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Thread started 06/06/17 1:54am

liljojo

Prince Nelson & Michael Jackson vs The music racist slave industry: The rise of ownership

Prince Roger Nelson was been one of the top musicians ever to grace the music world you all know his accomplishments and speak on them every chance. But what we don't speak about is his importance on being free to make money off your own talent.

Michael Joseph Jackson was another musical genius to grace the music world and his accomplishments speak for themselves also. But again we don't speak about his importance on making money off your own talent.

Some orgers fuss and fight over simple dumb media bad journalism articles on both artists and make dumb MJ vs Prince articles but lets see how both artist became enemies of not just the music world but of rich racism people with slave mentality.

Let the pissing off folks begin!!!!!

Michael Jackson released the Off The Wall album, that many people was said to be one of the best albums out of his catalogue. Which had 4 top 10 singles (Rock With, DSTYGE, Off The Wall [My personal favorite], and She's Out Of My Life). Many including Michael himself thought he should have earned more awards and acknowledgement. But because he was black he didn't receive the just do for his work. After being unhappy about this, he came up with a plan that produced Thriller. Thriller unexpectedly became waaaay too huge for the a black artist in the music industry breaking elvis record sells which mad a lot of people angry. So how can they knock MJ off without another racial outcry from blacks and fair minded caucasians like David Bowie? Use another upcoming raising star, Prince Roger Nelson.

Prince Nelson, a talented super talented musician who honestly was being ignored for from the albums For You – 1999, and which I think he put out some of his best music. When Prince released Purple Rain the movie and soundtrack, he got so much support it surprised him. Trust me going from barely selling 4 million albums of 1999 to 13 million was an amazing accomplishment. But unlike MJ, Prince wasn’t about to follow the rules and shut up and be humble. Prince didn’t participate in the several events that the industry world wanted him including the We Are The World foundation song. This truly pissed the industry off and caused a horrible backlash. Let the drama begin……. On my next post!!!

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

[Edited 6/7/17 16:26pm]

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Reply #1 posted 06/06/17 9:41am

mjscarousal

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Some of your post I don't agree with but I agree with your overall message. MJ and Prince were threats to the White man agenda because they were two powerful BLACK men that used their power to fight against the establishment and industry. They didnt just go along with what the industry wanted, they didn't follow the status quo or what the white man told them to do. This is why they still keep the media pressed even in their death because no one was brave enough to do what they dared to do.

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #2 posted 06/06/17 1:07pm

journalism16

I agree with your overall message as well.
Erin Smith
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Reply #3 posted 06/06/17 1:32pm

mjscarousal

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^journal I like to read some of your thoughts on this? Care to share smile

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #4 posted 06/06/17 2:27pm

MickyDolenz

liljojo said:

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

People in general tend to buy music of their own race, before they will buy another one. Simple as that. Like Selena, Celia Cruz, Willie Colon, Romeo Santos, Tito Puente, etc. are more popular with Latinos than other audiences. There's even a Latin Grammy Awards. My relatives have records by primarily black performers, and many blacks talk about black people who listen to "white boy" music like rock & country. I've noticed that white people are more likely to listen to music by other races, than vice versa. Some people on this site talk negatively about Lionel Richie because he started making songs that appeal more to white people like Dancing On The Cieling. My mom says Johnny Mathis & Sammy Davis Jr. makes "white music" and so did The Temptations when they did those 1960s TV specials when they sung stuff like Fiddler On The Roof. They think a particular race is supposed to make a certain kind of music. When Charley Pride's first single came out the label didn't put his picture on it so the country audience would buy it. This also happened with Teena Marie's debut album for the R&B audience. With gospel there's acts who are more popular with blacks like The Clark Sisters & The Winans and others with whites, like Michael W. Smith & Sandi Patty.

.

It's the same with other entertainment. The default free channels like NBC, CBS, ABC, & Fox have primarily white programming. Then there's channels for specific races/ethnicities that have programming that appeals to them like Telemundo, BET, CCTV, etc. In this case, whites in general are less likely to watch movies/TV shows with non-white majority casts. That's why you'll see a movie with white people playing Chinese & Japanese characters. That happens today, not just in the old Charlie Chan days. Other races will watch white movies becasue that's mostly what is out there and promoted the most.

.

The media in America is primarily white. So of course Rolling Stone & Spin are more likely to write about white singers & bands and/or put them on the cover, just like Vibe is more likely to write about black performers. They're trying to sell to a target audience.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor / We can't be Phil Collins & The Genesis! You don't even play drums! ~ Ricky Bell to Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #5 posted 06/06/17 6:17pm

liljojo

The fans brought into the Prince vs MJ controversy really bad by the beginning of 1988, to the point if you said you liked one artist more than the other then you weren’t a real fan. Example; A die hard Prince fan would hear you blasting Prince music but then Dirty Diana would play and all of a sudden you’re a trader and fake fan all because you listen to MJ music too. Once the music industry saw this and figured out they couldn’t get Prince and Michael to war against each other they started to pay off the media to manipulate fans with false and sometimes outrageous stories. This was due to Prince and Michael was actually starting to make money off the media trying to pin them against each other. Michael was even penning false stories to make more money and Prince was being more rebellious to fit his bad muthafukka playboy alter ego. By the time Prince released SOTT album the music industry was in full swing out to get him and by the time Michael released Bad the music industry was trying to destroy him. Both artist was invited to the grammys award shows and this is where the music executives wanted to show Prince and Michael that they aren’t as big as they think they are. If you all really feel U2 and Paula Abdul deserved grammys over Prince and Michael 1988-89 you can’t be serious. After this, Prince and Michael both stopped performing at that award show for a while. But by 1990 the music industry lies that was spread through the media begin to manifest throughout both fan communities and now was the best time push race, sexuality, and weird excessive personalities on both artist.

Side note: Before I go into the next phase you all ideals and truth will be highly helpful. Please don’t hesitate to correct me where I’m wrong or share your opinions as this a article I’m working on for my blog I will be putting up next month.

