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Reply #30 posted 01/07/19 7:59am

Bodhitheblackd
og

PennyPurple said:

June7 said:

Excellent post.

Nobody can, or has the right to, tell anyone for how long they should grieve. I'm coming up to a year in my own son's death (on the 12th), and I'm still beside myself. Talking ... talking ... about his death, him, remembrences, etc., does help.

What people don't understand, or don't think about, is the condition or public understanding of how death affects those immediately surrounding you, or how it actually is felt, or how you're perceived from everytone around you when you lose a loved one, it's expected - we live, we die - it's in the bible. It's life. It's death. Most of us are, and have accepted the fact that this is so. But, when the death is your son, your child, it brings on a whole new sideline of empathy, sympathy and stigma. Yes ... I said stigma.

People are strange.

I have actually lost friends due to his death. Not in a way that they think you suck and have publicly stated that they never want to speak to you again, or anything like that - it's subtle. It's just a disappearance. And, normally I wouldn't have even noticed it if it were someone I was just an aquaintance of. But, this one person is/was a very dear friend, who, when this happened, just ... stopped ... talking ... to ... me.

This one I noticed - and, I called him on it. I called him at home about after a month after Alex died. His wife answered and she seamed slightly surprised I called and was cordial and offered her condolences and stammered out some sympathetic wishes, but seamed kinda nervous. We chatted a bit and I asked to speak to her husband - my 'brother'. That's how close I thought we were.

He got on the phone and my first words to him were, "Are you okay? I mean, are we okay?! Because ... I haven't heard from you in awhile, and I wasn't sure if you heard about Alex (I knew he did, I just threw that in there to offer him an out) and, you know, I don't understand why you didn't reach out?"

He answered, "Oh ... yeah ... I heard about that - and, I am so sorry for your loss ... understand, that it's just too close to my sister's death, I honestly couldn't offer you anything comfort wise, it's all too difficult for me right now".

And, right there, I suddenly wasn't upset with him anymore - just a little hurt that he couldn't have disclosed that to me instead of letting me think we were not as close as I thought we were. This goes back to my first paragraph - and, I don't have the right to tell him how long, or how to grieve.

He apologized, and I know he felt bad, but, so did I for not knowing why he didn't contact me. But, again, I wasn't expected to know.

I wrote a song about Alex and our family (his two siblings and his mother - my ex and myself) called "Easy". After the song talks about our family growing up together, splitting up, etc., it goes into what happened 'in present day' and how I'm dealing/not dealing with this. The last verse, which I believe needs to be brought out more, talked about more, made aware of more is this:

---

"So, please don't stop being my friend

You can stop me on the street again

Say, "How nice it is to see you, man"

Take me for a beer, and then

That might make it easier

Instead of trying to avoid these things - that's not okay

That's not the way

And if you do, that makes it easy

Well, a little bit easy"

---

My point was not to shame him (or those who didn't, or couldn't, talk to me). But, to remind people that being silent hurts even more. The parents who lost a child are shunned. Nobody wants to be reminded in this life that this happens. It's too tragic. So, they instead, subconciously take care of it by not dealing with it at all. And they just stop talking to you. I understand ... I do. But, that's not the way.

This is one of the reasons I believe that his death, Prince's, should not be held silent just to appease those who can't deal with it, or think it's too long after, or etc., etc., etc. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Nobody should put their own beliefs, or restrictions, upon somebody else. Nobody should bitch at another person because their discomfort in dealing with something should be the same yours. You should be able to grieve for as long as you need to, publicly or privately. The choice in posting this thread is that simple for me. And anyone who has discomfort with this discussion should not click on the thread - the topic or subject matter, is clearly listed in the title. If it is not for you, simply skip this thread. No one will miss you or your reason for doing so.

Thank you. And thanks to all of you who have offered your condolences. I can't state how much those little words, or that moment of sympathy means to me.

Tomás - Easy

Wonderful words June.

It is odd how friends just walk away in times of need. My parents had best friends that they would go on vacation with and do everything together, when my Step Dad passed, my Mom never heard from them again. eek

I'm sorry you are going thru such a heartbreaking time. (hugs)

PENNY!!! yes

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Reply #31 posted 01/07/19 8:09am

onlyforaminute

With all due respect to a parent that's grieving. Though this is not the same thing. I know while you want to talk about your son and express your love for him. You don't want to listen to everybody's opinion about what they think lead to your son's accident and what kind of person they thought he was or how they didn't like how he lead his life with no filter or no care on how you might be feeling either. You would expect some courtesy. So while people dont have to come here, some of that "speculation" spills out other places. And the same thing can be said for every single thread where people use no filter and express every single thought that pops in their head.
"I’m not new to this, I’m true to this."

Gladys Knight
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Reply #32 posted 01/07/19 8:31am

Bodhitheblackd
og

onlyforaminute said:

With all due respect to a parent that's grieving. Though this is not the same thing. I know while you want to talk about your son and express your love for him. You don't want to listen to everybody's opinion about what they think lead to your son's accident and what kind of person they thought he was or how they didn't like how he lead his life with no filter or no care on how you might be feeling either. You would expect some courtesy. So while people dont have to come here, some of that "speculation" spills out other places. And the same thing can be said for every single thread where people use no filter and express every single thought that pops in their head.

That is the beauty, horror, reality of cyber communication throughout the wired-up world, not just on Prince.Org.

