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Reply #90 posted 06/15/17 3:17am

RODSERLING

Try this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXnzDmqxn9w

Bad quality, but you can hear it in good quality by going to Brad Sundberg's seminar.

I also had the chance to hear FAMILY THING, that were supposed to be on the soundtrack of ADAM's FAMILY 2.

dance4me3121 said:

RODSERLING said:

Derek1984 said:

I've been out of the loop for a while. Just wondering, has anything unreleased been leaked in the past year?

Oh yes Which songs? [Edited 6/14/17 23:23pm]

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Reply #91 posted 06/15/17 3:27am

RODSERLING

bluegangsta said:

RODSERLING said:

The music video of BTFLS was supposed to be the remix with Eve.

.

I think the music video would have launched it in the top 10, and have better effect on the album.

Source? You keep making these random claims without citing evidence.

I am a huge MJ fan, and followed every news concerning him.

.

For this news, I read it on MJdatabank at the time, that took itfrom Billboard, entertainment weekly or something like that, and read it on a musical magazine, on an article about Eve.

IIRC it was supposed to be shot in an hotel or something like that, and Eve was supposed to be MJ's love interest. Since Eve was supposed to be in it, you can bet that was the remix version.

.

It was even reported by ONE OF THE cASCIOS Brother that MJ wasn't satisfied with the concept of the music video and wanted more budget, because they allowed him only a ridiculous budget, according to MJ.

.

It was surely a budget like rnb things at the time, like Usher or Alicia Keys, music video that needs ony one stage, and 1 day of shooting.

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Reply #92 posted 06/15/17 3:54am

RODSERLING

Free2BMe said:

RODSERLING said:

Insiders also said that MJ made everything to screw up promotion of the album in order to put the blame on Sony.

.

Let's stick to the facts : Sony spent 20 millions in recording and 25 millions in promotion of INVINCIBLE. Including 4 millions for YRMW and 1 million for CRY. MJ refused to be involved in the creation of the music video, he refused to do CRY, BTFLS.

.

He wanted only to get do UNBREAK, but fired 2 directors because nobody came with a real good concept.

.

If Sony wanted to fuck up the promotion, they would have released YOU ARE MY LIFE as a lead single without a music video, they woildn't have done 5 color editions, etc.

.

No need to be einstein to know that. Every other rnb artist at the time benefited from much less promotion than MJ, but sold more.

I say bullshit to the assertion that Sony spent 25 million on promotion of Invincible. Insiders did say that Motolla allowed Michael to run up recording costs. Of course, that was part of the end game. Motolla knew what he was doing. There is a reason that his ass was pushed out the door and it had shit to do with it being him voluntarily leaving. [Edited 6/13/17 23:39pm]

4 millions on YRMW, 1 million in CRY.That makes already 5 millions.

.

Payola was about 2/3 millions, that makes 8 millions.

.

There was an anticipated budget for UNBREAK at 6 millions. 2 Directors, including Dave Meyers were engaged by Sony, and fired by MJ.

.

Eventually, MJ tried to produce it with Mel Gibson's production society, then it was rumored that Brett Ratner would took over the project. All of this is not free.

.

INVINCIBLE had the record for having shipped 3 millions albums in 4 days, I can assure you this is not free : that means that Sony gave priorities in their factories to print INVINCIBLE, despite the others releases.

.

INVINCIBLE broke numerous alltime record for a release in France ,being the best selling album in the week of release. YRMW was the first record to be #1 in airplay the week of release. It was eventually the first record to be #1 in airplay, sales and music club simultaneously. If you think this is free, you are very naive...

.

Mottola wasn't fired because of the supposed lack of promotion for Invincible. Complete BS. In fact, Mottola was only responsible for Sony America, and in the US the album and singles were successfull, despite lack of promotion from MJ. So with your logic, he should have been awarded !

.

Mottola's goal was to make MJ successfull for Sony, not destroying him, that makes no sense at all. MJ owned them 2 albums, and reeditions until 2012.

.

The guy that should have been fired was the director of Sony Uk lol, because Invincible was a flop there.

.

Once Mottola was fired, the truth is that MJ's situation in Sony only became worst. Sony shut the studio's door to MJ, and from then on, MJ was forced to record at his own expenses.

[Edited 6/15/17 3:55am]

[Edited 6/15/17 3:59am]

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Reply #93 posted 06/16/17 5:49pm

214

RODSERLING said:

214 said:

How so?

