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Thread started 06/13/17 8:28pm

LittleBLUECorv
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Why is there no decent Sylvers collection available?

There are about 5-6 different compilations with the same track list available that they keep putting out, from their later year. Only one compilation exist that features their early material, and that is OOP and usually runs from about $60.

Surprisingly, a couple of years ago Foster Sylvers debut hit the market. So, maybe that gives hope for their first 3 records to finally see the light of day. The first three are on Pride/MGM just as the Foster joint, so their should be no problem.

PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
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Reply #1 posted 06/13/17 8:44pm

MickyDolenz

I don't know if it's true or not, but I read somewhere that the original master tapes for their pre-Capitol albums were destroyed when one of the warehouses for that label burned down. If that's true, your best bet might be to buy used copies of those records. I think one of them was reissed a few years ago. If the fire really happened, they either had another master (maybe a 2nd generation) or copied a vinyl record. I know that's what they do with some 78rpm era releases, because before a certain year, recording tape hadn't been invented, so the 78s is the only source.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. ~ Johnnie Taylor
If a person can't get in a vehicle and actually do it, then it shouldn't be filmed. ~ John Schneider on CGI car stunts
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Reply #2 posted 06/13/17 9:13pm

LittleBLUECorv
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MickyDolenz said:

I don't know if it's true or not, but I read somewhere that the original master tapes for their pre-Capitol albums were destroyed when one of the warehouses for that label burned down. If that's true, your best bet might be to buy used copies of those records. I think one of them was reissed a few years ago. If the fire really happened, they either had another master (maybe a 2nd generation) or copied a vinyl record. I know that's what they do with some 78rpm era releases, because before a certain year, recording tape hadn't been invented, so the 78s is the only source.

Did other MGM / Pride tapes get destroyed or just the Sylvers? How did a 1973 Foster Sylvers album get remasted in 2014? Foster Sylvers catalog number PRD-0027 and The Sylvers II PRD-0026. I mean, I don't know how they're stored. If they're stored next to each other in order of catalog number, than that's weird that only one burned up.

PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #3 posted 06/13/17 10:13pm

MickyDolenz

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Did other MGM / Pride tapes get destroyed or just the Sylvers? How did a 1973 Foster Sylvers album get remasted in 2014? Foster Sylvers catalog number PRD-0027 and The Sylvers II PRD-0026. I mean, I don't know how they're stored. If they're stored next to each other in order of catalog number, than that's weird that only one burned up.

I would guess many master tapes melted if the entire place burned down. I think the fire story was mentioned at either Gearslutz or Steve Hoffman. It was years ago I read this so don't remember. Who put out the Foster reissue? Some of those non-major label CD reissue companies do vinyl rips if the master can't be found. So whatever mastering is going to be limited. In some cases they might have the master for the album, but the bonus material like remixes might come from a record. Some reissues are not remastered, even if they do get it from the original tapes. There's different level of remastering too. Like more money & time is going to be spent on remastering Beatles stuff than Millie Jackson as there's a bigger audience that's going to buy The Beatles. So the label is more likely to recuperate the cost of remastering. There's also remasters that just make the sound louder and these sometimes sound distorted (loudness wars).

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. ~ Johnnie Taylor
If a person can't get in a vehicle and actually do it, then it shouldn't be filmed. ~ John Schneider on CGI car stunts
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Reply #4 posted 06/14/17 1:03am

ReddBlitz

There also needs to be a definitive SOLAR Records box set. Complete w/previously unreleased material, videos, etc etc.
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Reply #5 posted 06/14/17 1:53am

TD3

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

There are about 5-6 different compilations with the same track list available that they keep putting out, from their later year. Only one compilation exist that features their early material, and that is OOP and usually runs from about $60.

Surprisingly, a couple of years ago Foster Sylvers debut hit the market. So, maybe that gives hope for their first 3 records to finally see the light of day. The first three are on Pride/MGM just as the Foster joint, so their should be no problem.




1. The Sylvers' manager own the rights to their music...pre-Solar. If I'm not mistaken the Sylevers' may not have "ownership" of their own name.

2. Leon Sylvers said, the rumor about the groups master's being destroyed in a fire isn't true.

If recall during their Unsung episode, the Sylvers mentioned they were attempting to get their music back. Unless they have deep pockets to pay lawyers, I doubt if they've been successful or can afford to do so.

There's a lot of music out of print. People are willing to pay a sub for streaming... I suspect a vast majority of music setting on record company shelves will never see the light of day.