People can be, express, feel whatever they are compelled to share with anyone and everyone (sometimes at their own peril) but, nevertheless, such participation can be liberating, authentic and creative.

To paraphrase June7's comments...those who feel unease about this rampant 'sharing'...should perhaps avoid fan sites, chat rooms, comments sections on news stories, social media, etc.

It's a personal choice to 'go there.'

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Reply #33 posted 01/07/19 9:13am

onlyforaminute

Bodhitheblackdog said:



onlyforaminute said:


With all due respect to a parent that's grieving. Though this is not the same thing. I know while you want to talk about your son and express your love for him. You don't want to listen to everybody's opinion about what they think lead to your son's accident and what kind of person they thought he was or how they didn't like how he lead his life with no filter or no care on how you might be feeling either. You would expect some courtesy. So while people dont have to come here, some of that "speculation" spills out other places. And the same thing can be said for every single thread where people use no filter and express every single thought that pops in their head.

That is the beauty, horror, reality of cyber communication throughout the wired-up world, not just on Prince.Org.



People can be, express, feel whatever they are compelled to share with anyone and everyone (sometimes at their own peril) but, nevertheless, such participation can be liberating, authentic and creative.



To paraphrase June7's comments...those who feel unease about this rampant 'sharing'...should perhaps avoid fan sites, chat rooms, comments sections on news stories, social media, etc.



It's a personal choice to 'go there.'



But that exact same reasoning can be applied to everything. Yet tha rules on this board is there is no rights to free speech here. Everything has limits. Truth. Not everyone knew or adored his son. I doubt he'd want those people all up in his house expressing all their feelings and then telling members of his family they can go to another room where they don't have to hear it.
[Edited 1/7/19 9:27am]
"I’m not new to this, I’m true to this."

Gladys Knight
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Reply #34 posted 01/07/19 9:32am

Bodhitheblackd
og

onlyforaminute said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

That is the beauty, horror, reality of cyber communication throughout the wired-up world, not just on Prince.Org.

People can be, express, feel whatever they are compelled to share with anyone and everyone (sometimes at their own peril) but, nevertheless, such participation can be liberating, authentic and creative.

To paraphrase June7's comments...those who feel unease about this rampant 'sharing'...should perhaps avoid fan sites, chat rooms, comments sections on news stories, social media, etc.

It's a personal choice to 'go there.'

But that exact same reasoning can be applied to everything. Yet tha rules on this board is there is no rights to free speech here. Everything has limits. Truth. Not everyone knew or adored his son. I doubt he'd want those people all up in his house expressing all their feelings and then telling members of his family they can go to another room where they don't have to hear it. [Edited 1/7/19 9:27am]

Excellent points but the Org. 'rules' have about as much ultimate control over how Prince is/was perceived or remembered as did Prince himself who courted attention, speculation and gossip from the inception of his career with his clothing, promiscuity and carefully cultivated 'mysteriousness.'

It's hard to put that genie back in the bottle once your wishes for fame, success and adoration have been granted.

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Reply #35 posted 01/07/19 9:42am

minnesoundlvr

June7 said:

SpamelaAnusorn said:

I don't trust everybody around Prince I feel like he had too many enemas and people that can get some thing from him.

One can never have too many enemas. Keeps shit real. eek

confused

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Reply #36 posted 01/07/19 9:51am

onlyforaminute

The same exact stuff over and over again. If that's the energy desired around here, then that's the kind of energy desired around here. But let's not dress it up like something caring and empathetic. Its salacious gossip.
"I’m not new to this, I’m true to this."

Gladys Knight
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Reply #37 posted 01/07/19 10:21am

rednblue

sonshine said:

rednblue said:



Yes...the discrepancy in how things are judged is amazing. People constantly do suboptimal stuff regarding their own (and sometimes other people's) health all the time. I know I do, even now, in what should be my older and wiser days. And people doing really suboptimal, and outright reckless stuff, happens all the time.

There is SO much condemnation for struggling with a substance, vs. almost anything else. It's over-the-top irrational.

No doubt the following is an odd-sounding comparison, but looking at things side by side sometimes brings things out for me. So...just like there are people who struggle not to use a substance, there are people who struggle to be faithful to a partner. There are those who want to "cheat," and even those in open relationships, but I'm talking about the large number of people who want to be faithful yet can't control themselves and fall off the wagon.

It floors me that people falling off the faithfulness wagon sometimes get props and admiring "you're the player" type feedback. Yet what happens to people struggling with control over cigarettes, alcohol, crack, meth, opiates, etc.? These people get one of the ultimate stigmas directed their way. For a medical condition!

Add to that how plenty of people with addiction are hard working and contributing much, and plenty are attempting to self medicate other serious conditions, some of which are also stigmatized. It's just incredible.

clapping Sad, but true. Thank you for saying this better than I could. I only wish more people were capable of such understanding and compassion. I've had people in my life that I have loved deeply, who were very worthy of the love they received. But the stigma is real and in actuality is probably even worse than you would imagine. It drives the secrecy, and the feelings of unworthiness that makes recovery so difficult. [Edited 1/6/19 13:05pm]


Thank you for your kind words! The inability to fully know what it's like in someone else's shoes (though it's hugely important/helpful to try to imagine) gives pause. The enduring strength of some of these forces, and the destruction that their power drives, is part of why I think there's such a long way to go.


