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Thread started 12/25/18 1:27pm

feeluupp

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Prince, MJ, FRANK DILEO

So just got the book Michael Jackson All The Songs, and the excerpt for She Drives Me Wild the author said several of the lines in the song was geared toward Prince as he declined the Bad duet and he hired Frank Dileo for the Diamonds & Pearls promotion which MJ wasn't too fond of. So the author claims, making a refrence about "she's got the look" a jab from the U Got The Look Song, and the line "satin lace and a paisley cut top." Implying Paisley linked to Prince... I know ridiculous but just read that today.

[Edited 12/25/18 17:50pm]

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Reply #1 posted 12/25/18 5:17pm

sro100

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feeluupp said:

So just got the book Michael Jackson All The Songs, and the excerpt for She Drives Me Wild the author said several of the lines in the song was geared toward Prince as he declined the Bad duet and he hired Frank Dileo for the Diamonds & Pearls promotion which MJ wasn't too fond of. So the author claims, making a refrence about "she's got the look" a jab from the U Got The Look Song, and the line "satin lace and a paisley cut top." Implying Paisley linked to Prince... I know ridiculous but just read that today.

Why not? Prince clearly made veiled reference to the Undisputed King of Pop, Rock and Soul.

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Reply #2 posted 12/25/18 5:34pm

feeluupp

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sro100 said:

feeluupp said:

So just got the book Michael Jackson All The Songs, and the excerpt for She Drives Me Wild the author said several of the lines in the song was geared toward Prince as he declined the Bad duet and he hired Frank Dileo for the Diamonds & Pearls promotion which MJ wasn't too fond of. So the author claims, making a refrence about "she's got the look" a jab from the U Got The Look Song, and the line "satin lace and a paisley cut top." Implying Paisley linked to Prince... I know ridiculous but just read that today.

Why not? Prince clearly made veiled reference to the Undisputed King of Pop, Rock and Soul.

It's ridiculous to think She Drives Me Wild is a song taking a jab at Prince...

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Reply #3 posted 12/25/18 5:48pm

feeluupp

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What was interesting though was to read that MJ had an issue of Frank Dileo being Prince's manager to promote the Diamonds & Pearls album, especially as it was direct competition to Dangerous. In the end Diamonds & Pearls became Prince's second biggest selling album in his catalouge with sales now surpassing 7 million.

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Reply #4 posted 12/25/18 5:53pm

feeluupp

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... And doing some more research on that topic... I just found an article stating that MJ fired Frank back in late 1989, so the author of that book was just making things up. MJ didn't have any resentment for Frank managing Prince's D&P album as Frank was fired by MJ 2 years before he even worked with Prince. rolleyes

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Reply #5 posted 12/25/18 5:56pm

ThatWhiteDude

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feeluupp said:

... And doing some more research on that topic... I just found an article stating that MJ fired Frank back in late 1989, so the author of that book was just making things up. MJ didn't have any resentment for Frank managing Prince's D&P album as Frank was fired by MJ 2 years before he even worked with Prince. rolleyes

Some people just love to stirthepot

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #6 posted 12/26/18 1:52am

Free2BMe

ThatWhiteDude said:



feeluupp said:


... And doing some more research on that topic... I just found an article stating that MJ fired Frank back in late 1989, so the author of that book was just making things up. MJ didn't have any resentment for Frank managing Prince's D&P album as Frank was fired by MJ 2 years before he even worked with Prince. rolleyes



Some people just love to stirthepot



Yep!! neutral
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Reply #7 posted 12/26/18 3:25am

RODSERLING

When MJ fired Dileo in 1989, the last two singles weren t release in the USA. It tells how much payola were put into the BAD promotion,to sell "only" 6 millions album s in the USA at the time.
.
It was more successful outside the US without Dileo input.
.
Dileo was fired by MJ with a simple note because he opted to release Moonwalker directly on video and not in theaters, where it could have earned dozens of millions dollars.
.
When She Drives me wild was recorded, MJ couldn't know the whole D&P project.
.
In the contrary, I think MJ laughed his ass off, when he saw Prince released the lead single, Get Off, 4 months before the release of the album, and Insatiable as the second single for rnb stations.
.
I m not sure that Dileo really could chose what single release, and the timing. I think it was mostly Prince who chose the promotion, and Dileo probably had hard time to promote it.
.
[Edited 12/26/18 3:26am]
[Edited 12/26/18 3:36am]
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Reply #8 posted 12/26/18 9:32am

feeluupp

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RODSERLING said:

When MJ fired Dileo in 1989, the last two singles weren t release in the USA. It tells how much payola were put into the BAD promotion,to sell "only" 6 millions album s in the USA at the time. . It was more successful outside the US without Dileo input. . Dileo was fired by MJ with a simple note because he opted to release Moonwalker directly on video and not in theaters, where it could have earned dozens of millions dollars. . When She Drives me wild was recorded, MJ couldn't know the whole D&P project. . In the contrary, I think MJ laughed his ass off, when he saw Prince released the lead single, Get Off, 4 months before the release of the album, and Insatiable as the second single for rnb stations. . I m not sure that Dileo really could chose what single release, and the timing. I think it was mostly Prince who chose the promotion, and Dileo probably had hard time to promote it. . [Edited 12/26/18 3:26am] [Edited 12/26/18 3:36am]

Believe me if Prince was in charge of PROMOTION, he'd end up doing just Paisley Park video shoots with artists in his inner circle, oh wait he did that for the Love Symbol album and it flopped....

Dileo was in charge of the promotion, MTV MUSIC AWARDS, SUPERBOWL, SPECIAL OLYMPICS, ARSENIO HALL, it was a planned calculated MAINSTREAM promotion for the MASSES... That's why D&P is the second biggest selling Prince album.

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Reply #9 posted 12/26/18 10:04am

RODSERLING

feeluupp said:



RODSERLING said:


When MJ fired Dileo in 1989, the last two singles weren t release in the USA. It tells how much payola were put into the BAD promotion,to sell "only" 6 millions album s in the USA at the time. . It was more successful outside the US without Dileo input. . Dileo was fired by MJ with a simple note because he opted to release Moonwalker directly on video and not in theaters, where it could have earned dozens of millions dollars. . When She Drives me wild was recorded, MJ couldn't know the whole D&P project. . In the contrary, I think MJ laughed his ass off, when he saw Prince released the lead single, Get Off, 4 months before the release of the album, and Insatiable as the second single for rnb stations. . I m not sure that Dileo really could chose what single release, and the timing. I think it was mostly Prince who chose the promotion, and Dileo probably had hard time to promote it. . [Edited 12/26/18 3:26am] [Edited 12/26/18 3:36am]



Believe me if Prince was in charge of PROMOTION, he'd end up doing just Paisley Park video shoots with artists in his inner circle, oh wait he did that for the Love Symbol album and it flopped....



Dileo was in charge of the promotion, MTV MUSIC AWARDS, SUPERBOWL, SPECIAL OLYMPICS, ARSENIO HALL, it was a planned calculated MAINSTREAM promotion for the MASSES... That's why D&P is the second biggest selling Prince album.



For the American masses only.
And D&P is a rare instance where Prince sold more outside the USA. And that's without Dileo input.
Mostly because outside the USA the audience hadn't to bear the promotion-killer Insatiable, and because the singles were released at a more reasonable pacing.

.
Moreover, what I wanted to point out is that Dileo had hard time to make Prince stay on focus,and the promotion was a mess in the USA nevertheless.
Prince performed Get off in MTV, when the album wasn't even released ! What a waste.
.
Then, each time a new single was released, Prince made a pleasure to perform other songs (Pop Daddy, Willing and able, Live4Love) whenever he could use this exposure to promote his current singles.
I think it didn't pay off, especially at the time when he was on heavy rotation, it was a rather bad timing.
It went too fast for the masses, and it killed the efforts Dileo put it into it.
.
Outside the USA, the promotion was more conventional and it paid off, whereas rap/rnb genre clearly wasn't as popular as it was back then in the US.
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Reply #10 posted 12/26/18 10:30am

NorthC

The D&P tour was as much a promotion of the upcoming prince album as it was of the D&P album. Sexy MF was part of the set from the beginning and was released as a single during the tour- I'm sure that helped sales. And Damn U was added to the set and songs from the upcoming album were sometimes played on the PA before the shows started. And lyrics were recited on the video screens before the shows. Actually a pretty good idea: fans come to hear the D&P album and get to know the new album. And it keeps the show interesting for Prince himself, for whom D&P was already old news anyway.
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Reply #11 posted 12/26/18 10:40am

RODSERLING

NorthC said:

The D&P tour was as much a promotion of the upcoming prince album as it was of the D&P album. Sexy MF was part of the set from the beginning and was released as a single during the tour- I'm sure that helped sales. And Damn U was added to the set and songs from the upcoming album were sometimes played on the PA before the shows started. And lyrics were recited on the video screens before the shows. Actually a pretty good idea: fans come to hear the D&P album and get to know the new album. And it keeps the show interesting for Prince himself, for whom D&P was already old news anyway.