=====
[Edited 6/14/17 14:27pm]
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Reply #6 posted 06/14/17 5:43am

TD3

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MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Did other MGM / Pride tapes get destroyed or just the Sylvers? How did a 1973 Foster Sylvers album get remasted in 2014? Foster Sylvers catalog number PRD-0027 and The Sylvers II PRD-0026. I mean, I don't know how they're stored. If they're stored next to each other in order of catalog number, than that's weird that only one burned up.

I would guess many master tapes melted if the entire place burned down. I think the fire story was mentioned at either Gearslutz or Steve Hoffman. It was years ago I read this so don't remember. Who put out the Foster reissue? Some of those non-major label CD reissue companies do vinyl rips if the master can't be found. So whatever mastering is going to be limited. In some cases they might have the master for the album, but the bonus material like remixes might come from a record. Some reissues are not remastered, even if they do get it from the original tapes. There's different level of remastering too. Like more money & time is going to be spent on remastering Beatles stuff than Millie Jackson as there's a bigger audience that's going to buy The Beatles. So the label is more likely to recuperate the cost of remastering. There's also remasters that just make the sound louder and these sometimes sound distorted (loudness wars).

Sylvers 3 albums for MGM/Pride: To be frank the albums sound are mediocre to bad. One wondered if Sylvers recorded those albums using a Radio Shack (RIP) mic and cassette tape. lol

=============

[Edited 6/14/17 14:17pm]

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Reply #7 posted 06/14/17 8:59am

paisleypark4

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TD3 said:

MickyDolenz said:

I would guess many master tapes melted if the entire place burned down. I think the fire story was mentioned at either Gearslutz or Steve Hoffman. It was years ago I read this so don't remember. Who put out the Foster reissue? Some of those non-major label CD reissue companies do vinyl rips if the master can't be found. So whatever mastering is going to be limited. In some cases they might have the master for the album, but the bonus material like remixes might come from a record. Some reissues are not remastered, even if they do get it from the original tapes. There's different level of remastering too. Like more money & time is going to be spent on remastering Beatles stuff than Millie Jackson as there's a bigger audience that's going to buy The Beatles. So the label is more likely to recuperate the cost of remastering. There's also remasters that just make the sound louder and these sometimes sound distorted (loudness wars).

Sylvers 3 albums for MGM/Pride: To be frank the albums sound are mediocre to bad. One wondered if Sylvers records those albums you a Radio Shack (RIP) mic and cassette tape. lol

The way they were recorded and mastered have a muffled sound to them. Would have been nice to

go back and tweak each track with better treble and bring life to the bass / vocals...but like The

Moments and other recordings from that era, it may be the best were going to get.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #8 posted 06/14/17 10:29am

silverchild

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I ended up doing my own 16/44 bit needledrops of their Pride/MGM albums and they sounded excellent. I did my own mixing and sound editing in post-production as well. Just so happens that those three albums are quite hard-to-find and expensive, based on their value and reputation among collectors and DJs.

[Edited 6/14/17 10:31am]

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Reply #9 posted 06/14/17 2:21pm

paisleypark4

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silverchild said:

I ended up doing my own 16/44 bit needledrops of their Pride/MGM albums and they sounded excellent. I did my own mixing and sound editing in post-production as well. Just so happens that those three albums are quite hard-to-find and expensive, based on their value and reputation among collectors and DJs.

[Edited 6/14/17 10:31am]

I believe you because I only have the vinyl copies of Wish That i Can Talk To You and Misdemeanor....My vinyl / mp3 copy someone sent to me sounded muddy too so I am assuming Pride Releases just sound that way. So send them to me lol. Yeah much of the Pride Record collections are rare / hard to find until they merged to MGM & Casablanca.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #10 posted 06/14/17 2:36pm

TD3

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http://i81.photobucket.co...a2177e.jpg

I purchase some sound software a couple of years ago: I've still haven't gotten around to... attempting to clean up the sound on my Sylvers' trio. Maybe someday, lol

-----------------------

[Edited 6/14/17 14:55pm]

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Reply #11 posted 06/15/17 2:41pm

datdude

because one hit does not a "collection" make. lol

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Reply #12 posted 06/15/17 3:02pm

MickyDolenz

datdude said:

because one hit does not a "collection" make. lol

If that's the case, how come Tiny Tim has a 3 CD box set, which includes unreleased demos?