I hope that here, and also (as our younger family members would say) "IRL," some things have come your way...that is words/gestures/actions that manage to ease, just a tiny bit, the pain of your recent losses, or that make that pain just a tiny bit easier to bear.

[Edited 1/7/19 18:17pm]

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Reply #38 posted 01/07/19 10:39am

rednblue

onlyforaminute said:

The same exact stuff over and over again. If that's the energy desired around here, then that's the kind of energy desired around here. But let's not dress it up like something caring and empathetic. Its salacious gossip.


I may be completely off base re: what is on your mind, but perhaps romantic interests of famous people also find themselves the targets of a completely irrational level of condemnation.

I'm not saying that lovers/muses/girlfriends/etc. weren't ever naive, or that Prince himself wasn't naive, about how some of these relationships might play out. But the level of careless talk/claims/condemnation, especially vs. appreciation of what these people brought to one another and to the music, is over the top.

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Reply #39 posted 01/07/19 11:02am

rednblue

delete

[Edited 1/7/19 11:03am]

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Reply #40 posted 01/07/19 11:06am

onlyforaminute

rednblue said:



onlyforaminute said:


The same exact stuff over and over again. If that's the energy desired around here, then that's the kind of energy desired around here. But let's not dress it up like something caring and empathetic. Its salacious gossip.


I may be completely off base re: what is on your mind, but perhaps romantic interests of famous people also find themselves the targets of a completely irrational level of condemnation.

I'm not saying that lovers/muses/girlfriends/etc. weren't ever naive, or that Prince himself wasn't naive, about how some of these relationships might play out. But the level of careless talk/claims/condemnation, especially vs. appreciation of what these people brought to one another and to the music, is over the top.




No I don't like being snowed. I've been on this planet long enough to know what I'm looking at. We've been through several of these threads we know exactly what gets said in them. There hasn't been a drop of new information to explore so it doesn't take a genius to know that the exact same things that were said in the previous threadz are the exact same things that will be said in this one and any others. SSDD. Many folks on the org ARE still grieving but not everybody is here for compassionate reasons regardless of what's said, Actions trump words. Just stop with the bs, is all I'm saying. You wanna gossip and tell fan fiction.
"I’m not new to this, I’m true to this."

Gladys Knight
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Reply #41 posted 01/07/19 11:10am

rednblue

June7 said:

AnnaStesia10 said:

Thank u June7 for opening up this topic again for anyone on this forum still interested in talking about or reading about it. I for one am interested because for me, I am still not over his death and am in a way haunted by it. It is not a haunt that keeps me up at night or contributes to an unhealthy obsession. A haunt in a sense that I feel, still after the death investigation is over, we all are still not getting the full story. You will have the people here go on and on about leave this alone he deserves his privacy. Let the man rest. But I say since Prince was a beloved public figure who touched the souls of so many and died by the the hands of a major pain med and I am sorry in such an odd way and found in an elevator in his musical oasis, that I do feel his fans and supporters do deserve to know the truth. The truth could bring full closure from any grief and also help people struggling with pain management and possible addiction to get the help they need. This all still does not make any fuckin' sense to me.

Excellent post.

Nobody can, or has the right to, tell anyone for how long they should grieve. I'm coming up to a year in my own son's death (on the 12th), and I'm still beside myself. Talking ... talking ... about his death, him, remembrences, etc., does help.

What people don't understand, or don't think about, is the condition or public understanding of how death affects those immediately surrounding you, or how it actually is felt, or how you're perceived from everytone around you when you lose a loved one, it's expected - we live, we die - it's in the bible. It's life. It's death. Most of us are, and have accepted the fact that this is so. But, when the death is your son, your child, it brings on a whole new sideline of empathy, sympathy and stigma. Yes ... I said stigma.

People are strange.

I have actually lost friends due to his death. Not in a way that they think you suck and have publicly stated that they never want to speak to you again, or anything like that - it's subtle. It's just a disappearance. And, normally I wouldn't have even noticed it if it were someone I was just an aquaintance of. But, this one person is/was a very dear friend, who, when this happened, just ... stopped ... talking ... to ... me.

This one I noticed - and, I called him on it. I called him at home about after a month after Alex died. His wife answered and she seamed slightly surprised I called and was cordial and offered her condolences and stammered out some sympathetic wishes, but seamed kinda nervous. We chatted a bit and I asked to speak to her husband - my 'brother'. That's how close I thought we were.

He got on the phone and my first words to him were, "Are you okay? I mean, are we okay?! Because ... I haven't heard from you in awhile, and I wasn't sure if you heard about Alex (I knew he did, I just threw that in there to offer him an out) and, you know, I don't understand why you didn't reach out?"

He answered, "Oh ... yeah ... I heard about that - and, I am so sorry for your loss ... understand, that it's just too close to my sister's death, I honestly couldn't offer you anything comfort wise, it's all too difficult for me right now".

And, right there, I suddenly wasn't upset with him anymore - just a little hurt that he couldn't have disclosed that to me instead of letting me think we were not as close as I thought we were. This goes back to my first paragraph - and, I don't have the right to tell him how long, or how to grieve.

He apologized, and I know he felt bad, but, so did I for not knowing why he didn't contact me. But, again, I wasn't expected to know.