By the 1990’s both Prince and Michael was being persuaded as weird artist who didn’t like the black community especially black women, and bisexual men. Prince was receiving letters that he don’t like black women and was glorifying white women in his videos and movies. Michael was receiving letters that he hated being black and bleached his skin along with only wanting white kids around him. Both men was also being accused of hanging around younger partners. Prince was rumored to be hanging around teen girls and Michael was rumored to be hanging around young white girls until the late part of 1993. Both artist was also against rap music but would later add it in their music. By the mid 90’s both artist personal life was outshining their music and the public was interested in hearing the next gossip report/articles while the minority of fans was only looking for music. The majority of fans became so excessive with wanting to be in the artist world and personal life until anything that came out lie or truth they ate it up. With new technology coming forth, this helped those fans know where the artist was and turned the media into hungry stalkers. By the middle of 1995, all celebrities will understand that their personal space was no longer private. Prince and Michael took this hard as their names were the main two names that sold articles and got TV ratings. Prince went to extremes to keep people out of his personal life to the point you had to sign contracts to be around him and give up any camera or video recorders. He stopped doing pictures completely with fans and signing any fan memorabilia unless that was the plan for that day. Michael instead kept taking pics and signing stuff but soon himself begin blocking fans from having easy access as now some fans are starting to be as bad as the media. Some of the fans begin showing up to Prince and Michael homes or places uninvited and now trying to break in each artist homes. Prince and Michael was never trying to hurt their fans but just wanted to have a private life and have their families and themselves safe. The media turned this into both celebrities being rude and ungrateful towards their fan communities which some fans brought and some other fans disagreed saying they are humans also and deserve their personal private space. This split the fans into two groups and started a war among fans. Excessive fanatics: believed they were supporting the artist because they brought their merchandise and if they want to know anything about Prince or Michael they have that right. If they want to see Prince or Michael, they need to stop what they’re doing and tend to them only. Prince and Michael personal life is also their business and all their friends & family members are against them. They fantasize Prince and Michael into their own ideal and this makes both artist into perfect beings and are no longer seen as humans. They become very disproportionate mentally and attack anyone that doesn’t see the artist as this perfect being ideal. Reverential Fans: See Prince and Michael as the humans they are and only care about the merchandise put out. They respect the private life and personal space of both artist and only care about that when the artist want to share that space. They don’t agree with everything both artists do but they understand that they are human with flaws just like any other human being. They are seen as trolls or unloyal fans by excessive fanatics and really don’t care as they believe they are being rational and respectful. Both fans are loved! That’s why the next step in both Michael and Prince journal would be the fight of their lives. The attack of the inequality within Hollywood and the entertainment industry. I am not your partner, I am your entertainment SLAVE and you are a DEVIL. Let the fight begin! Next post……………

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Reply #6 posted 06/06/17 6:23pm

liljojo

mjscarousal said:

Some of your post I don't agree with but I agree with your overall message. MJ and Prince were threats to the White man agenda because they were two powerful BLACK men that used their power to fight against the establishment and industry. They didnt just go along with what the industry wanted, they didn't follow the status quo or what the white man told them to do. This is why they still keep the media pressed even in their death because no one was brave enough to do what they dared to do.



Please disagree, I'm not going to attack anyone for their opinion. That's not me at all, promise. I want to learn and I will keep posting and looking to learn. So please just tell me what you disagree about because I would love to hear everyones opinion.....Minus my Mod appreciation thread, I got death threats over that thread eek , but everyone please share your opinions, please I'm not going to dog anyone out.

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Reply #7 posted 06/06/17 6:36pm

liljojo

MickyDolenz said:

liljojo said:

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

People in general tend to buy music of their own race, before they will buy another one. Simple as that. Like Selena, Celia Cruz, Willie Colon, Romeo Santos, Tito Puente, etc. are more popular with Latinos than other audiences. There's even a Latin Grammy Awards. My relatives have records by primarily black performers, and many blacks talk about black people who listen to "white boy" music like rock & country. I've noticed that white people are more likely to listen to music by other races, than vice versa. Some people on this site talk negatively about Lionel Richie because he started making songs that appeal more to white people like Dancing On The Cieling. My mom says Johnny Mathis & Sammy Davis Jr. makes "white music" and so did The Temptations when they did those 1960s TV specials when they sung stuff like Fiddler On The Roof. They think a particular race is supposed to make a certain kind of music. When Charley Pride's first single came out the label didn't put his picture on it so the country audience would buy it. This also happened with Teena Marie's debut album for the R&B audience. With gospel there's acts who are more popular with blacks like The Clark Sisters & The Winans and others with whites, like Michael W. Smith & Sandi Patty.

.

It's the same with other entertainment. The default free channels like NBC, CBS, ABC, & Fox have primarily white programming. Then there's channels for specific races/ethnicities that have programming that appeals to them like Telemundo, BET, CCTV, etc. In this case, whites in general are less likely to watch movies/TV shows with non-white majority casts. That's why you'll see a movie with white people playing Chinese & Japanese characters. That happens today, not just in the old Charlie Chan days. Other races will watch white movies becasue that's mostly what is out there and promoted the most.

.

The media in America is primarily white. So of course Rolling Stone & Spin are more likely to write about white singers & bands and/or put them on the cover, just like Vibe is more likely to write about black performers. They're trying to sell to a target audience.


Agreed! Wish they all thought like this and not shame each race for liking other artist. I see my thread was moved lol oh well. I will keep posting and hopefully you all keep posting your thoughts and opinions please. I don't care if it's to disagree, if I don't know or missing something please org family tell me, please share your ideals and opinions. I'm not going to stop posting because I'm looking and reading for more knowledge. Also I'm not bashing no races, MTV had a black woman that was blocking black artist videos. So don't think I'm just going after white america. I'm going after the entertainment industry using Prince and MJ. I'm not going to go into the hollywood dark world of rape and drugs & molestation. It's too dark for me to cover, my heart can't handle it.

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Reply #8 posted 06/06/17 7:42pm

MickyDolenz

liljojo said:

I'm going after the entertainment industry using Prince and MJ.

