previous albums. Even history had some great tunes, but no, that was not his era, that was the grunge/hip hop era. I still think he was doing great work at that point, there is no telling what he could have done without the trials which had to detract from his creativity.

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Reply #99 posted 07/14/17 11:11pm

MickyDolenz

thesoulbrother said:

When was the last time anybody talked about MJ's 90s output? It may have sold well but it didn't have THAT impact like his Quincy produced albums. People don't discuss Dangerous like they do Thriller.

If Q is the only reason Mike is popular, then Patti Austin should have the same amount of success. lol People are not talking about her albums nor James Ingram, Brothers Johnson or Q's albums under his own name like Thriller either.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor
Each generation has their music that they fall in love with, that makes it special to them ~ Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #100 posted 07/14/17 11:13pm

PeteSilas

oh ya, how did i forget his dancing and stage presence? give Q the same songs and put him on a stage or in a video and see what happens.

babynoz said:

PeteSilas said:

there were so many factors aside from q's production that made michael a superstar, he alread was a star since he was a kid, he already had millions of fans before he was even an adult, his songwriting was a huge factor, his looks and his image was another, as well as the advent of the video which he seemed to sense he had a prime oppurtunity to pioneer and he did. Good music is never the whole part of a superstars package, in fact, i can think of a few who don't even have it in their arsenal.




Preach!


Some of these people who are clueless about Mike before Thriller irk the living hell out of me. lol

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #101 posted 07/15/17 12:54am

Free2BMe

PeteSilas said:

oh ya, how did i forget his dancing and stage presence? give Q the same songs and put him on a stage or in a video and see what happens.



babynoz said:




PeteSilas said:



there were so many factors aside from q's production that made michael a superstar, he alread was a star since he was a kid, he already had millions of fans before he was even an adult, his songwriting was a huge factor, his looks and his image was another, as well as the advent of the video which he seemed to sense he had a prime oppurtunity to pioneer and he did. Good music is never the whole part of a superstars package, in fact, i can think of a few who don't even have it in their arsenal.






Preach!





Some of these people who are clueless about Mike before Thriller irk the living hell out of me. lol




biggrin nod nod
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Reply #102 posted 07/15/17 1:08am

SoulAlive

hmmm I don't know what to say about this case.If Quincy has the right paperwork/signed agreements/contracts,etc,then he may indeed be entitled to some money.The sales of Michael's old albums went through the roof when he died.The question is,does he really deserve $30 million?

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Reply #103 posted 07/15/17 2:08am

bboy87

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thesoulbrother said:

bboy87 said:

Worldwide, it did for a time. It's at 32 million copies now. With each album, while he didn't re-capture his 1979-1984 sales in the US, he reached new markets globally. It sold over 11 million by the end of '92.

It debuted at #1 in the US, staying there for 4 weeks, and was his fastest selling album in the US. By the end of 1992, it was #47 on the Billboard R&B chart, and was #106 on the Billboard 200. After the Oprah interview and his Grammy Awards speech, Dangerous went to #12 on the R&B chart and #10 Billboard 200

When was the last time anybody talked about MJ's 90s output? It may have sold well but it didn't have THAT impact like his Quincy produced albums. People don't discuss Dangerous like they do Thriller. The point is just pay Quincy what he's owed. Pay the man his money.

Well, both Dangerous and HIStory have been getting a lot more attention since he's passed, as they should smile

And of course, they don't discuss Dangerous like they do Thriller. Thriller is the biggest selling album of all time. It went 33x platinum this year. That joint is on the Billboard 200 RIGHT NOW lol But that doesn't mean he didn't continue to put out good music.

And yeah if they stiffed Q, then yes they need to pay up, the same way they had to pay John Landis and others since Branca and McClain took control of the estate.

[Edited 7/15/17 2:10am]

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #104 posted 07/15/17 6:43am

Scorp

PeteSilas said:

scorp, i agree with what you're saying, and I was paying attention all the time. Michael was made nutty by his wanting white acceptance, most people in his position do, kanye west being the latest example but it's garden variety self-denial and confusion. Each artist deals different, sly became a druggie and a burnout, Prince started making sure he had more black faces around him and it helped him I think. That's not the topic I am speaking of, I'm speaking of Q as mentor, as mentor scorned, as mentor turned destroyer because his protege grew past him, and mentor gloating over the self-immolation of his prized artist. That is what it looked like at the time, and i'm not entirely convinced that it was just because Q was angry that Michael "did it to himself" maybe it was but that's not what it sounded like, it sounded just like what I called it, gloating. I have enemies too, my own mentor I have lots of issues with but I promise you, when he dies sometime within the next couple years, I will not be gloating, I'll be wondering if I'm welcome at the funeral.