I wrote a song about Alex and our family (his two siblings and his mother - my ex and myself) called "Easy". After the song talks about our family growing up together, splitting up, etc., it goes into what happened 'in present day' and how I'm dealing/not dealing with this. The last verse, which I believe needs to be brought out more, talked about more, made aware of more is this:

---

"So, please don't stop being my friend

You can stop me on the street again

Say, "How nice it is to see you, man"

Take me for a beer, and then

That might make it easier

Instead of trying to avoid these things - that's not okay

That's not the way

And if you do, that makes it easy

Well, a little bit easy"

---

My point was not to shame him (or those who didn't, or couldn't, talk to me). But, to remind people that being silent hurts even more. The parents who lost a child are shunned. Nobody wants to be reminded in this life that this happens. It's too tragic. So, they instead, subconciously take care of it by not dealing with it at all. And they just stop talking to you. I understand ... I do. But, that's not the way.

This is one of the reasons I believe that his death, Prince's, should not be held silent just to appease those who can't deal with it, or think it's too long after, or etc., etc., etc. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Nobody should put their own beliefs, or restrictions, upon somebody else. Nobody should bitch at another person because their discomfort in dealing with something should be the same yours. You should be able to grieve for as long as you need to, publicly or privately. The choice in posting this thread is that simple for me. And anyone who has discomfort with this discussion should not click on the thread - the topic or subject matter, is clearly listed in the title. If it is not for you, simply skip this thread. No one will miss you or your reason for doing so.

Thank you. And thanks to all of you who have offered your condolences. I can't state how much those little words, or that moment of sympathy means to me.

Tomás - Easy


I second the "excellent post" review!

And thanks to both of you for the touching, disturbing, and thought-provoking observations.

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Reply #42 posted 01/07/19 11:32am

rednblue

June7 said:

SpamelaAnusorn said:

I don't trust everybody around Prince I feel like he had too many enemas and people that can get some thing from him.

One can never have too many enemas. Keeps shit real. eek


June7, you bestowed the "excellent post" award. Now I will bestow the "excellent comeback" award.

SpamelaAnusorn, you've met your match.

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Reply #43 posted 01/07/19 11:54am

rednblue

PennyPurple said:

June7 said:

Excellent post.

Nobody can, or has the right to, tell anyone for how long they should grieve. I'm coming up to a year in my own son's death (on the 12th), and I'm still beside myself. Talking ... talking ... about his death, him, remembrences, etc., does help.

What people don't understand, or don't think about, is the condition or public understanding of how death affects those immediately surrounding you, or how it actually is felt, or how you're perceived from everytone around you when you lose a loved one, it's expected - we live, we die - it's in the bible. It's life. It's death. Most of us are, and have accepted the fact that this is so. But, when the death is your son, your child, it brings on a whole new sideline of empathy, sympathy and stigma. Yes ... I said stigma.

People are strange.

I have actually lost friends due to his death. Not in a way that they think you suck and have publicly stated that they never want to speak to you again, or anything like that - it's subtle. It's just a disappearance. And, normally I wouldn't have even noticed it if it were someone I was just an aquaintance of. But, this one person is/was a very dear friend, who, when this happened, just ... stopped ... talking ... to ... me.

This one I noticed - and, I called him on it. I called him at home about after a month after Alex died. His wife answered and she seamed slightly surprised I called and was cordial and offered her condolences and stammered out some sympathetic wishes, but seamed kinda nervous. We chatted a bit and I asked to speak to her husband - my 'brother'. That's how close I thought we were.

He got on the phone and my first words to him were, "Are you okay? I mean, are we okay?! Because ... I haven't heard from you in awhile, and I wasn't sure if you heard about Alex (I knew he did, I just threw that in there to offer him an out) and, you know, I don't understand why you didn't reach out?"

He answered, "Oh ... yeah ... I heard about that - and, I am so sorry for your loss ... understand, that it's just too close to my sister's death, I honestly couldn't offer you anything comfort wise, it's all too difficult for me right now".

And, right there, I suddenly wasn't upset with him anymore - just a little hurt that he couldn't have disclosed that to me instead of letting me think we were not as close as I thought we were. This goes back to my first paragraph - and, I don't have the right to tell him how long, or how to grieve.

He apologized, and I know he felt bad, but, so did I for not knowing why he didn't contact me. But, again, I wasn't expected to know.

I wrote a song about Alex and our family (his two siblings and his mother - my ex and myself) called "Easy". After the song talks about our family growing up together, splitting up, etc., it goes into what happened 'in present day' and how I'm dealing/not dealing with this. The last verse, which I believe needs to be brought out more, talked about more, made aware of more is this:

---

"So, please don't stop being my friend

You can stop me on the street again

Say, "How nice it is to see you, man"

Take me for a beer, and then

That might make it easier

Instead of trying to avoid these things - that's not okay

That's not the way

And if you do, that makes it easy

Well, a little bit easy"

---

My point was not to shame him (or those who didn't, or couldn't, talk to me). But, to remind people that being silent hurts even more. The parents who lost a child are shunned. Nobody wants to be reminded in this life that this happens. It's too tragic. So, they instead, subconciously take care of it by not dealing with it at all. And they just stop talking to you. I understand ... I do. But, that's not the way.