What is called in the US "adult contemporary rnb" has absolutely no audience in Europe, hence the failure of CRY.

.

Pieces of crap such as Insatiable, X's and Q's, Call My Name, This could Be uS, songs like that, get zero airplay in Europe.

Are you callin Call My Name crap?

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Reply #94 posted 06/16/17 11:24pm

bboy87

avatar

dance4me3121 said:

RODSERLING said:

Derek1984 said:

I've been out of the loop for a while. Just wondering, has anything unreleased been leaked in the past year?

Oh yes Which songs? [Edited 6/14/17 23:23pm]

Actual songs? No but this past year, multitracks for

Don't Stop Til You Get Enough

She's Out of My Life

Off The Wall

Burn This Disco Out

Girlfriend

Billie Jean

Human Nature

Black or White

Blood on The Dancefloor

Farewell My Summer Love

Get on The Floor

have all leaked. Lower quality rips of Ghost of Another Love and Family Thing that was played Brad Sundberg's seminar

Video footage from the Triumph Tour in Memphis and Dangerous Tour....

oh...you meant just unreleased songs...nevermind...

[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/RFqFFi3H0cCPe/giphy.gif[/img]

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #95 posted 06/16/17 11:34pm

bboy87

avatar

RODSERLING said:

bboy87 said:

Heaven Can Wait (along with Don't Walk Away, Whatever Happens, and MAYBE 2000 Watts) could've been a hit, at least on the R&B chart. It's one of my favorite songs on the album.

Michael Prince was recently on a MJ podcast and talked about Invincible.

-There WERE plans for a tour to support Invincible but with 9/11, Michael and other artists were uneasy about touring so it was shelved.


-He felt it was weird that Sony didn't have a commercial for Invincible aired during the 30th Anniversary special on CBS

These are the reasons why Sony decided this middle finger to MJ during the 30th anniversary. Moreover MJ organised these 2 shows (that were supposed to be 3) without them. He just performed one song off the album (he could have easily done Whatever Happens with Santana). And to add fuel to the fire, Mj didn't want to tour.

According to Mottolla, he and Sony were the ones who arranged the deal for CBS to air the 30th Anniversary celebration special

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #96 posted 06/16/17 11:36pm

bboy87

avatar

An MJ fan posted a rundown from Mottola's book where he mentions the Invincible fallout



2001

Michael was working on Invincible. Mottola says Michael would write and look at 120 songs before he edited and selected the songs that would make the cut.

Michael asked Mottola to come to Hit Factory at Miami and Mottola went there with his wife Thalia. They find the whole studio empty and Michael at a recording truck on the parking lot. (Mottola mentions there were 5-6 recording rooms and each of them cost $5,000 per day to rent)

Michael tells to them he likes the recording truck because it’s quiet, peaceful and private and he can think there. Mottola says he was worried because by that time the recording expenses had exceeded $30 Million and he hasn’t heard a single song.

Michael tells Mottola that this would be biggest album and it would sell over 100 Million units.

Tommy Mottola: “I know that was how he justified all of this in his own mind. To him, it didn’t matter how much he spent— or borrowed— to create his art. He thought he would make it back as soon as the album was released and became a megahit. And all of his handlers— and I mean all of them, every single one, allowed this to happen. No one said no. Ever. You only said yes to Michael Jackson or else you were history.”

Mottola mentions how welcoming Michael was. Thalia tells Michael how she was as a teenager got on the stage with Michael and Michael opens up to them about his childhood.

Tommy Mottola: “For some reason, the image of Thalia as a young girl opened the door to Michael telling her a story about his childhood, and how hard it was for him, and what he had to endure at the hands of his father through the daily rehearsals. I’m not going to go into any of the details that he told us, but they would make any parent or child shiver. My point is, you would never mention details like those to anyone you saw as an enemy or the devil. It was so sad to hear arguably the biggest star in entertainment sitting in the back of a dimly lit recording truck telling these stories. Thalia and I almost had tears in our eyes. You wanted to just put your arms around Michael and hug him. There never was any question in my mind, then or now, that all of Michael’s intentions were loving and good, and that he was a kind soul.”

Mottola says Sony was advancing Michael tens of millions of dollars for the rent of the studio space, the producers, writers for the short films and so on. Mottola says Michael also went to the banks to get loans using Sony/ATV as collateral. Mottola says this put Michael in a very vulnerable position; Invincible had to be highly successful to cover all these millions of dollars of costs / debt. Mottola says everyone at Sony was shocked why Michael was advised not to do such decisions by his own people.