The entertainment industry used everybody, no matter what the race. White acts also got ripped off by the labels, managers, & promoters and/or died broke. Allen Klein's company owns the early Rolling Stones records and also a lot of Sam Cooke's material. Klein is also one of the factors in The Beatles breaking up and the lawsuits they had in the 1970s. Songwriting copyright was originally invented by the labels to primarily to benefit them, not really the writers. That's why labels own the master recordings of their acts. People think that the acts are independent bosses of themselves. No, they're an employee of a company. If a video game designer works for Atari or Nintendo, their games belong to that company. An actor & director works for a movie or TV studio. The studio owns the movies. So they're making a product for the company they work for to sell.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor / We can't be Phil Collins & The Genesis! You don't even play drums! ~ Ricky Bell to Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #9 posted 06/06/17 8:30pm

mjscarousal

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liljojo said:

mjscarousal said:

Some of your post I don't agree with but I agree with your overall message. MJ and Prince were threats to the White man agenda because they were two powerful BLACK men that used their power to fight against the establishment and industry. They didnt just go along with what the industry wanted, they didn't follow the status quo or what the white man told them to do. This is why they still keep the media pressed even in their death because no one was brave enough to do what they dared to do.



Please disagree, I'm not going to attack anyone for their opinion. That's not me at all, promise. I want to learn and I will keep posting and looking to learn. So please just tell me what you disagree about because I would love to hear everyones opinion.....Minus my Mod appreciation thread, I got death threats over that thread eek , but everyone please share your opinions, please I'm not going to dog anyone out.

Well it was just one small thing, yea I was nit picking razz When you went into saying MJ was depressed about the commercial performance of OTW. Yes, he was disappointed that he didn't received more awards but I would not characterize his state as depressed. However, every single thing you said I agree 100% and I am so glad you made this thread although it wont get a lot of replies. I can talk ALL day about this subject matter. Given the shitty and dying state of the current pop music industry, music fans IMO should be more criticial and analytical about the way certain artists are projected and treated. There are many AGENDAS that the current music industry promotes and most of them have nothing to do with music or talent. The same with how they tried to tear down Prince and MJ in order to turn the public against them. Music fans talk about these issues but the org doesn't because their not critical thinkers and take everything for face value.

Bottom line, the industry only wants Black people to tap dance and sing for them....thats IT. They dont want you to do anything challenging or thought provoking (cause you know tap dancing and shaking our ass is all we good for) but as soon as you use your platform to really make some type of political statement about racism and how Black singers/minorities are marginalized by the establishment, they are going to tear you down and that exactly what they did to Prince and MJ, MJ particularly.Y You become a threat.

[Edited 6/6/17 20:32pm]

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #10 posted 06/06/17 10:01pm

liljojo

mjscarousal said:

liljojo said:



Please disagree, I'm not going to attack anyone for their opinion. That's not me at all, promise. I want to learn and I will keep posting and looking to learn. So please just tell me what you disagree about because I would love to hear everyones opinion.....Minus my Mod appreciation thread, I got death threats over that thread eek , but everyone please share your opinions, please I'm not going to dog anyone out.

Well it was just one small thing, yea I was nit picking razz When you went into saying MJ was depressed about the commercial performance of OTW. Yes, he was disappointed that he didn't received more awards but I would not characterize his state as depressed. However, every single thing you said I agree 100% and I am so glad you made this thread although it wont get a lot of replies. I can talk ALL day about this subject matter. Given the shitty and dying state of the current pop music industry, music fans IMO should be more criticial and analytical about the way certain artists are projected and treated. There are many AGENDAS that the current music industry promotes and most of them have nothing to do with music or talent. The same with how they tried to tear down Prince and MJ in order to turn the public against them. Music fans talk about these issues but the org doesn't because their not critical thinkers and take everything for face value.

Bottom line, the industry only wants Black people to tap dance and sing for them....thats IT. They dont want you to do anything challenging or thought provoking (cause you know tap dancing and shaking our ass is all we good for) but as soon as you use your platform to really make some type of political statement about racism and how Black singers/minorities are marginalized by the establishment, they are going to tear you down and that exactly what they did to Prince and MJ, MJ particularly.Y You become a threat.

[Edited 6/6/17 20:32pm]


I agree! I will edit that part and replace depressed with maybe upset or not happy tomorrow when I post the my next part about Prince and MJ challenging the industry and fans to read and learn to OWN your works and the difference between partnership and just another slave. Where I'm getting at soon is to how Prince and Michael fought so hard to tell the next generations the blueprint to owning your businesses and how to do investments. I'm writing it out now and hope I can get some help and knowledge from everyone who doesn't mind sharing their point of views.

Thank you for posting, I really appreciate it, thank you.

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Reply #11 posted 06/06/17 10:18pm

liljojo

MickyDolenz said:

liljojo said:

I'm going after the entertainment industry using Prince and MJ.

The entertainment industry used everybody, no matter what the race. White acts also got ripped off by the labels, managers, & promoters and/or died broke. Allen Klein's company owns the early Rolling Stones records and also a lot of Sam Cooke's material. Klein is also one of the factors in The Beatles breaking up and the lawsuits they had in the 1970s. Songwriting copyright was originally invented by the labels to primarily to benefit them, not really the writers. That's why labels own the master recordings of their acts. People think that the acts are independent bosses of themselves. No, they're an employee of a company. If a video game designer works for Atari or Nintendo, their games belong to that company. An actor & director works for a movie or TV studio. The studio owns the movies. So they're making a product for the company they work for to sell.


I'm using MJ and Prince because I follow them, and I appreciate your posts Micky because it's including new knowledge for me to learn. That's why I want everybody to post and share their ideals and point of views. I am not going to talk about other artists because I don't know all the information from other artists but with your help and others we can make dialogue and hopefully give others blueprints and knowledge about the entertainment industry.

As for your employee of a company comment, Prince himself said employees get benefits and a chance to build retirement funds or put money towards a partnership aka Stocks. A lot of entertainers complain about not having health insurance especially when touring on the road and not having a enough funds to get care while being injured. If you get sick while being a employee of lets say Bank of America you have the option to get health insurance which is paid by you and the employer. If you get hurt on the job you get workers compensation. But Prince and several other entertainers have said they're not given an option to get insurance and if they get hurt while working touring and promoting etc, they don't get workers compensation. What is your take on that?