This is one of the reasons I believe that his death, Prince's, should not be held silent just to appease those who can't deal with it, or think it's too long after, or etc., etc., etc. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Nobody should put their own beliefs, or restrictions, upon somebody else. Nobody should bitch at another person because their discomfort in dealing with something should be the same yours. You should be able to grieve for as long as you need to, publicly or privately. The choice in posting this thread is that simple for me. And anyone who has discomfort with this discussion should not click on the thread - the topic or subject matter, is clearly listed in the title. If it is not for you, simply skip this thread. No one will miss you or your reason for doing so.

Thank you. And thanks to all of you who have offered your condolences. I can't state how much those little words, or that moment of sympathy means to me.

Tomás - Easy

Wonderful words June.

It is odd how friends just walk away in times of need. My parents had best friends that they would go on vacation with and do everything together, when my Step Dad passed, my Mom never heard from them again. eek

I'm sorry you are going thru such a heartbreaking time. (hugs)


So sad to hear of the turning away that both of your families experienced.

Can't begin to imagine what it's like to have grief met with that. Reaching out can mean an awful lot, even in ordinary circumstances.

Speaking of infinitely easier circumstances, I asked a question on the Org a while back. I said I'd try to shut up and just listen to any who might care to respond. That's just what I did.

Reflecting on all this, I want to thank those who responded. To leec1, Pennypurple, peggyon, others...your words were very much appreciated!

[Edited 1/7/19 12:05pm]

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Reply #44 posted 01/07/19 12:11pm

peggyon

I feel that folks are approaching this thread more carefully this time, which is good.

My thoughts

Prince was a very complex individual. Though he had a private side, he also struck me as somewhat needing attention as well. Alan Leeds said he needed approbation. He wanted it both ways. And, as Bodhi mentioned, the genie is out of that bottle.

I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic schools with exceptionally mean nuns where there was alot of shame, abuse, secrets and authoritarianism. (This was my experience only). I think, partly as a result of that upbringing (my parents were liberal, thank God),I am less tolerant of secrets and shame.

There is a large helping of both in Prince's death narrative and I feel the authoritarianism as well...It is basically saying, don't ask questions, accept the 'party line', 'that' did not happen, etc. etc.. Excuse me? As soon as things get too close for comfort, there are the 'designated' orgers (I can name them), who burst out of the woodwork, issuing ultimatums, 'outrage' and threaten to lock the thread.They are predictable and their behavior is questionable to me.

I feel strongly that there are forces who want to manage the narrative as there are 'things' to suppress. After all, lots of money is at stake.

Unfortunately for them, people are naturally wired to return to situations that don't make sense. So, buckle up for a long ride!

All this speculation would cease in minutes if there was honesty and sincerity from those "in the know"

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Reply #45 posted 01/07/19 12:22pm

rednblue

onlyforaminute said:

rednblue said:


I may be completely off base re: what is on your mind, but perhaps romantic interests of famous people also find themselves the targets of a completely irrational level of condemnation.

I'm not saying that lovers/muses/girlfriends/etc. weren't ever naive, or that Prince himself wasn't naive, about how some of these relationships might play out. But the level of careless talk/claims/condemnation, especially vs. appreciation of what these people brought to one another and to the music, is over the top.

No I don't like being snowed. I've been on this planet long enough to know what I'm looking at. We've been through several of these threads we know exactly what gets said in them. There hasn't been a drop of new information to explore so it doesn't take a genius to know that the exact same things that were said in the previous threadz are the exact same things that will be said in this one and any others. SSDD. Many folks on the org ARE still grieving but not everybody is here for compassionate reasons regardless of what's said, Actions trump words. Just stop with the bs, is all I'm saying. You wanna gossip and tell fan fiction.


Some find that the way information has been concealed, at times by Prince himself, may well have proved lethal. Some of the concealing in these situations is undoubtedly due to thoughts of condemnation, by oneself and others. Is it nothing but negative to wish for a world where these things are no longer so unspeakable, and lives might be saved as a result?

Would you approve of an Org where discussion of medical issues and/or artistic temperament was outlawed, but all other topics remained?

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Reply #46 posted 01/07/19 12:45pm

onlyforaminute

rednblue said:



onlyforaminute said:


rednblue said:



I may be completely off base re: what is on your mind, but perhaps romantic interests of famous people also find themselves the targets of a completely irrational level of condemnation.

I'm not saying that lovers/muses/girlfriends/etc. weren't ever naive, or that Prince himself wasn't naive, about how some of these relationships might play out. But the level of careless talk/claims/condemnation, especially vs. appreciation of what these people brought to one another and to the music, is over the top.



No I don't like being snowed. I've been on this planet long enough to know what I'm looking at. We've been through several of these threads we know exactly what gets said in them. There hasn't been a drop of new information to explore so it doesn't take a genius to know that the exact same things that were said in the previous threadz are the exact same things that will be said in this one and any others. SSDD. Many folks on the org ARE still grieving but not everybody is here for compassionate reasons regardless of what's said, Actions trump words. Just stop with the bs, is all I'm saying. You wanna gossip and tell fan fiction.


Some find that the way information has been concealed, at times by Prince himself, may well have proved lethal. Some of the concealing in these situations is undoubtedly due to thoughts of condemnation, by oneself and others. Is it nothing but negative to wish for a world where these things are no longer so unspeakable, and lives might be saved as a result?

