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Thread started 01/09/18 3:51am

Djhouse46

Purple Rain concert bluray

Does anyone know why there was never a concert Blu-ray in the new 3 CD DVD expanded?
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Reply #1 posted 01/09/18 4:41am

EmmaMcG

It wouldn't be worth the extra investment it would cost to upgrade the concert footage to HD.
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Reply #2 posted 01/09/18 8:03am

djThunderfunk

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EmmaMcG said:

It wouldn't be worth the extra investment it would cost to upgrade the concert footage to HD.


Yeah that... And, considering the source material, HD afficianados would complain about the picture quality anyway.

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Reply #3 posted 01/09/18 8:37am

TrivialPursuit

djThunderfunk said:

EmmaMcG said:

It wouldn't be worth the extra investment it would cost to upgrade the concert footage to HD.


Yeah that... And, considering the source material, HD afficianados would complain about the picture quality anyway.


That's the truth. I don't buy that every old thing in the world deserves, or would benefit from, an HD upgrade nor a bluray release.

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Reply #4 posted 01/09/18 8:43am

gritsen

You really can't upscale video the way you can almost infinitely upscale film. Just minor cleanups and color corrections are possible. I'm sure they did the best they could with the Syracuse DVD.

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Reply #5 posted 01/09/18 9:00am

dance4me3121

gritsen said:

You really can't upscale video the way you can almost infinitely upscale film. Just minor cleanups and color corrections are possible. I'm sure they did the best they could with the Syracuse DVD.


Weird how the VHS and bootleg DVD of the Syracuse concert looks a lot better than the one Warner Brothers released
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Reply #6 posted 01/09/18 3:33pm

EmmaMcG

dance4me3121 said:

gritsen said:

You really can't upscale video the way you can almost infinitely upscale film. Just minor cleanups and color corrections are possible. I'm sure they did the best they could with the Syracuse DVD.


Weird how the VHS and bootleg DVD of the Syracuse concert looks a lot better than the one Warner Brothers released


I never seen the VHS or the bootleg but I liked the officially released version. There are some things where a spruced up looking video quality is preferable but for things like this, I personally prefer the aged, 80's look. I wouldn't want a HD version of the DVD we got. It would lose its charm
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Reply #7 posted 01/09/18 4:06pm

dance4me3121

EmmaMcG said:

dance4me3121 said:


Weird how the VHS and bootleg DVD of the Syracuse concert looks a lot better than the one Warner Brothers released


I never seen the VHS or the bootleg but I liked the officially released version. There are some things where a spruced up looking video quality is preferable but for things like this, I personally prefer the aged, 80's look. I wouldn't want a HD version of the DVD we got. It would lose its charm

I guess I see what you mean. At least we have the Canadian sign of the times DVD.its. Perfect in both picture and sound. One thing Warner brothers did get right on the purple rain concert is they improved the sound.i actually purchased the deluxe edition a total of 9 times.got one for myself and rest for friends & family
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Reply #8 posted 01/09/18 8:12pm

Strive

...

The concert that was included with Purple Rain Deluxe was shot on tape. There's no way to make a HD version of it. The resolution it's at is the maximum resolution it can be.

Concerts shot on film can be scanned in at a higher resolution. The maximum resolution depends on the stock of film (for example, you start to hit a wall with 16mm film at 4K) but nearly everything that was shot on film can benefit from a HD transfer as long as it was properly taken care of. And even things like The Godfather, which was literally falling apart due to them making so many copies from the master negative for various theatrical re-releases, can have magic done to it in terms of restoration.

As far as I know, there's only 2 Prince shows that were shot on film. Met Center (March 7, 1982) which was shot on 5 16mm cameras for The Second Coming (Prince bought all this footage back from the director in 2007) and Sign O' The Times at Paisley for the movie. That's it.