Biiiiinnnngo....

THIS is the real issue, and has been for a very long time w/a many of artists........

and this is why I've been harboring on this the way I do, even when it seems I don't talk about anything else, because of the love of music, because of the love of the amazing message that MJ tried to shared with the world on true merit, and why I won't let this issue go because of the ravaging effects it leaves behind.....this is why I feel so strongly about this issue because this dynamic has destroyed the very essence of what music is supposed to be...it's awesome when all cultures of people embrace your talent, that's a wonderful thing, but when you have to contort your being to appeal to an exclusive audience, that's when the problems start.

and I don't have anything against anyone...that's the God's honest truth......because it's not about black or white, or fans per se as much as it was/is a system of things that's predicated on race where if that prediliction was removed from the equation, we wouldn't keep witnessing these tragic results over and over and over again, and that same destructive wave of influence almost destroyed Prince, or set him on the same path to self destruction until he acted in the very manner in which you mentioned.........

See, we already know what the real issue is, but it takes a great deal of willingness to acknowledge it, because the moment we do, we know we can't continue to cling on to narratives and points of rationale in order to ease the conscious......

and that need to seek and to gain that exclusive audience mentioned, by all means, is the impetus that set the stage for what we see transpire with MIchael Jackson over time after he reached the very heights of the music industry, if all fans, the older fans and younger fans set aside all those differences about what they want to believe, then 1.) we'll find out we have more in common than we original thought...2.) we can dig down to the heart of the matter in constructive fashion...3.) find out how we've all been manipulated/misled by people behind the scenes who sought to exploit that man's talent after he reached the top and set him up for the all time okie doke......4.) understand how cohorts behind the scenes have destroyed what was once a great music/recording industry....5.) the pieces to the puzzle can be put together to begin the dialogue on how to correct things where something like this doesn't happen again to anyone who has potential to achieve musically what MJ did w/out feeling the need to change themselves

and I believe more than anything, that's why Quincy Jones said what he said because being involved in the music industry for so long, he's seen just about every obstacle there was when it comes to the issue of race where he saw all the barriers, obstacles, and restrictions that kept a distinctive culture of music from being embraced naturally, and when he stood on that stage with MJ during those 84 GRammys after producing/recording the greatest selling album of all time, where both men accomplished history together, for that brief moment, he saw that for the first time, there was an opportunity to break through all of that for good through the sheer will of talent itself, and how that was slowly taken away over time and MJ was pushed towards moving beyond all of that, and how MJ was robbed of his essential goodness, with being so close to him artistically, and considering what they did achieved together, he's probably more bitter about that than anything else

[Edited 7/15/17 6:46am]

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Reply #105 posted 07/17/17 4:41am

laurarichardso
n

SoulAlive said:

hmmm I don't know what to say about this case.If Quincy has the right paperwork/signed agreements/contracts,etc,then he may indeed be entitled to some money.The sales of Michael's old albums went through the roof when he died.The question is,does he really deserve $30 million?

The law does not work on deserved. No one put a gun to MJ's head and forced him to cut Quincy in on the copyrigths. Contracts do not end because estate managers do not feel that the holders of copyrights and parties of contracts suddenly do not deserve to receive a certain amount of the revenue.

The attorneys involved with this case and MJ's estate are not idiots. They simply believed they could not pay Q and that he would not pursue the lawsuit and would accept a settlement which to me was foolish. At the tune of 30 million Q had no problem finding a law firm to take his case as this could only be a matter of how much he id due not a question that he is going to get money out of this case.

If you had in punititive damages and court cost and looking at the amount of revenue the MJ estate has generated. The judgement could be substantial.

---------

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Reply #106 posted 07/18/17 5:35pm

Cloudbuster

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Still get giggles from those who say Mike was nothing without Q despite MJ having a successful career for 10 years before Jones entered the picture. Mike really came into his own on Destiny. What did Q have to do with that? If Jones is owed money then fair play, beyond that... get a grip on reality. Mike was massively successful before Q and massively successful long after Q.

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Reply #107 posted 07/18/17 5:47pm

mjscarousal

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Cloudbuster said:

Still get giggles from those who say Mike was nothing without Q despite MJ having a successful career for 10 years before Jones entered the picture. Mike really came into his own on Destiny. What did Q have to do with that? If Jones is owed money then fair play, beyond that... get a grip on reality. Mike was massively successful before Q and massively successful long after Q.

biggrin thumbs up!