Would you approve of an Org where discussion of medical issues and/or artistic temperament was outlawed, but all other topics remained?




You did notice this is the 13th, actually the 14th thread on the exact same thing. All facts available have been discussed, nobody here knows a thing about his health or any facts about his medical history so what is being discussed beyond somebody's fantasy and the power struggle that happens when folks compete over which story gets to make it's way into the narrative. It would be different if there was some concrete info but the reality is, there is very little. And the little there is has been twisted in so many exhausting ways that even those facts get repeated incorrectly.
"I’m not new to this, I’m true to this."

Gladys Knight
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Reply #47 posted 01/07/19 1:00pm

peggyon

onlyforaminute said:

rednblue said:


Some find that the way information has been concealed, at times by Prince himself, may well have proved lethal. Some of the concealing in these situations is undoubtedly due to thoughts of condemnation, by oneself and others. Is it nothing but negative to wish for a world where these things are no longer so unspeakable, and lives might be saved as a result?

Would you approve of an Org where discussion of medical issues and/or artistic temperament was outlawed, but all other topics remained?

You did notice this is the 13th, actually the 14th thread on the exact same thing. All facts available have been discussed, nobody here knows a thing about his health or any facts about his medical history so what is being discussed beyond somebody's fantasy and the power struggle that happens when folks compete over which story gets to make it's way into the narrative. It would be different if there was some concrete info but the reality is, there is very little. And the little there is has been twisted in so many exhausting ways that even those facts get repeated incorrectly.

Why, why, why or why do you insist on commenting on a thread you find so 'inappropriate'?

Everyone has noticed it. Even June7 has asked that folks who find this thread difficult, steer clear.

Please find another thread more to your liking.

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Reply #48 posted 01/07/19 1:10pm

AnnaStesia10

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Onlyforaminute - I get what you are saying but maybe some of us want and need to still discuss this. Who cares if this is the 13th thread. There are several threads that are discussing topics from what do you think of 20Ten to was Vanity the love of his life to whatever. And who cares some posters wish to still discuss this. And it is not a veiled attempt to gossip about Prince's medical history or whatever. The exchange of personal stories, thoughts, theories and emotions are beneficial and thought-provoking. If it is not your cup of tea, then why do you come on here to try to change our minds or make us feel like really, you wanna keep talking about this. It is strange to me. Don't post then if you are not getting it. I do not post on threads that are not my thing. I may read them but I respect the fellow posters right to their view points and ideas because that is how I want to be treated.
"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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Reply #49 posted 01/07/19 1:13pm

Bodhitheblackd
og

peggyon said:

onlyforaminute said:

rednblue said: You did notice this is the 13th, actually the 14th thread on the exact same thing. All facts available have been discussed, nobody here knows a thing about his health or any facts about his medical history so what is being discussed beyond somebody's fantasy and the power struggle that happens when folks compete over which story gets to make it's way into the narrative. It would be different if there was some concrete info but the reality is, there is very little. And the little there is has been twisted in so many exhausting ways that even those facts get repeated incorrectly.

Why, why, why or why do you insist on commenting on a thread you find so 'inappropriate'?

Everyone has noticed it. Even June7 has asked that folks who find this thread difficult, steer clear.

Please find another thread more to your liking.

Thanks, peggyon, and AnnaStesia10, my thoughts exactly. Even if no more information about Prince's death were ever to come to light (unlikely IMO), reflections on the manner of his death can only be helpful to Org. members who are struggling with addiction or the addictions of loved ones. I don't think this is a bad thing and is certainly more compassionate, humane and of more lasting value than the endless debates on the Org. as to which Prince album cover was the best or whether physical sales of vinal or CD's are much more valuable than streaming numbers. I would never consider going on those threads and bashing those who are interested in that topic. Why the desperate attempts to stifle conversation over the manner and causes of his death???

[Edited 1/7/19 13:23pm]

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Reply #50 posted 01/07/19 1:52pm

onlyforaminute

I haven't bashed one person so stop playing victim. Nobody has to respond to my post anymore than they think I don't have the right to make them. I expressed my opinion there are a variety of folks around and these threads aren't compassionate to them so cut the bs. We've seen the content already, 13 times. Stop putting glitter on a turd calling it jewelry.
"I’m not new to this, I’m true to this."

Gladys Knight
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Reply #51 posted 01/07/19 2:04pm

June7

Moderator

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moderator

onlyforaminute said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

That is the beauty, horror, reality of cyber communication throughout the wired-up world, not just on Prince.Org.

People can be, express, feel whatever they are compelled to share with anyone and everyone (sometimes at their own peril) but, nevertheless, such participation can be liberating, authentic and creative.

To paraphrase June7's comments...those who feel unease about this rampant 'sharing'...should perhaps avoid fan sites, chat rooms, comments sections on news stories, social media, etc.

It's a personal choice to 'go there.'

But that exact same reasoning can be applied to everything. Yet tha rules on this board is there is no rights to free speech here. Everything has limits. Truth. Not everyone knew or adored his son. I doubt he'd want those people all up in his house expressing all their feelings and then telling members of his family they can go to another room where they don't have to hear it. [Edited 1/7/19 9:27am]

I think what you're attempting to do is very transparent. The reality is that I've put my son's death in the spotlight as soon as it happened, because of my postion here for almost twenty years, and because it happened, and I am an admin on this site and the FB page. Nobody wants to hear any shit talk about their child, dead or alive.