Every concert of Prince's before the introduction of consumer HD digital camcorders will be SD. (And even then, who knows if Prince actually upgraded his people to the latest technology and whether they kept the original files instead of burning them to a DVD for him to watch)

To use a non-Prince example, this is a problem with The Twilight Zone. It was shot on film for nearly the entire series but there were a few episodes where CBS shot on tape to try to cut costs. Those episodes look terrible compared to the remastered from film episodes because there's nothing they can do to improve them. It is what it is.
[Edited 1/9/18 20:14pm]
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Reply #9 posted 01/10/18 1:13am

EmmaMcG

dance4me3121 said:

EmmaMcG said:



I never seen the VHS or the bootleg but I liked the officially released version. There are some things where a spruced up looking video quality is preferable but for things like this, I personally prefer the aged, 80's look. I wouldn't want a HD version of the DVD we got. It would lose its charm

I guess I see what you mean. At least we have the Canadian sign of the times DVD.its. Perfect in both picture and sound. One thing Warner brothers did get right on the purple rain concert is they improved the sound.i actually purchased the deluxe edition a total of 9 times.got one for myself and rest for friends & family


That's incredibly generous of you to do that for your family and friends. When my sister wanted to borrow the CD for her car I was like "get your own" LOL.
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Reply #10 posted 01/10/18 7:16am

databank

avatar

EmmaMcG said:

dance4me3121 said:
I guess I see what you mean. At least we have the Canadian sign of the times DVD.its. Perfect in both picture and sound. One thing Warner brothers did get right on the purple rain concert is they improved the sound.i actually purchased the deluxe edition a total of 9 times.got one for myself and rest for friends & family
That's incredibly generous of you to do that for your family and friends. When my sister wanted to borrow the CD for her car I was like "get your own" LOL.

That's incredibly generous of him to do that for Warner, who released a shitty product with a glitch on Erotic City among a zillion other problems nod

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Reply #11 posted 01/10/18 7:26am

EmmaMcG

databank said:



EmmaMcG said:


dance4me3121 said:
I guess I see what you mean. At least we have the Canadian sign of the times DVD.its. Perfect in both picture and sound. One thing Warner brothers did get right on the purple rain concert is they improved the sound.i actually purchased the deluxe edition a total of 9 times.got one for myself and rest for friends & family

That's incredibly generous of you to do that for your family and friends. When my sister wanted to borrow the CD for her car I was like "get your own" LOL.

That's incredibly generous of him to do that for Warner, who released a shitty product with a glitch on Erotic City among a zillion other problems nod



Yeah, because that little imperfection ruined the whole set for me. I can't even listen to Wonderful Ass or We Can Fuck without thinking about that quarter of a second glitch on Erotic City. razz
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Reply #12 posted 01/10/18 7:54am

databank

avatar

EmmaMcG said:

databank said:

That's incredibly generous of him to do that for Warner, who released a shitty product with a glitch on Erotic City among a zillion other problems nod

Yeah, because that little imperfection ruined the whole set for me. I can't even listen to Wonderful Ass or We Can Fuck without thinking about that quarter of a second glitch on Erotic City. razz

That's not the point. There were waaaaaaaay too many problems with that set, the EC glitch was just the worst one as well as the most obvious.

But you know, if WB had issued an apology/explanation for half those issues, and maybe offered a free lossless download of Erotic City without the glitch, I would be cool. Everyone can make mistakes.

But since they've been giving us the silent treatment, I say don't buy PR Deluxe, just get it for free and enjoy the music.

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Reply #13 posted 01/10/18 8:04am

ufoclub

avatar

dance4me3121 said:

EmmaMcG said:



I never seen the VHS or the bootleg but I liked the officially released version. There are some things where a spruced up looking video quality is preferable but for things like this, I personally prefer the aged, 80's look. I wouldn't want a HD version of the DVD we got. It would lose its charm

I guess I see what you mean. At least we have the Canadian sign of the times DVD.its. Perfect in both picture and sound. One thing Warner brothers did get right on the purple rain concert is they improved the sound.i actually purchased the deluxe edition a total of 9 times.got one for myself and rest for friends & family


SOTT is available on blu-ray which is better visual quality than the Canadian DVD. But the same sound.
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Reply #14 posted 01/10/18 9:30am

dance4me3121

databank said:



EmmaMcG said:


dance4me3121 said:
I guess I see what you mean. At least we have the Canadian sign of the times DVD.its. Perfect in both picture and sound. One thing Warner brothers did get right on the purple rain concert is they improved the sound.i actually purchased the deluxe edition a total of 9 times.got one for myself and rest for friends & family

That's incredibly generous of you to do that for your family and friends. When my sister wanted to borrow the CD for her car I was like "get your own" LOL.