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #108 posted 07/18/17 5:51pm

Cloudbuster

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mjscarousal said:

biggrin thumbs up!


Back at you. wink

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Reply #109 posted 07/18/17 7:11pm

TD3

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laurarichardson said:

LBrent said:

Quincy Jones is an opportunistic idiot...I hope he doesn't get a this red cent...

sad

Why if he received royalties for years and they just stopped coming that is called stealing. Do you think he was getting royalty checks for 20 years for no reason. If there was any sort of increase in revenue he should be gettting it.

See the comment below. The admit to not paying him his due and want to settle for about 3 million when the Jackson estate has been making millions of dollars since MJ's death.

“We believe the evidence will show that Mr. Jones is not entitled to anything but a fraction of the money he’s after,” Modabber said. Since Jackson’s death, he said, “Mr. Jones has been paid over $18 million, and he will make millions more.”

John Branca, Jackson’s longtime attorney and now the co-executor of his estate, was the first witness. Under questioning from Jones’ lawyer, Branca said the estate had offered Jones $2 million to $3 million to settle the case, which is what he believed Jones is owed.

Branca and Jones’ lawyer sparred over the definition of a “videoshow” in Jones’ contract, with Branca claiming it pertained to music videos and not to movies such as “This Is It” or life performances such as Cirque du Soleil.

“It was never our practice to cheat … Mr. Jones,” Branca testified, as the debate became heated. “You’re creating a false impression.”

Branca acknowledged that the estate had erred by failing to give Jones a credit for “This Is It.”


This is no shade to MJ this is about the two attorneys he choose to manage his estate and the manner in which they have been conducting themselves. I have said on the estate topic wills or trusts somehow mean the artist wishes are just not honered and attorney's seem to think actual contracts cease to exisit when the artist passed. They certainly do not expire and neither do copyrights.

[Edited 7/12/17 12:42pm]

[Edited 7/12/17 12:43pm]

On point, Ms. Richardson. nod

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Reply #110 posted 07/18/17 7:53pm

214

Cloudbuster said:

Still get giggles from those who say Mike was nothing without Q despite MJ having a successful career for 10 years before Jones entered the picture. Mike really came into his own on Destiny. What did Q have to do with that? If Jones is owed money then fair play, beyond that... get a grip on reality. Mike was massively successful before Q and massively successful long after Q.

Exactly, and to me Destiny is a little better than Quincy produced albums.

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Reply #111 posted 07/18/17 8:34pm

daingermouz202
0

I liked Destiny. It's hard to say where MJ would have ended up musically had he had not hooked up with Quincy. Since he did I can not imagine him being more successful if there were no Off the Wall, Thriller or Bad.
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Reply #112 posted 07/18/17 9:58pm

PeteSilas

214 said:

Cloudbuster said:

Still get giggles from those who say Mike was nothing without Q despite MJ having a successful career for 10 years before Jones entered the picture. Mike really came into his own on Destiny. What did Q have to do with that? If Jones is owed money then fair play, beyond that... get a grip on reality. Mike was massively successful before Q and massively successful long after Q.

Exactly, and to me Destiny is a little better than Quincy produced albums.

his brothers were also pretty talented, shake your body, can you feel it, this place hotel, they did some great work without the motown handlers. I actually even liked parts of the abysmally reviewed, Victory.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #113 posted 07/18/17 10:07pm

bboy87

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daingermouz2020 said:

I liked Destiny. It's hard to say where MJ would have ended up musically had he had not hooked up with Quincy. Since he did I can not imagine him being more successful if there were no Off the Wall, Thriller or Bad.

The question I've been wondering is where would we have ended up musically if Thriller hadn't been as big as it was. I saw some interviews from right before he started work on Thriller where he stated "after Quincy and I finish the next album", he wanted to put out a concept album

Then Thriller became what it was...then Victory....

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #114 posted 07/18/17 11:05pm

PeteSilas

bboy87 said:

daingermouz2020 said:

I liked Destiny. It's hard to say where MJ would have ended up musically had he had not hooked up with Quincy. Since he did I can not imagine him being more successful if there were no Off the Wall, Thriller or Bad.

The question I've been wondering is where would we have ended up musically if Thriller hadn't been as big as it was. I saw some interviews from right before he started work on Thriller where he stated "after Quincy and I finish the next album", he wanted to put out a concept album

Then Thriller became what it was...then Victory....