Mottola says after several years and $40 Million in costs Michael handed them Invincible album. Mottola says Sony thought Invincible was good but not Michael’s best work. However given the already high costs and how long it took for it to be finished, they did not ask Michael to go back and make some other tracks.

Mottola says that Sony helped arranged a deal with CBS to do a TV celebration of Michael’s 30th career anniversary at Madison Square Garden. This would propel into a tour and all of which will help Invincible sales.

Mottola says the Madison Square Garden concerts were a success, even the high cost tickets were sold, Michael had made $7 Million from the 2 concerts. It would have been the perfect promotion but the next day 9 /11 attacks happened and obviously no one was talking about Michael Jackson.

Michael’s Invincible album gets released, it immediately goes to Number 1 but within a month it was out of Top 10. Invincible had sold 8 Million units, the sales numbers were disappointing for everyone and not enough to cover the $40 Million expenses. Mottola says according to Michael’s perception this was not acceptable and Sony had failed him. Michael would call Dave Glew and ask him to do anything to get the album back at number one.

Tommy Mottola : “When you are used to hearing “Yes, Michael, yes, Michael, yes, Michael, yes,” from everybody who is around you, it must be unbearable to hear, “No, Michael, we cannot and will not put millions more into the promotion of this album.” Sales had completely stalled, and that was after we had already spent a global marketing budget of more than $ 25 million.”

Mottola says Michael through his lawyers told them he would not sign a new deal with Sony, he would fulfill his remaining obligations and leave Sony and be a free agent.

Mottola says then something snapped and Michael launched an all out attack on Sony and Mottola personally calling him mean, racist and devilish.

Mottola says he called Al Sharpton immediately to ask him what was going on. Sharpton would apologize and tell that he had no idea that Michael would single Mottola out. It was supposed to be about inequality.

Tommy Mottola: “Michael was trying to turn this into an escape hatch. He was singling me out in order to get a release from Sony. But it actually backfired on him. Did he really think he would embarrass Sony enough to walk away from approximately $ 50 million in debts or from our joint venture in the Beatles catalog? Michael even tried to bring Mariah into it, knowing that she had just left Sony. But quickly a spokesperson for Mariah defended me and pointed out that Mariah was very unhappy that Michael had dragged her into it. Meanwhile, Reverend Al and Russell Simmons were quoted in newspapers speaking out on my behalf, as well as Sony’s.”

Tommy Mottola: “I remained quiet at the time and took the high road, which as chairman was the road to take, because it made no sense to respond to such outrageous and ridiculous accusations. But here’s the bottom line on this: we were in the business of selling music. Sony had spent more than $ 30 million in recording costs and another $ 25 million in marketing costs, and put the full force of the company in motion to promote that album. But despite all of that, people just didn’t want to buy it.”

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #97 posted 06/16/17 11:40pm

bboy87

avatar

No automatic alt text available.

Chris Cadman (who wrote "The Maestro" and "For The Record" books) posted this on Facebook

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #98 posted 06/19/17 2:18am

RODSERLING

214 said:

RODSERLING said:

What is called in the US "adult contemporary rnb" has absolutely no audience in Europe, hence the failure of CRY.

.

Pieces of crap such as Insatiable, X's and Q's, Call My Name, This could Be uS, songs like that, get zero airplay in Europe.

Are you callin Call My Name crap?

i'm not afraid to say yes. Nothing entertaining in this song, bad melody, bad chorus, too long...Like I said, songs that could only work in the Usa rnb maket.

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Reply #99 posted 06/19/17 2:29am

RODSERLING

bboy87 said:

An MJ fan posted a rundown from Mottola's book where he mentions the Invincible fallout



2001

Michael was working on Invincible. Mottola says Michael would write and look at 120 songs before he edited and selected the songs that would make the cut.

Michael asked Mottola to come to Hit Factory at Miami and Mottola went there with his wife Thalia. They find the whole studio empty and Michael at a recording truck on the parking lot. (Mottola mentions there were 5-6 recording rooms and each of them cost $5,000 per day to rent)

Michael tells to them he likes the recording truck because it’s quiet, peaceful and private and he can think there. Mottola says he was worried because by that time the recording expenses had exceeded $30 Million and he hasn’t heard a single song.

Michael tells Mottola that this would be biggest album and it would sell over 100 Million units.