That's incredibly generous of him to do that for Warner, who released a shitty product with a glitch on Erotic City among a zillion other problems nod



It's just a small glitch but honestly I hardly ever listen to the extended songs disc cuz I've had the extended version of "erotic city" and the others on cd for about 12 years now.
[Edited 1/10/18 9:31am]
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Reply #15 posted 01/10/18 12:29pm

master

ufoclub said:

dance4me3121 said:


I guess I see what you mean. At least we have the Canadian sign of the times DVD.its. Perfect in both picture and sound. One thing Warner brothers did get right on the purple rain concert is they improved the sound.i actually purchased the deluxe edition a total of 9 times.got one for myself and rest for friends & family


SOTT is available on blu-ray which is better visual quality than the Canadian DVD. But the same sound.

I saw sign o the time bluray on sign o the times deluxe silverline boot and the quality was fantastic, supposedly alot better than Jap bluray one but not seen either Jap or Canadian myself .. I felt if Warner's were going to put Syracuse on instead of first avenue qualiry needed to be alot better.Really shocked out how bad Warner's have got . They are a proper label so expect better. They needed to go to more effort on purple rain deluxe.. They really needs to put effort in with remastering and song choices if going to continue remastering . They do not seem bothered at all as not much money in it and not prepared to go to much effort unfortunately
[Edited 1/10/18 12:40pm]
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Reply #16 posted 01/10/18 2:01pm

ufoclub

avatar

master said:

ufoclub said:
SOTT is available on blu-ray which is better visual quality than the Canadian DVD. But the same sound.
I saw sign o the time bluray on sign o the times deluxe silverline boot and the quality was fantastic, supposedly alot better than Jap bluray one but not seen either Jap or Canadian myself .. I felt if Warner's were going to put Syracuse on instead of first avenue qualiry needed to be alot better.Really shocked out how bad Warner's have got . They are a proper label so expect better. They needed to go to more effort on purple rain deluxe.. They really needs to put effort in with remastering and song choices if going to continue remastering . They do not seem bothered at all as not much money in it and not prepared to go to much effort unfortunately [Edited 1/10/18 12:40pm]

Oh no, the Japanese and the Australian blu-ray are perfectly professionally done. I'm a videophile too! I bet the bootleg is just a straight rip that has been compressed more (so when lights are flashing it might look worse).

The Syracuse concert was a live broadcast with tube video cameras. That is how it looked... there is no getting better unless you de-interlace it and try to adjust colors, but those cameras sucked.

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Reply #17 posted 01/10/18 3:32pm

master

ufoclub said:



master said:


ufoclub said:
SOTT is available on blu-ray which is better visual quality than the Canadian DVD. But the same sound.

I saw sign o the time bluray on sign o the times deluxe silverline boot and the quality was fantastic, supposedly alot better than Jap bluray one but not seen either Jap or Canadian myself .. I felt if Warner's were going to put Syracuse on instead of first avenue qualiry needed to be alot better.Really shocked out how bad Warner's have got . They are a proper label so expect better. They needed to go to more effort on purple rain deluxe.. They really needs to put effort in with remastering and song choices if going to continue remastering . They do not seem bothered at all as not much money in it and not prepared to go to much effort unfortunately [Edited 1/10/18 12:40pm]


Oh no, the Japanese and the Australian blu-ray are perfectly professionally done. I'm a videophile too! I bet the bootleg is just a straight rip that has been compressed more (so when lights are flashing it might look worse).

The Syracuse concert was a live broadcast with tube video cameras. That is how it looked... there is no getting better unless you de-interlace it and try to adjust colors, but those cameras sucked.