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Reply #12 posted 06/06/17 11:11pm

MickyDolenz

liljojo said:

As for your employee of a company comment, Prince himself said employees get benefits and a chance to build retirement funds or put money towards a partnership aka Stocks. A lot of entertainers complain about not having health insurance especially when touring on the road and not having a enough funds to get care while being injured. If you get sick while being a employee of lets say Bank of America you have the option to get health insurance which is paid by you and the employer. If you get hurt on the job you get workers compensation. But Prince and several other entertainers have said they're not given an option to get insurance and if they get hurt while working touring and promoting etc, they don't get workers compensation. What is your take on that?

That depends on what the job is. Many minumum wage jobs like fast food & Wal-Mart are not designed to be full time, so don't have to pay any medical benefits or overtime. Same if you're working for tips or a migrant worker picking fruit or a sweatshop worker. The people in Korea or somewhere making shoes for Nike don't get any stock options or retirement and they get paid little money. Chocolate & coffee beans today are often picked by unpaid slave labor and it's unlikely they have any workers comp. If you eat chocolate, there's a chance that slavery is behind it, same for diamond jewelry.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor / We can't be Phil Collins & The Genesis! You don't even play drums! ~ Ricky Bell to Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #13 posted 06/07/17 12:43am

liljojo

MickyDolenz said:

liljojo said:

As for your employee of a company comment, Prince himself said employees get benefits and a chance to build retirement funds or put money towards a partnership aka Stocks. A lot of entertainers complain about not having health insurance especially when touring on the road and not having a enough funds to get care while being injured. If you get sick while being a employee of lets say Bank of America you have the option to get health insurance which is paid by you and the employer. If you get hurt on the job you get workers compensation. But Prince and several other entertainers have said they're not given an option to get insurance and if they get hurt while working touring and promoting etc, they don't get workers compensation. What is your take on that?

That depends on what the job is. Many minumum wage jobs like fast food & Wal-Mart are not designed to be full time, so don't have to pay any medical benefits or overtime. Same if you're working for tips or a migrant worker picking fruit or a sweatshop worker. The people in Korea or somewhere making shoes for Nike don't get any stock options or retirement and they get paid little money. Chocolate & coffee beans today are often picked by unpaid slave labor and it's unlikely they have any workers comp. If you eat chocolate, there's a chance that slavery is behind it, same for diamond jewelry.


Mickey I'm loving your posts org fam!

Too bad I can't eat chocolate (crohn's disease neutral sad ), but that's many people complaints and the issues with the human race. Something Prince and Michael both was speaking about was the lack of knowledge for poverty and middle class people, especially in the black communities. A lot of people are living to work and not working to live. Working systems like the examples you just explained was the reason behind prince SLAVE era fight. Anytime you're doing hard labor or any kind of work for little to no pay legal or illegal is slave work. Look at New Edition group for example, did a entire tour and all basically for free, same thing with SWV, N'Sync, TLC, Little Richard, everybody on Bad Boy records, Sly Stone, George Clinton, and many more. Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder was 2 of the few that earned money off their records and kept their royalites and masters to their music. Paul McCourtney was one of the few that got a chance to own his songs and Yoko to own John Lennon songs but didn't feel he should have to pay for them.

Yes Michael Jackson brought the ATV catalogue but what a lot of people don't know is MJ gave Paul double the money for his songs and did his best to give Lil' Richard all his masters and royalities catalogue but Sony wasn't trying to have that happen. This is thing I'm getting at, people are so quick to gossip about dumb ass fucking bullshit about Michael and Prince. People don't know that Prince brought several artists contracts like Larry and Chaka, and also helped families like Trayvon Martin parents. The black community have a very small few that uplift both artists and appreciated them while the majority called them coons and sellouts. The entertainment industry crucified both MJ and Prince when they started speaking about the importance of having LLC licensing and publishing rights. If you look at Prince 1998 BET interview he goes into depth about this. I know you mentioned VIBE earlier, but when MJ and Prince was trying to teach the black community and other entertainers about hard work and learning how to invest and grow money so you can become wealthy not rich but wealthy the name calling started. If you are teaching equality, self love and awareness, and having a knowledge of investing and owning your own business then you are a homosexual, weird, drug addict, or a coon.

Hang tight, babysitting twins they 4 months old and wearing me out lol

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Reply #14 posted 06/07/17 5:09am

mjscarousal

avatar

liljojo said:

mjscarousal said:

Well it was just one small thing, yea I was nit picking razz When you went into saying MJ was depressed about the commercial performance of OTW. Yes, he was disappointed that he didn't received more awards but I would not characterize his state as depressed. However, every single thing you said I agree 100% and I am so glad you made this thread although it wont get a lot of replies. I can talk ALL day about this subject matter. Given the shitty and dying state of the current pop music industry, music fans IMO should be more criticial and analytical about the way certain artists are projected and treated. There are many AGENDAS that the current music industry promotes and most of them have nothing to do with music or talent. The same with how they tried to tear down Prince and MJ in order to turn the public against them. Music fans talk about these issues but the org doesn't because their not critical thinkers and take everything for face value.

Bottom line, the industry only wants Black people to tap dance and sing for them....thats IT. They dont want you to do anything challenging or thought provoking (cause you know tap dancing and shaking our ass is all we good for) but as soon as you use your platform to really make some type of political statement about racism and how Black singers/minorities are marginalized by the establishment, they are going to tear you down and that exactly what they did to Prince and MJ, MJ particularly.Y You become a threat.

[Edited 6/6/17 20:32pm]


I agree! I will edit that part and replace depressed with maybe upset or not happy tomorrow when I post the my next part about Prince and MJ challenging the industry and fans to read and learn to OWN your works and the difference between partnership and just another slave. Where I'm getting at soon is to how Prince and Michael fought so hard to tell the next generations the blueprint to owning your businesses and how to do investments. I'm writing it out now and hope I can get some help and knowledge from everyone who doesn't mind sharing their point of views.

Thank you for posting, I really appreciate it, thank you.

You would think that given all that MJ, Prince, Stevie, and the Black pioneers did to challenge the system this current generation would try to model more off of it. However, this generation doesn't seem to care about ownership and standing up for themselves against corporate big heads. Fame and success is more important to them than their dignity and freedom. That is why I feel very sorry for this generation. There is only a few that don't allow the industry to manipulate them and they play by their own rules (i.e. Janelle Monae). Unfornately, these type of artists don't get their just due but I have tremendous more respect for them. I have respect for anybody willing to stand up for themselves and whats right and willing to risk their reputation to do so. That is why MJ and Prince are more than just Icons, there heroes.