Tommy Mottola: “I know that was how he justified all of this in his own mind. To him, it didn’t matter how much he spent— or borrowed— to create his art. He thought he would make it back as soon as the album was released and became a megahit. And all of his handlers— and I mean all of them, every single one, allowed this to happen. No one said no. Ever. You only said yes to Michael Jackson or else you were history.”

Mottola mentions how welcoming Michael was. Thalia tells Michael how she was as a teenager got on the stage with Michael and Michael opens up to them about his childhood.

Tommy Mottola: “For some reason, the image of Thalia as a young girl opened the door to Michael telling her a story about his childhood, and how hard it was for him, and what he had to endure at the hands of his father through the daily rehearsals. I’m not going to go into any of the details that he told us, but they would make any parent or child shiver. My point is, you would never mention details like those to anyone you saw as an enemy or the devil. It was so sad to hear arguably the biggest star in entertainment sitting in the back of a dimly lit recording truck telling these stories. Thalia and I almost had tears in our eyes. You wanted to just put your arms around Michael and hug him. There never was any question in my mind, then or now, that all of Michael’s intentions were loving and good, and that he was a kind soul.”

Mottola says Sony was advancing Michael tens of millions of dollars for the rent of the studio space, the producers, writers for the short films and so on. Mottola says Michael also went to the banks to get loans using Sony/ATV as collateral. Mottola says this put Michael in a very vulnerable position; Invincible had to be highly successful to cover all these millions of dollars of costs / debt. Mottola says everyone at Sony was shocked why Michael was advised not to do such decisions by his own people.

Mottola says after several years and $40 Million in costs Michael handed them Invincible album. Mottola says Sony thought Invincible was good but not Michael’s best work. However given the already high costs and how long it took for it to be finished, they did not ask Michael to go back and make some other tracks.

Mottola says that Sony helped arranged a deal with CBS to do a TV celebration of Michael’s 30th career anniversary at Madison Square Garden. This would propel into a tour and all of which will help Invincible sales.

Mottola says the Madison Square Garden concerts were a success, even the high cost tickets were sold, Michael had made $7 Million from the 2 concerts. It would have been the perfect promotion but the next day 9 /11 attacks happened and obviously no one was talking about Michael Jackson.

Michael’s Invincible album gets released, it immediately goes to Number 1 but within a month it was out of Top 10. Invincible had sold 8 Million units, the sales numbers were disappointing for everyone and not enough to cover the $40 Million expenses. Mottola says according to Michael’s perception this was not acceptable and Sony had failed him. Michael would call Dave Glew and ask him to do anything to get the album back at number one.

Tommy Mottola : “When you are used to hearing “Yes, Michael, yes, Michael, yes, Michael, yes,” from everybody who is around you, it must be unbearable to hear, “No, Michael, we cannot and will not put millions more into the promotion of this album.” Sales had completely stalled, and that was after we had already spent a global marketing budget of more than $ 25 million.”

Mottola says Michael through his lawyers told them he would not sign a new deal with Sony, he would fulfill his remaining obligations and leave Sony and be a free agent.

Mottola says then something snapped and Michael launched an all out attack on Sony and Mottola personally calling him mean, racist and devilish.

Mottola says he called Al Sharpton immediately to ask him what was going on. Sharpton would apologize and tell that he had no idea that Michael would single Mottola out. It was supposed to be about inequality.

Tommy Mottola: “Michael was trying to turn this into an escape hatch. He was singling me out in order to get a release from Sony. But it actually backfired on him. Did he really think he would embarrass Sony enough to walk away from approximately $ 50 million in debts or from our joint venture in the Beatles catalog? Michael even tried to bring Mariah into it, knowing that she had just left Sony. But quickly a spokesperson for Mariah defended me and pointed out that Mariah was very unhappy that Michael had dragged her into it. Meanwhile, Reverend Al and Russell Simmons were quoted in newspapers speaking out on my behalf, as well as Sony’s.”

Tommy Mottola: “I remained quiet at the time and took the high road, which as chairman was the road to take, because it made no sense to respond to such outrageous and ridiculous accusations. But here’s the bottom line on this: we were in the business of selling music. Sony had spent more than $ 30 million in recording costs and another $ 25 million in marketing costs, and put the full force of the company in motion to promote that album. But despite all of that, people just didn’t want to buy it.”

Thanks to you. Seems like an honnest account. It was also reported by a Sony's insider that Mottola said exactly the same thing to Michael when he made them listened to 6 songs in early 2001.