Many people have said that the success stifled him. That he got the idea that he could even top that and he tried. I really think all the hoopla made him a little crazy, just like it did to most of the people it's happened to. It's not a healthy way to live. Fame has driven a lot of people over the brink in one way or the other. I don't think he or anyone else knew thriller would be that big, I think he just had the modest (at the time) hope that it would sell better than off the wall. Truth is, most people think off the wall was the better album so it goes to show that quality and sales aren't the same thing. as far as a concept album, maybe Dangerous might fit the bill more than any other album.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #115 posted 07/18/17 11:22pm

bboy87

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PeteSilas said:

bboy87 said:

The question I've been wondering is where would we have ended up musically if Thriller hadn't been as big as it was. I saw some interviews from right before he started work on Thriller where he stated "after Quincy and I finish the next album", he wanted to put out a concept album

Then Thriller became what it was...then Victory....

Many people have said that the success stifled him. That he got the idea that he could even top that and he tried. I really think all the hoopla made him a little crazy, just like it did to most of the people it's happened to. It's not a healthy way to live. Fame has driven a lot of people over the brink in one way or the other. I don't think he or anyone else knew thriller would be that big, I think he just had the modest (at the time) hope that it would sell better than off the wall. Truth is, most people think off the wall was the better album so it goes to show that quality and sales aren't the same thing. as far as a concept album, maybe Dangerous might fit the bill more than any other album.

I (and other fans) feel at some point, he seemed to make peace that he wasn't going to outsell Thriller, although I do feel he felt he had more to prove afterwards by wanting to break other records (biggest selling remix album, biggest selling double album, most sold out shows, biggest audience). He agreed to do the Superbowl because it was going to be a huge viewership and it would reach people that hadn't seen him in concert.

Michael, unfortunately, seemed to equate success with being loved which is NOT a good thing.

and speaking of feeling he had to prove something, it was said in a recent book that he was wanting more control with Bad onwards because he felt he had to prove himself away from Q.

https://www.makingmichael.co.uk/single-post/2016/04/19/EXTRACT-Inside-the-Bad-sessions-and-the-split-with-Quincy-Jones

It's understandable IMO. By '89 when he started on Dangerous, Michael had written and produced songs for Diana Ross, his two older sisters, Johnny Mathis, Jennifer Holliday, The Brothers Johnson, Carole Bayer Sager, and USA For Africa. Most of his biggest hits as an adult were written by him, but people still considered him "just a singer and dancer". He wanted to show people he was more than that.

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #116 posted 07/18/17 11:32pm

PeteSilas

he was a great songwriter, he would hav e been huge without Q, fact is, we're all socialized to look to an outside figure for permission to do anything, it's how we're raised and there are many people who abuse and exploit that need for themselves. Of course a good ally is nice to have but the strings that are attached often make it not work in the long run. As far as his success, i still have the article from RS in 87 where he wanted to sell a hundred million albums. I think it really hurt him artistically to do that. His albums were strong albums, I never did listen to Invincible but everything else was pretty damned good but how much more would we have gotten had he not 1. been worried about topping thriller 2. not had to deal with being hunted in his own country.

bboy87 said:

PeteSilas said:

Many people have said that the success stifled him. That he got the idea that he could even top that and he tried. I really think all the hoopla made him a little crazy, just like it did to most of the people it's happened to. It's not a healthy way to live. Fame has driven a lot of people over the brink in one way or the other. I don't think he or anyone else knew thriller would be that big, I think he just had the modest (at the time) hope that it would sell better than off the wall. Truth is, most people think off the wall was the better album so it goes to show that quality and sales aren't the same thing. as far as a concept album, maybe Dangerous might fit the bill more than any other album.

I (and other fans) feel at some point, he seemed to make peace that he wasn't going to outsell Thriller, although I do feel he felt he had more to prove afterwards by wanting to break other records (biggest selling remix album, biggest selling double album, most sold out shows, biggest audience). He agreed to do the Superbowl because it was going to be a huge viewership and it would reach people that hadn't seen him in concert.