[Edited 6/7/17 5:09am]

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #15 posted 06/07/17 5:19am

mjscarousal

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No big name Black pop star today would do this, there careers would be over. Liljojo why is this stuff always swept under the rug?

Nobody today would call out the industry and explain how Black artists are mistreated.

What Black pop star today going to call out a major White record executive of a label?

And WHO is going to write slave on their face? CHANGE their damn name so the White man doesn't profit anymore off of it and Call out the industry?

prince-slave.jpg

You're right, they also discussed the importance of artists, particularly Black artists owning the rights to their muisc but I love their overall messages against injustice and corruption in the industry. Sad that they suffered as a result.

[Edited 6/7/17 5:24am]

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #16 posted 06/07/17 8:09am

Layzie

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^^It's ridiculous how MJ got flack for speaking out at the time. He told no lies but people (white and black) slammed him for that.

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Reply #17 posted 06/07/17 8:29pm

mjscarousal

avatar

Layzie said:

^^It's ridiculous how MJ got flack for speaking out at the time. He told no lies but people (white and black) slammed him for that.

It is ridiculous, they called him "crazy" for speaking out and telling the truth.

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #18 posted 06/08/17 7:11am

ThePanther

avatar

liljojo said:

Prince Roger Nelson was been one of the top musicians ever to grace the music world you all know his accomplishments and speak on them every chance. But what we don't speak about is his importance on being free to make money off your own talent.

Michael Joseph Jackson was another musical genius to grace the music world and his accomplishments speak for themselves also. But again we don't speak about his importance on making money off your own talent.

Some orgers fuss and fight over simple dumb media bad journalism articles on both artists and make dumb MJ vs Prince articles but lets see how both artist became enemies of not just the music world but of rich racism people with slave mentality.

Let the pissing off folks begin!!!!!

Michael Jackson released the Off The Wall album, that many people was said to be one of the best albums out of his catalogue. Which had 4 top 10 singles (Rock With, DSTYGE, Off The Wall [My personal favorite], and She's Out Of My Life). Many including Michael himself thought he should have earned more awards and acknowledgement. But because he was black he didn't receive the just do for his work. After being unhappy about this, he came up with a plan that produced Thriller. Thriller unexpectedly became waaaay too huge for the a black artist in the music industry breaking elvis record sells which mad a lot of people angry. So how can they knock MJ off without another racial outcry from blacks and fair minded caucasians like David Bowie? Use another upcoming raising star, Prince Roger Nelson.

Prince Nelson, a talented super talented musician who honestly was being ignored for from the albums For You – 1999, and which I think he put out some of his best music. When Prince released Purple Rain the movie and soundtrack, he got so much support it surprised him. Trust me going from barely selling 4 million albums of 1999 to 13 million was an amazing accomplishment. But unlike MJ, Prince wasn’t about to follow the rules and shut up and be humble. Prince didn’t participate in the several events that the industry world wanted him including the We Are The World foundation song. This truly pissed the industry off and caused a horrible backlash. Let the drama begin……. On my next post!!!

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

[Edited 6/7/17 16:26pm]


This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.


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Reply #19 posted 06/08/17 8:38am

Dasein

ThePanther said:

liljojo said:

Prince Roger Nelson was been one of the top musicians ever to grace the music world you all know his accomplishments and speak on them every chance. But what we don't speak about is his importance on being free to make money off your own talent.

Michael Joseph Jackson was another musical genius to grace the music world and his accomplishments speak for themselves also. But again we don't speak about his importance on making money off your own talent.

Some orgers fuss and fight over simple dumb media bad journalism articles on both artists and make dumb MJ vs Prince articles but lets see how both artist became enemies of not just the music world but of rich racism people with slave mentality.

Let the pissing off folks begin!!!!!

Michael Jackson released the Off The Wall album, that many people was said to be one of the best albums out of his catalogue. Which had 4 top 10 singles (Rock With, DSTYGE, Off The Wall [My personal favorite], and She's Out Of My Life). Many including Michael himself thought he should have earned more awards and acknowledgement. But because he was black he didn't receive the just do for his work. After being unhappy about this, he came up with a plan that produced Thriller. Thriller unexpectedly became waaaay too huge for the a black artist in the music industry breaking elvis record sells which mad a lot of people angry. So how can they knock MJ off without another racial outcry from blacks and fair minded caucasians like David Bowie? Use another upcoming raising star, Prince Roger Nelson.

Prince Nelson, a talented super talented musician who honestly was being ignored for from the albums For You – 1999, and which I think he put out some of his best music. When Prince released Purple Rain the movie and soundtrack, he got so much support it surprised him. Trust me going from barely selling 4 million albums of 1999 to 13 million was an amazing accomplishment. But unlike MJ, Prince wasn’t about to follow the rules and shut up and be humble. Prince didn’t participate in the several events that the industry world wanted him including the We Are The World foundation song. This truly pissed the industry off and caused a horrible backlash. Let the drama begin……. On my next post!!!

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

[Edited 6/7/17 16:26pm]


This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.



You beat me to the punch, Panther; Liljojo's post is really ridiculous as s/he's playing to the
lowest common denominator for many Orgers: Prince and Michael Jackson were talented Black
men who were defiant against and in spite of oppressive white suits in showbusiness.

rolleyes

If this forum wasn't so insistent upon tongue kissing their Michael Jackson and Prince idols each
and every morning, maybe it would have recognized what we did.

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Reply #20 posted 06/08/17 11:08am

jjhunsecker

avatar

ThePanther said:



liljojo said:


Prince Roger Nelson was been one of the top musicians ever to grace the music world you all know his accomplishments and speak on them every chance. But what we don't speak about is his importance on being free to make money off your own talent.

Michael Joseph Jackson was another musical genius to grace the music world and his accomplishments speak for themselves also. But again we don't speak about his importance on making money off your own talent.

Some orgers fuss and fight over simple dumb media bad journalism articles on both artists and make dumb MJ vs Prince articles but lets see how both artist became enemies of not just the music world but of rich racism people with slave mentality.