The thought that you perceive this to be okay on the org, because it's on the org, and this is 'another room' is ridiculous. No shit talk is okay, and though we try, we don't catch it all, and so many posting on this site have created horrifically offensive threads that have delved into every aspect of his life - from his women to his penis. With your logic in the above post, we should probably shut the site down, out of respect.

Again, and this can't be said enough. If this thread offends you DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND CERTAINLY, DON'T POST ON IT. I may have to start offering a three day vacation from here to those who insist on doing so anyway - and you're right again. Free speech is not guaranteed here at all. We control it. i control it. And that power is utiized.

[PRINCE 4EVER!]

[June7, "ModGod"]
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Reply #52 posted 01/07/19 2:32pm

onlyforaminute

June7 said:



onlyforaminute said:


Bodhitheblackdog said:


That is the beauty, horror, reality of cyber communication throughout the wired-up world, not just on Prince.Org.



People can be, express, feel whatever they are compelled to share with anyone and everyone (sometimes at their own peril) but, nevertheless, such participation can be liberating, authentic and creative.



To paraphrase June7's comments...those who feel unease about this rampant 'sharing'...should perhaps avoid fan sites, chat rooms, comments sections on news stories, social media, etc.



It's a personal choice to 'go there.'



But that exact same reasoning can be applied to everything. Yet tha rules on this board is there is no rights to free speech here. Everything has limits. Truth. Not everyone knew or adored his son. I doubt he'd want those people all up in his house expressing all their feelings and then telling members of his family they can go to another room where they don't have to hear it. [Edited 1/7/19 9:27am]



I think what you're attempting to do is very transparent. The reality is that I've put my son's death in the spotlight as soon as it happened, because of my postion here for almost twenty years, and because it happened, and I am an admin on this site and the FB page. Nobody wants to hear any shit talk about their child, dead or alive.



The thought that you perceive this to be okay on the org, because it's on the org, and this is 'another room' is ridiculous. No shit talk is okay, and though we try, we don't catch it all, and so many posting on this site have created horrifically offensive threads that have delved into every aspect of his life - from his women to his penis. With your logic in the above post, we should probably shut the site down, out of respect.



Again, and this can't be said enough. If this thread offends you DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND CERTAINLY, DON'T POST ON IT. I may have to start offering a three day vacation from here to those who insist on doing so anyway - and you're right again. Free speech is not guaranteed here at all. We control it. i control it. And that power is utiized.



I can appreciate that. I'm just noting one group of people's feelings keep overriding others, and the others are being told to go sit in a corner somewhere. I've been here from before the very 1st investigation thread so I'm not oblivious to what gets talked about in them and there has been some mean spirited painful things that show up in them. Unlike other threads these are about his death which makes them unique
and these particular ones are coming off as sanctioned and blessed by moderators because you all keep saying you can't catch everything. That is probably the largest complaints about these thread is where they go when the facts run out and since there aren't many facts to talk about then all off-road every single one goes. And other grieving fans just have to put up with it and say nothing.
"I’m not new to this, I’m true to this."

Gladys Knight
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Reply #53 posted 01/07/19 2:37pm

June7

Moderator

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onlyforaminute said:

June7 said:

I think what you're attempting to do is very transparent. The reality is that I've put my son's death in the spotlight as soon as it happened, because of my postion here for almost twenty years, and because it happened, and I am an admin on this site and the FB page. Nobody wants to hear any shit talk about their child, dead or alive.

The thought that you perceive this to be okay on the org, because it's on the org, and this is 'another room' is ridiculous. No shit talk is okay, and though we try, we don't catch it all, and so many posting on this site have created horrifically offensive threads that have delved into every aspect of his life - from his women to his penis. With your logic in the above post, we should probably shut the site down, out of respect.

Again, and this can't be said enough. If this thread offends you DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND CERTAINLY, DON'T POST ON IT. I may have to start offering a three day vacation from here to those who insist on doing so anyway - and you're right again. Free speech is not guaranteed here at all. We control it. i control it. And that power is utiized.

I can appreciate that. I'm just noting one group of people's feelings keep overriding others, and the others are being told to go sit in a corner somewhere. I've been here from before the very 1st investigation thread so I'm not oblivious to what gets talked about in them and there has been some mean spirited painful things that show up in them. Unlike other threads these are about his death which makes them unique and these particular ones are coming off as sanctioned and blessed by moderators because you all keep saying you can't catch everything. That is probably the largest complaints about these thread is where they go when the facts run out and since there aren't many facts to talk about then all off-road every single one goes. And other grieving fans just have to put up with it and say nothing.

I get what you're saying. I do. The truth is, most Mods wanted these threads done away with. I saw what happened. It is my belief that if you are stifling conversation, any reasonable conversation, you are stifling the one purpose people come here for - to discuss Prince. And, sadly, his death is now part of that discussion. And where else can you go if you want to discuss his death, if not aat a Prince fansite? Doesn't that make sense?

This thread won't be like the others. I'm going to be all over it, which is what I told the other mods when I decided to let it continue.

[PRINCE 4EVER!]