.

Interestig to have another official confirmation that some people were paid to create concept for music video, that didn't happen.

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Reply #100 posted 06/19/17 2:05pm

214

RODSERLING said:

214 said:

Are you callin Call My Name crap?

i'm not afraid to say yes. Nothing entertaining in this song, bad melody, bad chorus, too long...Like I said, songs that could only work in the Usa rnb maket.

To quote Bob Dylan: " I don't believe you, you are a liar, play it fuckin loud".

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Reply #101 posted 06/19/17 2:24pm

MickyDolenz

214 said:

To quote Bob Dylan: " I don't believe you, you are a liar, play it fuckin loud".

I'm in the US and songs that are considered Quiet Storm or slow jams generally don't get Top 40 airplay here. Like I've heard Adore by Prince a whole lot on the R&B stations but I've never heard it once on a Top 40 station. The type of ballads that were popular on pop radio are mostly adult contemporary style like Lionel Richie, Michael Bolton, Whitney Houston, Boyz II Men, Celine Dion, Air Supply, Barry Manilow, etc. Top 40 is not going to play a Rene & Angela or Isley Brothers type ballad. They didn't play Atlantic Starr until they made songs like Secret Lovers & If Your Heart Isn't In It. Barbara Weathers had a more crossover voice than Sharon Bryant, who was Atlantic Starr's first female lead. In the reverse, there was a In Living Color skit that had "Whitney Houston" singing a song called Rhythmless Nation. She was considered "too pop" by some of the R&B audience.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor
Each generation has their music that they fall in love with, that makes it special to them ~ Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #102 posted 06/19/17 2:35pm

SoulAlive

bboy87 said:

An MJ fan posted a rundown from Mottola's book where he mentions the Invincible fallout



2001

Michael was working on Invincible. Mottola says Michael would write and look at 120 songs before he edited and selected the songs that would make the cut.

Michael asked Mottola to come to Hit Factory at Miami and Mottola went there with his wife Thalia. They find the whole studio empty and Michael at a recording truck on the parking lot. (Mottola mentions there were 5-6 recording rooms and each of them cost $5,000 per day to rent)

Michael tells to them he likes the recording truck because it’s quiet, peaceful and private and he can think there. Mottola says he was worried because by that time the recording expenses had exceeded $30 Million and he hasn’t heard a single song.

Michael tells Mottola that this would be biggest album and it would sell over 100 Million units.

Tommy Mottola: “I know that was how he justified all of this in his own mind. To him, it didn’t matter how much he spent— or borrowed— to create his art. He thought he would make it back as soon as the album was released and became a megahit. And all of his handlers— and I mean all of them, every single one, allowed this to happen. No one said no. Ever. You only said yes to Michael Jackson or else you were history.”

Mottola mentions how welcoming Michael was. Thalia tells Michael how she was as a teenager got on the stage with Michael and Michael opens up to them about his childhood.

Tommy Mottola: “For some reason, the image of Thalia as a young girl opened the door to Michael telling her a story about his childhood, and how hard it was for him, and what he had to endure at the hands of his father through the daily rehearsals. I’m not going to go into any of the details that he told us, but they would make any parent or child shiver. My point is, you would never mention details like those to anyone you saw as an enemy or the devil. It was so sad to hear arguably the biggest star in entertainment sitting in the back of a dimly lit recording truck telling these stories. Thalia and I almost had tears in our eyes. You wanted to just put your arms around Michael and hug him. There never was any question in my mind, then or now, that all of Michael’s intentions were loving and good, and that he was a kind soul.”

Mottola says Sony was advancing Michael tens of millions of dollars for the rent of the studio space, the producers, writers for the short films and so on. Mottola says Michael also went to the banks to get loans using Sony/ATV as collateral. Mottola says this put Michael in a very vulnerable position; Invincible had to be highly successful to cover all these millions of dollars of costs / debt. Mottola says everyone at Sony was shocked why Michael was advised not to do such decisions by his own people.

Mottola says after several years and $40 Million in costs Michael handed them Invincible album. Mottola says Sony thought Invincible was good but not Michael’s best work. However given the already high costs and how long it took for it to be finished, they did not ask Michael to go back and make some other tracks.

Mottola says that Sony helped arranged a deal with CBS to do a TV celebration of Michael’s 30th career anniversary at Madison Square Garden. This would propel into a tour and all of which will help Invincible sales.