Considering Lovesymbol sold more than twice time less D&P, and that the expectations were of the 5 millions mark, well, this strategy clearly didn't t pay off at all.
.
Sexy MF cannibalized what was left of D&P promotion, and in the Same time when the single was at its peak, LOVE SYMBOL wasn t in stores to be bought !
.
Conclusion : Sexy MF was of no use for both albums.
.

Prince should have waited until next November to release that Sexy MF and then just weeks after the new album.
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Reply #12 posted 12/26/18 10:58am

renfield

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The singles rollout on 'Diamonds & Pearls' was arguably his best outside of 'Purple Rain'. "Insatiable" was only promoted to R&B stations, since "Cream" was only promoted to pop (after "Gett Off" had created a ton of hype). This strategy was successful with "Cream" topping the pop charts and "Insatiable" rising to #3 R&B. And both songs were big enough crossovers to chart on both pop AND R&B each. It kept his mainstream audience happy while not alienating his urban core, with 4th single "Diamonds & Pearls" being a massive top 3 hit at both formats. I wish he had approached every album that way.

[Edited 12/26/18 11:01am]

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Reply #13 posted 12/26/18 11:15am

NorthC

RODSERLING said:

NorthC said:

The D&P tour was as much a promotion of the upcoming prince album as it was of the D&P album. Sexy MF was part of the set from the beginning and was released as a single during the tour- I'm sure that helped sales. And Damn U was added to the set and songs from the upcoming album were sometimes played on the PA before the shows started. And lyrics were recited on the video screens before the shows. Actually a pretty good idea: fans come to hear the D&P album and get to know the new album. And it keeps the show interesting for Prince himself, for whom D&P was already old news anyway.


Considering Lovesymbol sold more than twice time less D&P, and that the expectations were of the 5 millions mark, well, this strategy clearly didn't t pay off at all.
.
Sexy MF cannibalized what was left of D&P promotion, and in the Same time when the single was at its peak, LOVE SYMBOL wasn t in stores to be bought !
.
Conclusion : Sexy MF was of no use for both albums.
.

Prince should have waited until next November to release that Sexy MF and then just weeks after the new album.

Sexy MF was a big hit in the summer of 92, also because of the controversy caused by the use of the F word, so in the short term, it payed off. But you're right, the excitement died down pretty quickly. But looking back on it, promoting the new album while touring behind the old one seemed like a good idea at the time. Prince just wasn't the kind of guy to stay interested in one project for a long time.
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Reply #14 posted 12/26/18 11:39am

SoulAlive

renfield said:

The singles rollout on 'Diamonds & Pearls' was arguably his best outside of 'Purple Rain'. "Insatiable" was only promoted to R&B stations, since "Cream" was only promoted to pop (after "Gett Off" had created a ton of hype). This strategy was successful with "Cream" topping the pop charts and "Insatiable" rising to #3 R&B. And both songs were big enough crossovers to chart on both pop AND R&B each. It kept his mainstream audience happy while not alienating his urban core, with 4th single "Diamonds & Pearls" being a massive top 3 hit at both formats. I wish he had approached every album that way.

I agree.The singles from D&P were well-chosen,which is rare for a Prince album.

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Reply #15 posted 12/26/18 11:53am

feeluupp

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All debates aside... No one is argueing that D&P was the strongest album, no not at all... It was however the most strategically promoted because of Frank. Numbers do not lie, there is a reason why D&P is his second biggest selling album, even though it was far inferior to his 80's masterpieces...

Tbh without Frank, this would've just been a normal million plus seller, but no way would it have sold over 7 million without Frank. If Prince didn't switch projects so quickly I would even say this had potential to sell over 10 million, if he would've included a North American tour and an even more extensive world tour...

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Reply #16 posted 12/26/18 12:01pm

feeluupp

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To be fair I just want to compare the D&P sales to his most recent albums, not including BATMAN because it was attached to the movie and that practically was the promotion for the album...