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. ~ Johnnie Taylor
If a person can't get in a vehicle and actually do it, then it shouldn't be filmed. ~ John Schneider on CGI car stunts
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Reply #13 posted 06/15/17 4:46pm

LittleBLUECorv
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datdude said:

because one hit does not a "collection" make. lol


They had more than 1. Three top 20 pop hits.
Nine top 20 R&B hits.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #14 posted 06/15/17 5:27pm

datdude

And for a million dollar one chance prize to name another song besides Hotline, 98.8 percent of ppl FAIL. 1% is family (immediate, first cousins), .2% fans who overrate the memorability of their catalogue
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Reply #15 posted 06/15/17 6:15pm

LittleBLUECorv
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datdude said:

And for a million dollar one chance prize to name another song besides Hotline, 98.8 percent of ppl FAIL. 1% is family (immediate, first cousins), .2% fans who overrate the memorability of their catalogue

You can say that for almost every artist besides a mere few.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #16 posted 06/15/17 7:34pm

datdude

I beg to differ. But the OP seems to answer itself
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Reply #17 posted 06/15/17 7:43pm

SoulAlive

Wild Cherry had one big hit ("Play That Funky Music" in 1976) and yet they have a few compilations available.I'm just saying lol
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Reply #18 posted 06/15/17 8:37pm

MickyDolenz

SoulAlive said:

Wild Cherry had one big hit ("Play That Funky Music" in 1976) and yet they have a few compilations available.I'm just saying lol

Iggy Pop had no big hits in Billboard and he has several compilations too. Bob Marley didn't have any Top 40 hits either. The closest he came to having a big hit in Billboard is from a remake by Eric Clapton. Yet Bob has all kinds of compilations, deluxe albums, and box sets. His biggest selling album is a compilation called Legend.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. ~ Johnnie Taylor
If a person can't get in a vehicle and actually do it, then it shouldn't be filmed. ~ John Schneider on CGI car stunts
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Reply #19 posted 06/16/17 4:40am

TheOriginalBro
thaFiness

yes the legend has it that the "Pride Records" tapes were destroyed. the 1st single was produced by Jerry Butler. However that is usually the story with a lot of master tapes. for instance Mainline by Black Ivory was said to have been destroyed. And a lot of the material that went with it. Who knows man who really knows.

[Edited 6/16/17 4:41am]

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Reply #20 posted 06/16/17 5:04am

LittleBLUECorv
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Led Zeppelin has just one more top 20 pop hit than the Sylvers.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #21 posted 06/16/17 3:47pm

TD3

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

datdude said:
And for a million dollar one chance prize to name another song besides Hotline, 98.8 percent of ppl FAIL. 1% is family (immediate, first cousins), .2% fans who overrate the memorability of their catalogue
You can say that for almost every artist besides a mere few.

In this respect... there's a wrinkle in this story is who owns what. If I recall in the Sylvers' Unsung episode unbeknownst to the family, they'd signed there rights over to their manager. This isn't a simple question of the record labels have the power to give a thumbs up or down, is depends on the person or persons who own the Sylvers' discography.

To LBC point.

1. Jazz Greats: Box-Sets of Sarah Vaughan (who had 2 top 50 songs) Dinah Washington (who had only one number #1 hit, "What A Difference A Day Makes") Kenny Dorham, Clark Terry, Bill Evans, and countless of other well known and "obscure" jazz musicians have had box sets. Folk/Blues/R&B singer/songwriter/guitar player Tah Mahal has recorded an album every year since 1968, no number one hits... I doubt that Mahal has every cracked the top 100. Yet, his box-set came out a couple of years ago. As far as charts who gets on the charts and at what ranking... I think by now a lot of people assume its whomever the recorded companies wanted to chart. wink

2. The majority of the music recorded by US musicians are sitting on record companies shelves out of print..... for decades. When "free downloading" was a live and well that material was download by millions, Napster proved that. Some folks never learn, now kids stream and some people just don't bother to purchase anything at all or the still find music via torrents. Downloading free music hasn't gone anywhere folks. wink lol

=========================

[Edited 6/18/17 8:14am]

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Reply #22 posted 06/16/17 5:45pm

MickyDolenz

^^There's also reissue labels like Numero Group & Light In The Attic that put out compilations & album re-releases by obscure performers.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. ~ Johnnie Taylor
If a person can't get in a vehicle and actually do it, then it shouldn't be filmed. ~ John Schneider on CGI car stunts
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Reply #23 posted 06/17/17 12:35pm

ReddBlitz

datdude said:

And for a million dollar one chance prize to name another song besides Hotline, 98.8 percent of ppl FAIL. 1% is family (immediate, first cousins), .2% fans who overrate the memorability of their catalogue


Boogie Fever and that was even a platinum seller plus...High School Dance..Wish That I Could Talk To You.