Mottola says the Madison Square Garden concerts were a success, even the high cost tickets were sold, Michael had made $7 Million from the 2 concerts. It would have been the perfect promotion but the next day 9 /11 attacks happened and obviously no one was talking about Michael Jackson.

Michael’s Invincible album gets released, it immediately goes to Number 1 but within a month it was out of Top 10. Invincible had sold 8 Million units, the sales numbers were disappointing for everyone and not enough to cover the $40 Million expenses. Mottola says according to Michael’s perception this was not acceptable and Sony had failed him. Michael would call Dave Glew and ask him to do anything to get the album back at number one.

Tommy Mottola : “When you are used to hearing “Yes, Michael, yes, Michael, yes, Michael, yes,” from everybody who is around you, it must be unbearable to hear, “No, Michael, we cannot and will not put millions more into the promotion of this album.” Sales had completely stalled, and that was after we had already spent a global marketing budget of more than $ 25 million.”

Mottola says Michael through his lawyers told them he would not sign a new deal with Sony, he would fulfill his remaining obligations and leave Sony and be a free agent.

Mottola says then something snapped and Michael launched an all out attack on Sony and Mottola personally calling him mean, racist and devilish.

Mottola says he called Al Sharpton immediately to ask him what was going on. Sharpton would apologize and tell that he had no idea that Michael would single Mottola out. It was supposed to be about inequality.

Tommy Mottola: “Michael was trying to turn this into an escape hatch. He was singling me out in order to get a release from Sony. But it actually backfired on him. Did he really think he would embarrass Sony enough to walk away from approximately $ 50 million in debts or from our joint venture in the Beatles catalog? Michael even tried to bring Mariah into it, knowing that she had just left Sony. But quickly a spokesperson for Mariah defended me and pointed out that Mariah was very unhappy that Michael had dragged her into it. Meanwhile, Reverend Al and Russell Simmons were quoted in newspapers speaking out on my behalf, as well as Sony’s.”

Tommy Mottola: “I remained quiet at the time and took the high road, which as chairman was the road to take, because it made no sense to respond to such outrageous and ridiculous accusations. But here’s the bottom line on this: we were in the business of selling music. Sony had spent more than $ 30 million in recording costs and another $ 25 million in marketing costs, and put the full force of the company in motion to promote that album. But despite all of that, people just didn’t want to buy it.”

This is insane!! $30 million to record an album?! nuts I can certainly understand Tommy/Sony's side.I know that Michael was a perfectionist,but his spending was out of control.This has always been one of MJ's problems: he kept trying to outsell Thriller.It was never going to happen.

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Reply #103 posted 06/19/17 3:47pm

214

SoulAlive said:

bboy87 said:

An MJ fan posted a rundown from Mottola's book where he mentions the Invincible fallout

This is insane!! $30 million to record an album?! nuts I can certainly understand Tommy/Sony's side.I know that Michael was a perfectionist,but his spending was out of control.This has always been one of MJ's problems: he kept trying to outsell Thriller.It was never going to happen.

I think the same, Thriller was as much a blessing as it was a curse.

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Reply #104 posted 06/20/17 3:20am

RODSERLING

214 said:

RODSERLING said:

i'm not afraid to say yes. Nothing entertaining in this song, bad melody, bad chorus, too long...Like I said, songs that could only work in the Usa rnb maket.

To quote Bob Dylan: " I don't believe you, you are a liar, play it fuckin loud".

I don't understand your quote, maybe you could say something yourself?

.

This is no coincidence that rnb low tempo songs such as BTFLS, HEAVEN CAN WAIT, CALL MY NAME, INSATIABLE, X's and Q's, Future Baby Mama, were only marketed in the US. They can only get zero airplay in Europe. To each one his culture.

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Reply #105 posted 06/20/17 3:35am

RODSERLING

SoulAlive said:

bboy87 said:

An MJ fan posted a rundown from Mottola's book where he mentions the Invincible fallout

This is insane!! $30 million to record an album?! nuts I can certainly understand Tommy/Sony's side.I know that Michael was a perfectionist,but his spending was out of control.This has always been one of MJ's problems: he kept trying to outsell Thriller.It was never going to happen.

MJ recorded in someting like 14 studios for Invincible during 4 years, with very expensive producers such as Jerkins, R Kelly, Teddy Riley, Wyclef Jean, that came with all their team.

.

Contrary to the recordings of BAD, DANGEROUS or HISTORY, MJ usually came late to record Invincible, or never showed up. He could reappear days later and used to offer many presents to the team (with Sony's money) to make him forgiven.