Lovesexy sales:

  • World – 3,390,000

But if you look at Graffiti Bridge sales:

  • World – 2,550,000

Love Symbol sales:

  • World – 3,020,000

his average at the time was around 3 million copies world wide, which was very low compared to his contemperaries, who always had a strategical and mainstream promotion plan...

When you look at the D&P sales:

  • World – 7,100,000

compared to his most recent albums before D&P and his album after D&P before all the feud with WB and name change... D&P eclipses his average sales by a lot. This is all due to Frank, not to take any credit away from Prince, but if Prince just stuck to his normal promotion strategy, not really promoting it in a mainstream way, D&P without Frank would've been another 3 million seller world wide, and nothing more.

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Reply #17 posted 12/26/18 12:04pm

NorthC

feeluupp said:

All debates aside... No one is argueing that D&P was the strongest album, no not at all... It was however the most strategically promoted because of Frank. Numbers do not lie, there is a reason why D&P is his second biggest selling album, even though it was far inferior to his 80's masterpieces...




Tbh without Frank, this would've just been a normal million plus seller, but no way would it have sold over 7 million without Frank. If Prince didn't switch projects so quickly I would even say this had potential to sell over 10 million, if he would've included a North American tour and an even more extensive world tour...


Japan... Australia (for the first time ever)... Europe (for the umpteenth time)... How much more extensive do you want it? There just wasn't much demand for Prince tickets in the US, as the Act 1 tour of the next year showed. More money to be made overseas.
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Reply #18 posted 12/26/18 3:07pm

RODSERLING

feeluupp said:

All debates aside... No one is argueing that D&P was the strongest album, no not at all... It was however the most strategically promoted because of Frank. Numbers do not lie, there is a reason why D&P is his second biggest selling album, even though it was far inferior to his 80's masterpieces...




Tbh without Frank, this would've just been a normal million plus seller, but no way would it have sold over 7 million without Frank. If Prince didn't switch projects so quickly I would even say this had potential to sell over 10 million, if he would've included a North American tour and an even more extensive world tour...



"Frank" has nothing to do with the promotion outside the USA, where it sold more.
.
But yeah, you understood the idea : it could, it should have sold better
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Reply #19 posted 12/26/18 3:39pm

RODSERLING

NorthC said:

RODSERLING said:



Considering Lovesymbol sold more than twice time less D&P, and that the expectations were of the 5 millions mark, well, this strategy clearly didn't t pay off at all.
.
Sexy MF cannibalized what was left of D&P promotion, and in the Same time when the single was at its peak, LOVE SYMBOL wasn t in stores to be bought !
.
Conclusion : Sexy MF was of no use for both albums.
.

Prince should have waited until next November to release that Sexy MF and then just weeks after the new album.

Sexy MF was a big hit in the summer of 92, also because of the controversy caused by the use of the F word, so in the short term, it payed off. But you're right, the excitement died down pretty quickly. But looking back on it, promoting the new album while touring behind the old one seemed like a good idea at the time. Prince just wasn't the kind of guy to stay interested in one project for a long time.


Yeah, you understood the idea : Sexy MF could have been a big hit and ALSO sell LOVESYMBOL and ALSO not fucking with D&P so early...
7 months after the release of D&P! And 4 months before LOVESYMBOL ! The timing is insane and commercial suicide.
.
I don t think the "failure" of SYMBOL was due to 7 not being released as the lead single. That s BS, it was a flop outside the USA.
.
Sexy MF and MNIP were good singles, but their timing were terrible.
.
In an ideal world, D&P would have been released in SeptemBer 1991.
A fifth worldwide single would have been released in the summer of 1992, such as Live 4Love.
.
Then, in October 1992, The release of MNIP as the lead, intriguing single, after the surexposition of D&P.
Then, in November the SYMBOL album, then, in December Sexy MF, then in march 1993 "7", then something like Continental or God Created Woman for the summer of 1993...
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Reply #20 posted 12/26/18 3:59pm

42Kristen

rolleyes

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Reply #21 posted 12/27/18 1:06am

SoulAlive

I think that,after the GB fiasco,Prince knew that he had to come back strong and show the world that he is still relevent.D&P was exactly what his career needed at that point: a strong,commercial album filled with radio-friendly hit singles.Hiring Frank Dileo to help out with the promotion was one of his smartest career moves.