Let the pissing off folks begin!!!!!

Michael Jackson released the Off The Wall album, that many people was said to be one of the best albums out of his catalogue. Which had 4 top 10 singles (Rock With, DSTYGE, Off The Wall [My personal favorite], and She's Out Of My Life). Many including Michael himself thought he should have earned more awards and acknowledgement. But because he was black he didn't receive the just do for his work. After being unhappy about this, he came up with a plan that produced Thriller. Thriller unexpectedly became waaaay too huge for the a black artist in the music industry breaking elvis record sells which mad a lot of people angry. So how can they knock MJ off without another racial outcry from blacks and fair minded caucasians like David Bowie? Use another upcoming raising star, Prince Roger Nelson.

Prince Nelson, a talented super talented musician who honestly was being ignored for from the albums For You – 1999, and which I think he put out some of his best music. When Prince released Purple Rain the movie and soundtrack, he got so much support it surprised him. Trust me going from barely selling 4 million albums of 1999 to 13 million was an amazing accomplishment. But unlike MJ, Prince wasn’t about to follow the rules and shut up and be humble. Prince didn’t participate in the several events that the industry world wanted him including the We Are The World foundation song. This truly pissed the industry off and caused a horrible backlash. Let the drama begin……. On my next post!!!

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.


[Edited 6/7/17 16:26pm]




This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.




So true about Elvis- he always gave credit to his Black inspirations. And those Black musicians who met him, such as Ivy Joe Hunter, Jackie Wilson, and James Brown, said he was very gracious and humble towards them. I suspect a lot of flack Elvis gets is BECAUSE he was a White Southerner, and folks are projecting their views of what they think that entails onto him.
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Reply #21 posted 06/08/17 3:46pm

TonyVanDam

ThePanther said:

liljojo said:

Prince Roger Nelson was been one of the top musicians ever to grace the music world you all know his accomplishments and speak on them every chance. But what we don't speak about is his importance on being free to make money off your own talent.

Michael Joseph Jackson was another musical genius to grace the music world and his accomplishments speak for themselves also. But again we don't speak about his importance on making money off your own talent.

Some orgers fuss and fight over simple dumb media bad journalism articles on both artists and make dumb MJ vs Prince articles but lets see how both artist became enemies of not just the music world but of rich racism people with slave mentality.

Let the pissing off folks begin!!!!!

Michael Jackson released the Off The Wall album, that many people was said to be one of the best albums out of his catalogue. Which had 4 top 10 singles (Rock With, DSTYGE, Off The Wall [My personal favorite], and She's Out Of My Life). Many including Michael himself thought he should have earned more awards and acknowledgement. But because he was black he didn't receive the just do for his work. After being unhappy about this, he came up with a plan that produced Thriller. Thriller unexpectedly became waaaay too huge for the a black artist in the music industry breaking elvis record sells which mad a lot of people angry. So how can they knock MJ off without another racial outcry from blacks and fair minded caucasians like David Bowie? Use another upcoming raising star, Prince Roger Nelson.

Prince Nelson, a talented super talented musician who honestly was being ignored for from the albums For You – 1999, and which I think he put out some of his best music. When Prince released Purple Rain the movie and soundtrack, he got so much support it surprised him. Trust me going from barely selling 4 million albums of 1999 to 13 million was an amazing accomplishment. But unlike MJ, Prince wasn’t about to follow the rules and shut up and be humble. Prince didn’t participate in the several events that the industry world wanted him including the We Are The World foundation song. This truly pissed the industry off and caused a horrible backlash. Let the drama begin……. On my next post!!!

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

[Edited 6/7/17 16:26pm]


This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.



Wrong! no no no! At best, Prince would have definitely earned a Ph.D in music. I can vision him being a great music professor in any university music department.

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Reply #22 posted 06/08/17 7:51pm

liljojo

ThePanther said:

liljojo said:

Prince Roger Nelson was been one of the top musicians ever to grace the music world you all know his accomplishments and speak on them every chance. But what we don't speak about is his importance on being free to make money off your own talent.

Michael Joseph Jackson was another musical genius to grace the music world and his accomplishments speak for themselves also. But again we don't speak about his importance on making money off your own talent.

Some orgers fuss and fight over simple dumb media bad journalism articles on both artists and make dumb MJ vs Prince articles but lets see how both artist became enemies of not just the music world but of rich racism people with slave mentality.

Let the pissing off folks begin!!!!!

Michael Jackson released the Off The Wall album, that many people was said to be one of the best albums out of his catalogue. Which had 4 top 10 singles (Rock With, DSTYGE, Off The Wall [My personal favorite], and She's Out Of My Life). Many including Michael himself thought he should have earned more awards and acknowledgement. But because he was black he didn't receive the just do for his work. After being unhappy about this, he came up with a plan that produced Thriller. Thriller unexpectedly became waaaay too huge for the a black artist in the music industry breaking elvis record sells which mad a lot of people angry. So how can they knock MJ off without another racial outcry from blacks and fair minded caucasians like David Bowie? Use another upcoming raising star, Prince Roger Nelson.

Prince Nelson, a talented super talented musician who honestly was being ignored for from the albums For You – 1999, and which I think he put out some of his best music. When Prince released Purple Rain the movie and soundtrack, he got so much support it surprised him. Trust me going from barely selling 4 million albums of 1999 to 13 million was an amazing accomplishment. But unlike MJ, Prince wasn’t about to follow the rules and shut up and be humble. Prince didn’t participate in the several events that the industry world wanted him including the We Are The World foundation song. This truly pissed the industry off and caused a horrible backlash. Let the drama begin……. On my next post!!!

Sidenote: For those who don’t know about David Bowie interview with MTV asking why they don’t play more black artist, the beatles on why Motown music not being respected when the black artist performs but when they perform white America jump on it. Do some research and you will see how they took a stand and why the black community have such a very hard time accepted Elvis, whom never spoke up for black artists being treated unfairly smdh.

[Edited 6/7/17 16:26pm]


This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.



First off let me say thank you ThePanther for your post, I appreciate it.