Michael, unfortunately, seemed to equate success with being loved which is NOT a good thing.

and speaking of feeling he had to prove something, it was said in a recent book that he was wanting more control with Bad onwards because he felt he had to prove himself away from Q.

https://www.makingmichael.co.uk/single-post/2016/04/19/EXTRACT-Inside-the-Bad-sessions-and-the-split-with-Quincy-Jones

It's understandable IMO. By '89 when he started on Dangerous, Michael had written and produced songs for Diana Ross, his two older sisters, Johnny Mathis, Jennifer Holliday, The Brothers Johnson, Carole Bayer Sager, and USA For Africa. Most of his biggest hits as an adult were written by him, but people still considered him "just a singer and dancer". He wanted to show people he was more than that.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #117 posted 07/19/17 2:44pm

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bboy87 said:

daingermouz2020 said:

I liked Destiny. It's hard to say where MJ would have ended up musically had he had not hooked up with Quincy. Since he did I can not imagine him being more successful if there were no Off the Wall, Thriller or Bad.

The question I've been wondering is where would we have ended up musically if Thriller hadn't been as big as it was. I saw some interviews from right before he started work on Thriller where he stated "after Quincy and I finish the next album", he wanted to put out a concept album

Then Thriller became what it was...then Victory....

If Thriller hadn't become the monster it came to be, i'm sure Michael would have made more music and i have to say better and more honest music, in the vein of the Destiny album, specially the ballads. Thriller, although a good album was for Michael more of a curse than a blessing. I for one believe that Thriller limited Jackson artistically.

[Edited 7/19/17 14:45pm]

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Reply #118 posted 07/19/17 8:20pm

Goddess4Real

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Quincy Jones I Suffered Financial Elder Abuse ... Judge in MJ Case Rejects Claim http://www.tmz.com/2017/0...oductions/

Update


The judge denied Quincy's motion to add financial elder abuse to the lawsuit.

Quincy Jones says he's the victim of elder abuse in his legal war over Michael Jackson royalties.

According to new docs filed in the case -- which went to trial this week in L.A. -- Quincy says Sony Music and MJJ Productions took advantage of his advanced age. He's 84 now, and in the docs, says he was clearly over 65 at the time he sat down with the music execs to talk dough.

Quincy says Sony and MJJ pulled an accounting trick on him -- labeling a pot of money from MJ's music as profits, instead of royalties ... to which he would have been entitled a cut.

In short ... he's accusing them of bamboozling an old man.

Of course, Q produced MJ's 3 biggest albums -- "Off the Wall," "Thriller" and "Bad" -- and says the defendants have screwed him out of money earned off that amazing string of hits.

He's suing for at least $10 million, and is expected to testify in court this week

[Edited 7/19/17 20:26pm]

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #119 posted 07/19/17 8:44pm

bboy87

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http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7872998/quincy-jones-earned-18-million-in-royalties-since-michael-jacksons-death

On Day 6 of trial over missing royalties, Sony exec's testimony reveals producer's payout Since the death of pop star Michael Jackson​ in 2009, Quincy Jones​ has received nearly $18 million in royalties for his work on some of the King of Pop’s most iconic music, according to court testimony given by a high-ranking music executive on the sixth day of the trial between Jones and the Jackson estate.

Though the 84-year-old Jones, who is likely to take the stand on Thursday, claims that the Jackson estate owes him at least $30 million due to a breached contract for his work on albums Bad, Thriller, Off the Wall and This Is It, Sony's vp of royalty audits David Moro took the stand Tuesday (July 18) and spoke at length about the substantial royalties that Jones has already received from the label through the years, emphasizing payments issued since Jackson’s death 8 years ago.

Jones sued the estate and Sony Music in 2003, claiming that songs such as “Billie Jean,” “Thriller” and “Don’t Stop ’Til You Get Enough” were remixed to block him from royalties and a producer’s fee.

The legendary producer, who has been nominated 79 times for a Grammy, alleges that his contracts gave him the first option to re-edit or alter the songs, and that not having had that opportunity has hurt his reputation.

After the Jackson estate's legal team called Moro to the stand, attorney Tami Sims led Moro through series of back-to-back questions that established how much Jones has received, from smaller amounts in the range of $30,000 to much larger sums in the millions.

Moro explained that Jones was chiefly paid record royalties, not funds through a license agreement. The executive also explained that a “joint venture” agreement precluded Jones from receiving other monies.

“Mr. Jones is not a party to those agreements,” Moro said during his testimony. “Mr. Jones has never been paid under those agreements.”

When asked if Jones has previously requested audits, Moro confirmed that there had been “about 6” audits from 1981 through 1989. Additionally, there was a settlement totaling between $200,000 and $300,000 in recent years.

The jury was shown royalty summaries pertaining to Jones with one line item illustrating that Jones received nearly $18 million between 2009 and 2016.

More witnesses are expected to take the stand in Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Michael L. Stern’s courtroom including Jones, who this week returned from work duties in Europe.

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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