.

MJ always used to write his lyrics very late in the recording processus, sometimes minutes before. It always had been a problem for Sony, but in the end the result was beyond expectations. When in early 2001 MJ made Sony listen to 6 songs off the album, they were far from impressed and ordered him to finalise the album.

.

For Invincible, whereas everybody waited in the studio because he was supposed to record his lines, he had hard time to show up.

.

Since he had children, he was also often ill and couldn't record with his voice. The falsetto in BTFLS was recorded line by line because it was too much of an effort for him to sing this part in its entirety.

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Reply #106 posted 06/20/17 10:43am

mjscarousal

avatar

Free2BMe said:

RODSERLING said:

To sum it up, MJ refused to promote his own album, despite being given millions from Sony only to promote it, and 4 years to record it.

.

So, after 7 months of promotion, beginning with YRMW in august 2001, they gave up promoting it.

.

MJ accused them of sabotaging the promo of Invincible and being racist. End of MJ's ante-mortem carreer.

This is what Motolla/Sony was leaking to the media. They sabotaged Invincible and then made it seem as if it was Michael's fault. Insiders have said that everything Michael was saying about Motolla/Sony sabotaging the album was true. Really, it didn't take Einstein to ascertain what Motolla was doing.

I agree, I don't think SONY and Motolla did all they could do to promote Invincible. They failed to push certain singles and properly promote the album beyond the 30th anniversary special and YRMW video. Motolla is a snake that has screwed over many other artists. I take what he says with a grain of salt. I personally think MJ been wanted to leave Sony prior to Invincible being released.

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #107 posted 06/20/17 2:28pm

bboy87

avatar

RODSERLING said:

SoulAlive said:

This is insane!! $30 million to record an album?! nuts I can certainly understand Tommy/Sony's side.I know that Michael was a perfectionist,but his spending was out of control.This has always been one of MJ's problems: he kept trying to outsell Thriller.It was never going to happen.

MJ recorded in someting like 14 studios for Invincible during 4 years, with very expensive producers such as Jerkins, R Kelly, Teddy Riley, Wyclef Jean, that came with all their team.

.

Contrary to the recordings of BAD, DANGEROUS or HISTORY, MJ usually came late to record Invincible, or never showed up. He could reappear days later and used to offer many presents to the team (with Sony's money) to make him forgiven.

.

MJ always used to write his lyrics very late in the recording processus, sometimes minutes before. It always had been a problem for Sony, but in the end the result was beyond expectations. When in early 2001 MJ made Sony listen to 6 songs off the album, they were far from impressed and ordered him to finalise the album.

.

For Invincible, whereas everybody waited in the studio because he was supposed to record his lines, he had hard time to show up.

.

Since he had children, he was also often ill and couldn't record with his voice. The falsetto in BTFLS was recorded line by line because it was too much of an effort for him to sing this part in its entirety.

I remember reading that Michael played songs in 1999 for Mottolla and execs they WERE excited about the material. It was Michael who wasn't happy with the material.

Break of Dawn, Place With No Name, Blue Gangster, Hollywood Tonight and several other songs were in the can but he kept wanting to record more and more. If I remember correctly, Michael Prince said the direction of the project changed completely when Rodney came on board.

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #108 posted 06/20/17 2:50pm

214

bboy87 said:

RODSERLING said:

MJ recorded in someting like 14 studios for Invincible during 4 years, with very expensive producers such as Jerkins, R Kelly, Teddy Riley, Wyclef Jean, that came with all their team.

.

Contrary to the recordings of BAD, DANGEROUS or HISTORY, MJ usually came late to record Invincible, or never showed up. He could reappear days later and used to offer many presents to the team (with Sony's money) to make him forgiven.

.

MJ always used to write his lyrics very late in the recording processus, sometimes minutes before. It always had been a problem for Sony, but in the end the result was beyond expectations. When in early 2001 MJ made Sony listen to 6 songs off the album, they were far from impressed and ordered him to finalise the album.

.

For Invincible, whereas everybody waited in the studio because he was supposed to record his lines, he had hard time to show up.

.

Since he had children, he was also often ill and couldn't record with his voice. The falsetto in BTFLS was recorded line by line because it was too much of an effort for him to sing this part in its entirety.

I remember reading that Michael played songs in 1999 for Mottolla and execs they WERE excited about the material. It was Michael who wasn't happy with the material.