My thesis is not about racism (trust me, I wouldn't post about racism on here and those years are over for me been speaking about racism from africa to USA/UK. It's hard to talk about it because every body race was a slave in history.) My thesis is working around Prince and MJ and their fight with the entertainment industry. Also, included some of things said by white and black music artists that lived in that day and time that I know about. I got slave from MJ and Prince calling the entertainment business that. Plus MJ and Prince are both black artists so I can't really speak as white man on two black man. I wanted to add John Lennon because he said the same thing about the entertainment industry. So no this is not about slavery in North America or racism from my point of view.

Also just as you people in history say Elvis was gracious to the black community you have the otherside that say the opposite. Whether you respect that otherside or not doesn't erase their experience and feelings towards Elvis. Just as you are sharing your views very bluntly, so did others. Again none of this is based on my personal feelings or views.

Next thing is, if I was to type detail for detail every single thing it would be long. Also I asked for help and different point of views. Which is why ThePanther, I appreciate your post and passion behind it. How is one to learn without the wisdom of the elders?

This thread was open by me to start the conversation of Prince and MJ views on the entertainment industry and to discuss why they felt like slaves instead of partners. Why they felt the need to explain and warn the next generations about contracts and how to read them. Why they felt being a black artist in the USA was different than anywhere else. What you can't deny is, when both artist starting speaking out that they was brutally attacked and called out of their names instead of the industry explaining why they did what they did. I feel like many others Prince and MJ had some great contracts than 90% of the industry but that's not really what they are talking about. That's why I used N'Sync and TLC as the examples that Prince and MJ was talking about. I know about both N'Sync and TLC contracts really good and those contracts was terrible. I also said Bad Boy records contracts too and some others to make the playing field equal. So again I'm not promoting racism & slavery as my thesis but having a discussion on Prince and MJ opinions of the music industry and how they tried to help and warn their respected communities which happened to be minorities in the USA, especially blacks.

Thanks again for your post.

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Reply #23 posted 06/08/17 7:57pm

liljojo

Dasein said:

ThePanther said:


This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.



You beat me to the punch, Panther; Liljojo's post is really ridiculous as s/he's playing to the
lowest common denominator for many Orgers: Prince and Michael Jackson were talented Black
men who were defiant against and in spite of oppressive white suits in showbusiness.

rolleyes

If this forum wasn't so insistent upon tongue kissing their Michael Jackson and Prince idols each
and every morning, maybe it would have recognized what we did.


I'm a he not a she lol !

I might have missed something, with the highlighted comment above. What do you mean by what we did?

Thank you for your post Dasein

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Reply #24 posted 06/08/17 8:14pm

liljojo

jjhunsecker said:

ThePanther said:


This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.


So true about Elvis- he always gave credit to his Black inspirations. And those Black musicians who met him, such as Ivy Joe Hunter, Jackie Wilson, and James Brown, said he was very gracious and humble towards them. I suspect a lot of flack Elvis gets is BECAUSE he was a White Southerner, and folks are projecting their views of what they think that entails onto him.


Just spoke to my grandfather about this who's 78 yrs old today and he said "Jojo, lets keep it real, what do you think would've happened back in the 40's -70's if each black artist would've said the opposite about Elvis?

So again, not everyone opinion on Elvis is the same or seen as genuine. Just so you all that feel like Elvis is being targeted because he's a southerner, then way do Frank Sinatra get so much respect in the black community? A lot of people around 69 - 87 yrs old say Elvis never really stood up for black performers or the black community but Frank Sinatra did. Plus Elvis wife, was seen as a HUGE racist and I kind of feel because of her Elvis got called a racist. Again I don't know how true any of this is and just repeating people from that era views and opinions. But I don't have the answers.


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Reply #25 posted 06/08/17 9:24pm

liljojo

These are Prince own words in this interview. This is where my info is coming from and some other interviews of his.

You can be mad or degrade me for posting these things but I'm not going to sit around keep talking about Prince and MJ as if they became weird for talking other things besides music. That's a insult to them and I'm going to keep it respectful because I want this thread to be open and not closed because it's obviously none like it. I want us to debate and not be afraid of the others and share your point of views.

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Reply #26 posted 06/09/17 12:00am

jjhunsecker

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liljojo said:



jjhunsecker said:


ThePanther said:



This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.




So true about Elvis- he always gave credit to his Black inspirations. And those Black musicians who met him, such as Ivy Joe Hunter, Jackie Wilson, and James Brown, said he was very gracious and humble towards them. I suspect a lot of flack Elvis gets is BECAUSE he was a White Southerner, and folks are projecting their views of what they think that entails onto him.


Just spoke to my grandfather about this who's 78 yrs old today and he said "Jojo, lets keep it real, what do you think would've happened back in the 40's -70's if each black artist would've said the opposite about Elvis?

So again, not everyone opinion on Elvis is the same or seen as genuine. Just so you all that feel like Elvis is being targeted because he's a southerner, then way do Frank Sinatra get so much respect in the black community? A lot of people around 69 - 87 yrs old say Elvis never really stood up for black performers or the black community but Frank Sinatra did. Plus Elvis wife, was seen as a HUGE racist and I kind of feel because of her Elvis got called a racist. Again I don't know how true any of this is and just repeating people from that era views and opinions. But I don't have the answers.




Just remember this : James Brown went to Elvis's funeral, and in his own words, was crying at the coffin. Nobody forced Mr. Brown to be there .
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Reply #27 posted 06/09/17 2:54am

mjscarousal

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jjhunsecker said:

ThePanther said:


This is one of the most uninformed posts I've seen on here.

If your thesis is that the world (particularly the US, in this case) is racist and that African-Americans often suffer from it -- BINGO!! We have a winner! Congrats on making it to junior-high school, but I don't think you're telling us anything we don't know.

Then, the idea of "Prince... mak[ing] money off his own talent". I'm guessing you're American and like the myth of the self-made man if you actually think that is in any way realistic. It's not. Prince was perfectly free in his youth to not sign a record-deal and try making money off his own talent without a record label. Had he done so, he might still be alive today but he'd be working at Wendy's, serving burgers (or maybe he'd have gone to college and would now be a low-level executive at a Minneapolis tire-supplier).

Next: You claim that Michael Jackson's sales (might want to work on your spelling) were more than Elvis's, which made a lot of people angry. Who exactly did this make angry? I know of no one.