[June7, "ModGod"]
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Reply #54 posted 01/07/19 3:02pm

onlyforaminute

June7 said:



onlyforaminute said:


June7 said:




I think what you're attempting to do is very transparent. The reality is that I've put my son's death in the spotlight as soon as it happened, because of my postion here for almost twenty years, and because it happened, and I am an admin on this site and the FB page. Nobody wants to hear any shit talk about their child, dead or alive.



The thought that you perceive this to be okay on the org, because it's on the org, and this is 'another room' is ridiculous. No shit talk is okay, and though we try, we don't catch it all, and so many posting on this site have created horrifically offensive threads that have delved into every aspect of his life - from his women to his penis. With your logic in the above post, we should probably shut the site down, out of respect.



Again, and this can't be said enough. If this thread offends you DON'T CLICK ON IT, AND CERTAINLY, DON'T POST ON IT. I may have to start offering a three day vacation from here to those who insist on doing so anyway - and you're right again. Free speech is not guaranteed here at all. We control it. i control it. And that power is utiized.



I can appreciate that. I'm just noting one group of people's feelings keep overriding others, and the others are being told to go sit in a corner somewhere. I've been here from before the very 1st investigation thread so I'm not oblivious to what gets talked about in them and there has been some mean spirited painful things that show up in them. Unlike other threads these are about his death which makes them unique and these particular ones are coming off as sanctioned and blessed by moderators because you all keep saying you can't catch everything. That is probably the largest complaints about these thread is where they go when the facts run out and since there aren't many facts to talk about then all off-road every single one goes. And other grieving fans just have to put up with it and say nothing.


I get what you're saying. I do. The truth is, most Mods wanted these threads done away with. I saw what happened. It is my belief that if you are stifling conversation, any reasonable conversation, you are stifling the one purpose people come here for - to discuss Prince. And, sadly, his death is now part of that discussion. And where else can you go if you want to discuss his death, if not aat a Prince fansite? Doesn't that make sense?



This thread won't be like the others. I'm going to be all over it, which is what I told the other mods when I decided to let it continue.




Well cool. Then there should be no problems.
"I’m not new to this, I’m true to this."

Gladys Knight
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Reply #55 posted 01/07/19 3:30pm

AnnaStesia10

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Right on June7. And well said, this is a Prince fan site and the sad truth is he did die and in a shocking way. And thank you again for opening up this convo it is needed. We discuss everything else and this one main recent event can be thought of as off limits in some peoples eyes is unbelivable. Death is part of life. Funky part of life but true.

I wanted to address your 2nd post on this thread about the loss of Alex. Again, my heart goes out to you and your family and how this has affectrd some of your frienships. You hurt my heart when you mentioned stigma associated with your childs death. It is so sad but can be true. Friends and fam should be there when any type of tragedy occurs and especially in a death of a family member.

I cannot fathom the loss of a child and god bless you for your strength and courage in speaking about this. It is not easy. I have had experiecned loss of family and friends due to a stigma topic such as addiction and I find the same avoidance and "I dont know what to say" vibe still to this day. As you had said before, we all have our ways to deal with grief it is a personal journey. I know people that like to talk about it and people that like to tuck the feelings deep down inside and lock them up. To each is own. I feel you have to look at it like what is the healtiest path to recovery and to move on as best you can for you. For me, it is talking about it and to know that I am not alone with my thoughts and feelings. For my best friend, he likes to keep things inside and in a sense bury them. To each is own.

I appreciate you talking about it and if you feel inclined to speak some more about Alex, I will listen to you and share some stories of my own. I feel all of us on this site have alot of similarities when it comes to love and loss and even in areas of addiction and loss. We are all very much connected even if just via our bad-ass taste for music and our affinity for Prince.

June7 thank you again and to all of you posters out there for your thoughts, investigative work, theories and personal stories. It is not in vain, not gossip and it helps me and others feel we are not alone in this crazy world.

*Edited for typo*
[Edited 1/7/19 15:32pm]
"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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Reply #56 posted 01/07/19 3:46pm

PennyPurple

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Why has Carver County taken down the investigative documents?

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Reply #57 posted 01/07/19 4:39pm

AnnaStesia10

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I was wondering that too. They have been off the site for a while. I even tried to reach out to the contact via email and was given basically a non-answer and was told to contact some other official. Those doc's are public records and should be available. My only thought is you now have to formally request them to view like a FOIA request now. I am not sure how it works for the state of Minnesota.

I got really busy when I received that email and knew it was a b.s. answer and didnt have time to play the game. I can reach out again and see what is up. If anyone else has any info on this, let us know if you dont mind.

*edited for typos*
[Edited 1/7/19 16:41pm]
"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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Reply #58 posted 01/07/19 5:29pm

peggyon

AnnaStesia10 said:

I was wondering that too. They have been off the site for a while. I even tried to reach out to the contact via email and was given basically a non-answer and was told to contact some other official. Those doc's are public records and should be available. My only thought is you now have to formally request them to view like a FOIA request now. I am not sure how it works for the state of Minnesota. I got really busy when I received that email and knew it was a b.s. answer and didnt have time to play the game. I can reach out again and see what is up. If anyone else has any info on this, let us know if you dont mind. *edited for typos* [Edited 1/7/19 16:41pm]

Aren't they accessible through the Death Investigation threads?

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Reply #59 posted 01/07/19 5:34pm

AnnaStesia10

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They could be if posters saved the files on their own computers and then attached. I havent gone back to those threads plus some were taken down due to heated convo's from some posters.
"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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