Break of Dawn, Place With No Name, Blue Gangster, Hollywood Tonight and several other songs were in the can but he kept wanting to record more and more. If I remember correctly, Michael Prince said the direction of the project changed completely when Rodney came on board.

You are right, actually the album that it was supposed to come out before Rodney came on board, was in my opinion much better.

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Reply #109 posted 06/20/17 2:51pm

214

bboy87 said:

RODSERLING said:

MJ recorded in someting like 14 studios for Invincible during 4 years, with very expensive producers such as Jerkins, R Kelly, Teddy Riley, Wyclef Jean, that came with all their team.

.

Contrary to the recordings of BAD, DANGEROUS or HISTORY, MJ usually came late to record Invincible, or never showed up. He could reappear days later and used to offer many presents to the team (with Sony's money) to make him forgiven.

.

MJ always used to write his lyrics very late in the recording processus, sometimes minutes before. It always had been a problem for Sony, but in the end the result was beyond expectations. When in early 2001 MJ made Sony listen to 6 songs off the album, they were far from impressed and ordered him to finalise the album.

.

For Invincible, whereas everybody waited in the studio because he was supposed to record his lines, he had hard time to show up.

.

Since he had children, he was also often ill and couldn't record with his voice. The falsetto in BTFLS was recorded line by line because it was too much of an effort for him to sing this part in its entirety.

I remember reading that Michael played songs in 1999 for Mottolla and execs they WERE excited about the material. It was Michael who wasn't happy with the material.

Break of Dawn, Place With No Name, Blue Gangster, Hollywood Tonight and several other songs were in the can but he kept wanting to record more and more. If I remember correctly, Michael Prince said the direction of the project changed completely when Rodney came on board.

You are right, actually the album that it was supposed to come out before Rodney came on board, was in my opinion much better.

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Reply #110 posted 07/10/17 11:24am

MickyDolenz

I hear that Thriller 3D which John Landis has been working on might be coming out soon.


It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor
Each generation has their music that they fall in love with, that makes it special to them ~ Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #111 posted 07/10/17 12:13pm

journalism16

I love this song as well.
Erin Smith
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Reply #112 posted 07/11/17 12:39pm

MickyDolenz

Michael Jackson's Estate and CBS Team for Animated Halloween Special
July 11, 2017 by Kate Stanhope The Hollywood Reporter
http://cdn2.thr.com/sites/default/files/2017/07/56038d2a41d75e5ee37f39a85a63f18f_-_embed_2017.jpg
The special will feature the music of the late pop star, as well as the voices of Christine Baranski and Alan Cumming.

CBS is looking to the music of Michael Jackson for its next project.

The network has teamed with the estate of the late pop star for a new animated special for which his extensive discography will serve as the soundtrack, it was announced Tuesday.

Titled Michael Jackson's Halloween, the hour-long telecast will follow millennials Vincent (MacGyver star Lucas Till) and Victoria (The Flash film's Kiersey Clemons), who meet “accidentally” on Halloween night and find themselves, along with Ichabod the dog, at a mysterious hotel located at 777 Jackson Street called This Place Hotel. Once inside, Vincent and Victoria go an unexpected, magical adventure of personal discovery, culminating in a spectacular dance finale featuring an animated Jackson.

CBS has tapped a variety of network stars past and present for voice roles, including Christine Baranski, Alan Cumming, Jim Parsons, Lucy Liu, George Eads and Brad Garrett.

Optimum Productions created the special and will produce, with animation production by Hammerhead. John Branca and John McClain, co-executors of the Estate of Michael Jackson, will exec produce. Daniel Chuba will serve as producer, and Mark A.Z. Dippé is attached to direct.

The special will air sometime this fall.

Since Jackson's death in 2009, his estate has continued to release new projects featuring the pop star, most notably the concert film This Is It, which was released shortly after his passing and showed his final days rehearsing for what was to be a new tour of the same name. More recent releases include Michael Jackson Live at Wembley July 16, 1988 in 2012 and a 25th anniversary special for his album, Bad, released the same year.

In recent years, Jackson's children have also stepped into the spotlight, with his daughter Paris making her acting debut on Fox's Star and appearing on the cover of Rolling Stone and his son, Prince Michael Jackson, serving as a correspondent for Entertainment Tonight.

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor
Each generation has their music that they fall in love with, that makes it special to them ~ Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #113 posted 07/12/17 2:10am

ilo

I prefer the original by Meatloaf.
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