Then, why of all things are you raising the issue of 'We Are the World' as something that pissed off the music industry against Prince? If you didn't notice, 'We Are the World' was essentially a black record -- written by two black guys, produced by a black guy, and featured a cavalcade of black vocalists. The reaction against Prince's deciding to go clubbing instead of swallowing his ego and joining in for a few hours had absolutely nothing to do with race.

I have noticed that "the black community" (nebulous concept at best) does have a hard time dealing with Elvis. I don't know why. Elvis was a white southerner, so there's that -- but as white southerners go, he was unusually gracious to blacks and never had anything bad to say about 'the black community'. He said nice things about blacks many times, gave credit to them for most of his inspirations, and hired several blacks in his backing groups.

Anyway, your posts is silly and inaccurate. Prince and Michael Jackson were not slaves, and to use that word to describe them would be, I imagine, rather offensive to a lot of people who understand what real slavery was/is.


So true about Elvis- he always gave credit to his Black inspirations. And those Black musicians who met him, such as Ivy Joe Hunter, Jackie Wilson, and James Brown, said he was very gracious and humble towards them. I suspect a lot of flack Elvis gets is BECAUSE he was a White Southerner, and folks are projecting their views of what they think that entails onto him.

Elvis never openly supported and advocated for the Black artists that inspired him. He has NEVER openly acknowledge any of the Black songwriters that wrote his music.

And before someone runs in here and post pictures of him and Jackie Wilson, being photographed is not the same as advocating and speaking out for Black artists.

Elvis gets flacked because most of his music, image, and performances were modeled off Black musicians and entertainers and he has never properly acknowledge and gave credit to these Black masterminds behind his work. NONE of the Black songwriters that wrote his music get paid for those classics. I have NEVER heard Elvis call Chuck Berry or Little Richard the true Kings of Rock N Roll and if he has please direct me to a quote or video. I have never watched a video where Elvis talks about the Black performers and entertainers that inspired him.

Yall are giving him WAY to much credit. He is the eptiome of manufactured star. He took some photos with Jackie and James but that doesn't mean he was vocal and advocated for their accomplishments and impact on Rock N Roll, thats complete B.S.

[Edited 6/9/17 2:58am]

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #28 posted 06/09/17 3:04am

mjscarousal

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jjhunsecker said:

liljojo said:


Just spoke to my grandfather about this who's 78 yrs old today and he said "Jojo, lets keep it real, what do you think would've happened back in the 40's -70's if each black artist would've said the opposite about Elvis?

So again, not everyone opinion on Elvis is the same or seen as genuine. Just so you all that feel like Elvis is being targeted because he's a southerner, then way do Frank Sinatra get so much respect in the black community? A lot of people around 69 - 87 yrs old say Elvis never really stood up for black performers or the black community but Frank Sinatra did. Plus Elvis wife, was seen as a HUGE racist and I kind of feel because of her Elvis got called a racist. Again I don't know how true any of this is and just repeating people from that era views and opinions. But I don't have the answers.


Just remember this : James Brown went to Elvis's funeral, and in his own words, was crying at the coffin. Nobody forced Mr. Brown to be there .

There were people that showed up at MJ and Prince funeral that didn't advocate and support them when they were alive. That doesn't prove anything imo. James obviously respected Elvis. HOWEVER, Elvis has never advocated for the unfair discrimination Black musicians and performers endured in the 50s. You giving him way to much credit.

[Edited 6/9/17 3:05am]

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #29 posted 06/09/17 3:07am

liljojo

jjhunsecker said:

liljojo said:


Just spoke to my grandfather about this who's 78 yrs old today and he said "Jojo, lets keep it real, what do you think would've happened back in the 40's -70's if each black artist would've said the opposite about Elvis?

So again, not everyone opinion on Elvis is the same or seen as genuine. Just so you all that feel like Elvis is being targeted because he's a southerner, then way do Frank Sinatra get so much respect in the black community? A lot of people around 69 - 87 yrs old say Elvis never really stood up for black performers or the black community but Frank Sinatra did. Plus Elvis wife, was seen as a HUGE racist and I kind of feel because of her Elvis got called a racist. Again I don't know how true any of this is and just repeating people from that era views and opinions. But I don't have the answers.


Just remember this : James Brown went to Elvis's funeral, and in his own words, was crying at the coffin. Nobody forced Mr. Brown to be there .


Well this is where I have to bow out gracefully and hope someone besides my grandpa and others can explain that to you all. I honestly don't listen to Elvis or follow him, I'm a Frank Sinatra admirer along with the rat pack. That's who my granddaddy love and said stood up for the black community and even refused to perform where black people wasn't treated equally. As for Elvis wife my grandma and her sisters was fans until they said Elvis tried to take a picture with them and she said "Don't take a picture with them dirty nigg*rs" and this wasn't the first time I've heard that about her. Several women in the south has had bad experiences with Elvis wife and I personally feel that's where the negative reaction starts. But that's not what this thread about.

I want us to be able to discuss why two of the greatest black artists of the 80's felt the way they did. If you feel I'm wrong I posted some interviews and so did mjcarousal to show you what we are talking about. Nobody is here to bash Elvis and I don't want it to turn into that. If you want my personal opinion on Elvis here it is, musically it's not my taste and neither is a lot of music from that time. I do believe he had a great heart but wasn't able to share it like he wanted. Yes, racism unfortunately, played a part in him being afraid to show love to other races but he wasn't the only caucasian artist whom witness racism and lynching’s around that time. Just like Michael Jordan was quiet and separated himself away from society talks on racism, Elvis did this also, and I believe because he wasn't very vocal like Frank Sinatra the black community felt his silence on the subject matter meant he agreed. I don't feel that way about him and I really believed he was tormented just like Michael Jackson was due to the music industry spreading lies and feeding him drugs. I really hate the way he passed away but there’s a reason why Elvis, Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Heath Ledger, Gerald Levert, and etc celebrities are dying from drugs and being broke by the time of their deaths. I will love to discuss that, and if you think Michael Jackson and Prince are lying about everything they said about the entertainment business in these videos and interviews then do some research and share why you think their not being honest in your views. Don't use me as a escape go because it's not my views.



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