The Sylvers might not ring a bell off hand but the family did turn out a catalogue that's stood the test of time.
[Edited 6/17/17 12:36pm]
[Edited 6/17/17 12:37pm]
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Reply #24 posted 06/17/17 1:26pm

MickyDolenz

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Led Zeppelin has just one more top 20 pop hit than the Sylvers.

Tiny Tim's only Top 40 hit Tiptoe Thru' The Tulips With Me reached #17 and he has a box set.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. ~ Johnnie Taylor
If a person can't get in a vehicle and actually do it, then it shouldn't be filmed. ~ John Schneider on CGI car stunts
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Reply #25 posted 06/17/17 1:55pm

paligap

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....

I know nobody asked, but here are my favorite Sylvers Tunes:

That's What Love Is Made Of

New Horizons

P. S. (The Unfinished Letter)

We Can Make it If We Try

Only One Can Win

Wish That I Could Talk To You

I Remember

Be My Love

Wish You Were Here

Forever Yours

Don't Give Up The Good Life

What's It All About

Just A Little Bit Longer

Cry of A Dreamer

Yesterday

You Turn Me On

Let My Love Shine In

....

" I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout
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Reply #26 posted 06/19/17 1:13pm

paisleypark4

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TheOriginalBrothaFiness said:

yes the legend has it that the "Pride Records" tapes were destroyed. the 1st single was produced by Jerry Butler. However that is usually the story with a lot of master tapes. for instance Mainline by Black Ivory was said to have been destroyed. And a lot of the material that went with it. Who knows man who really knows.

[Edited 6/16/17 4:41am]

I found this sotry about a Black Ivory master tape by Patrick Adams on soulfuldetroit, saying that the original "You And I" master contained water damage by being left in the managers basement smh. Wonder what else was stored in there smh. That's why that re-release had that bunk drum machine version on it and not the original.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #27 posted 06/19/17 2:36pm

2freaky4church
1

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Mickey lives in a wrecka stow.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #28 posted 06/19/17 4:34pm

TheOriginalBro
thaFiness

paisleypark4 said:

TheOriginalBrothaFiness said:

yes the legend has it that the "Pride Records" tapes were destroyed. the 1st single was produced by Jerry Butler. However that is usually the story with a lot of master tapes. for instance Mainline by Black Ivory was said to have been destroyed. And a lot of the material that went with it. Who knows man who really knows.

[Edited 6/16/17 4:41am]

I found this sotry about a Black Ivory master tape by Patrick Adams on soulfuldetroit, saying that the original "You And I" master contained water damage by being left in the managers basement smh. Wonder what else was stored in there smh. That's why that re-release had that bunk drum machine version on it and not the original.

Yup, a lot of that stuff is either "GONE" or left to die somewhere in a basement it sucks really

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Reply #29 posted 06/19/17 4:36pm

TheOriginalBro
thaFiness

MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Did other MGM / Pride tapes get destroyed or just the Sylvers? How did a 1973 Foster Sylvers album get remasted in 2014? Foster Sylvers catalog number PRD-0027 and The Sylvers II PRD-0026. I mean, I don't know how they're stored. If they're stored next to each other in order of catalog number, than that's weird that only one burned up.

I would guess many master tapes melted if the entire place burned down. I think the fire story was mentioned at either Gearslutz or Steve Hoffman. It was years ago I read this so don't remember. Who put out the Foster reissue? Some of those non-major label CD reissue companies do vinyl rips if the master can't be found. So whatever mastering is going to be limited. In some cases they might have the master for the album, but the bonus material like remixes might come from a record. Some reissues are not remastered, even if they do get it from the original tapes. There's different level of remastering too. Like more money & time is going to be spent on remastering Beatles stuff than Millie Jackson as there's a bigger audience that's going to buy The Beatles. So the label is more likely to recuperate the cost of remastering. There's also remasters that just make the sound louder and these sometimes sound distorted (loudness wars).

Yep a lot of those are vinyl rips done in flacs or 320 mp3 or even wav files that is how most of them got done

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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Why is there no decent Sylvers collection available?