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Reply #22 posted 12/27/18 2:22pm

PeteSilas

feeluupp said:

So just got the book Michael Jackson All The Songs, and the excerpt for She Drives Me Wild the author said several of the lines in the song was geared toward Prince as he declined the Bad duet and he hired Frank Dileo for the Diamonds & Pearls promotion which MJ wasn't too fond of. So the author claims, making a refrence about "she's got the look" a jab from the U Got The Look Song, and the line "satin lace and a paisley cut top." Implying Paisley linked to Prince... I know ridiculous but just read that today.

[Edited 12/25/18 17:50pm]

he'd already fired dileo by that point anyways.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #23 posted 12/28/18 2:48pm

jcurley

What I find more amazing is that when you have access to genius like Prince one would even be conscious of profunctionary pop music like MJ let alone put the man in discussion with Prince....again!
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Reply #24 posted 12/28/18 7:06pm

bboy87

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I know the authors so I'll ask them because this doesn't sound accurate at all. It could be a case of mistranslation neutral

[Edited 12/28/18 19:08pm]

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #25 posted 12/28/18 11:10pm

bboy87

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They said the lyric could be seen as a nod to P. Nothing more

The translation may be a bit off as well. They're both from France with the publishers handling the adapting it to English

[Edited 12/29/18 2:20am]

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #26 posted 12/29/18 1:26am

thedance

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maybe tiresome to u?

MJ, he had a so incredible amount of "Hit-singles", however 3 or, maybe 4 excellent albums only in his career, (solo that is, calm donwn MJ fans we are NOT counting before Off The Wall*)

Prince well, he had at least 9 or 10 excellent albums (some even double albums)

(and, yes P had a lot of *related albums, as well)


in case MJ was oil then P was water..

Ok great but they do not mix well.... wink cool cool

I love the music 1979 to 1988 from MJ + some off Dangerous and the socalled new hits from HIStory..

Still MJ is such "a small" artist if u compare him, he can't compare to my God, which will always be... Prince.

Maybe if MJ was a McDonalds resturant.. mainstream,


then Prince was far more exclusive, a three star "michelin", a more exclusive restarant, much more sophisticated,



Imho, of course you are entitled to have your opnion.. cool biggrin wink

any misspelled words, be easy, I am european.. non-english.. peace & bw.....

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #27 posted 12/29/18 1:33am

bboy87

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thedance said:

maybe tiresome to u?

MJ, he had a so incredible amount of "Hit-singles", however 3 or, maybe 4 excellent albums only in his career, (solo that is, calm donwn MJ fans we are NOT counting before Off The Wall*)

Prince well, he had at least 9 or 10 excellent albums (some even double albums)

(and, yes P had a lot of *related albums, as well)


in case MJ was oil then P was water..

Ok great but they do not mix well.... wink cool cool

I love the music 1979 to 1988 from MJ + some off Dangerous and the socalled new hits from HIStory..

Still MJ is such "a small" artist if u compare him, he can't compare to my God, which will always be... Prince.

Maybe if MJ was a McDonalds resturant.. mainstream,


then Prince was far more exclusive, a three star "michelin", a more exclusive restarant, much more sophisticated,



Imho, of course you are entitled to have your opnion.. cool biggrin wink

any misspelled words, be easy, I am european.. non-english.. peace & bw.....

[Snipped - don't bait, why single this one out? Warning. - June7]

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #28 posted 12/29/18 2:17am

NouveauDance

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I don't understand the snobbery towards MJ, especially in a thread about an album that contains Jughead and Daddy Pop.

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Reply #29 posted 12/29/18 9:00am

jcurley

NouveauDance said:

I don't understand the snobbery towards MJ, especially in a thread about an album that contains Jughead and Daddy Pop.



Well its perfectly consistent. Prince fans in the main-including me- slag off D&P. I've only ever been conscious of MJ because of that 80's comparison nonsense. Even Thriller passed me by coz I was too young. However it wouod have been too juvenile for me anyway. MJ sales were at the time were very much targeted to the dusposable income of children. Prince brcame a superstar on a 15 certificate movie etc. For a 12 yr old that was far more intriguing.

MJ fans have never allowed me to enjoy his music at the level its meant to be enjoyed due to this ludicrous comparison. It makes you scrutinise it too much and it wasn't made for such analysis. It's pure pop and very targeted as a product. So I end up dismissing it instead of letting it wash over me as intended. Simply because of that comparison which is desperately unfair to Prince's mysical capabilities.
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