The speil says better than Japanese. But never known silverline do any kind of remastering at all The sound was best I have heard on any concert bluray and picture flawless. I wish I had Jap to compare to see if they have done anything or straight rip.. Then u put Warner Syracuse in. I still think could have done a bit better. Leaving black bars on side was not good idea either. First avenue should been choice . . Even cd sound was not best possible. Surely they need to do blurays now with rest of remasters. And stop the 7" edits if doing a 3cd and concert on each
[Edited 1/10/18 15:38pm]
[Edited 1/10/18 15:46pm]
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Reply #18 posted 01/10/18 3:58pm

ufoclub

avatar

master said:

ufoclub said:

Oh no, the Japanese and the Australian blu-ray are perfectly professionally done. I'm a videophile too! I bet the bootleg is just a straight rip that has been compressed more (so when lights are flashing it might look worse).

The Syracuse concert was a live broadcast with tube video cameras. That is how it looked... there is no getting better unless you de-interlace it and try to adjust colors, but those cameras sucked.

The speil says better than Japanese. But never known silverline do any kind of remastering at all The sound was best I have heard on any concert bluray and picture flawless. I wish I had Jap to compare to see if they have done anything or straight rip.. Then u put Warner Syracuse in. I still think could have done a bit better. Leaving black bars on side was not good idea either. First avenue should been choice . . Even cd sound was not best possible. Surely they need to do blurays now with rest of remasters. And stop the 7" edits if doing a 3cd and concert on each [Edited 1/10/18 15:38pm] [Edited 1/10/18 15:46pm]

Sounds like sales talk to me, take it with a grain of salt. I have both blu-rays (Australian and Japanese) and also had the Canadian DVD. I also can stream it in HD on Xfinity cable. I think they are all from the same master (The DVD is of course scaled down in resolution and cable is more compressed). You woud have to look at the overall file size and compare frames to see if how it matches up to the pirated version.



Syracuse: What could they do about black bars on the side? Its our TVs shaped wrong for the video, not the other way around. The video came first when everything was 4:3 ratios. TVs are now 16:9.

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Reply #19 posted 01/11/18 4:31am

master

ufoclub said:

master said:

ufoclub said: The speil says better than Japanese. But never known silverline do any kind of remastering at all The sound was best I have heard on any concert bluray and picture flawless. I wish I had Jap to compare to see if they have done anything or straight rip.. Then u put Warner Syracuse in. I still think could have done a bit better. Leaving black bars on side was not good idea either. First avenue should been choice . . Even cd sound was not best possible. Surely they need to do blurays now with rest of remasters. And stop the 7" edits if doing a 3cd and concert on each [Edited 1/10/18 15:38pm] [Edited 1/10/18 15:46pm]

Sounds like sales talk to me, take it with a grain of salt. I have both blu-rays (Australian and Japanese) and also had the Canadian DVD. I also can stream it in HD on Xfinity cable. I think they are all from the same master (The DVD is of course scaled down in resolution and cable is more compressed). You woud have to look at the overall file size and compare frames to see if how it matches up to the pirated version.



Syracuse: What could they do about black bars on the side? Its our TVs shaped wrong for the video, not the other way around. The video came first when everything was 4:3 ratios. TVs are now 16:9.

yeah your right just not used to seeing black bars like that maybe they need to make it automatic fit screen. I suspect with sott bluray being difficult to get they are keeping it back for sott remaster. When they are doing these remaster they need to use blu-ray as most people are getting these 4k tvs. And they makes these dvds and standard definition broadcasts look blurry . I have kept with full hd tv myself because dvds are unwatchable on the new tvs.

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Reply #20 posted 01/11/18 6:26am

JorisE73

ufoclub said:

master said:

ufoclub said: The speil says better than Japanese. But never known silverline do any kind of remastering at all The sound was best I have heard on any concert bluray and picture flawless. I wish I had Jap to compare to see if they have done anything or straight rip.. Then u put Warner Syracuse in. I still think could have done a bit better. Leaving black bars on side was not good idea either. First avenue should been choice . . Even cd sound was not best possible. Surely they need to do blurays now with rest of remasters. And stop the 7" edits if doing a 3cd and concert on each [Edited 1/10/18 15:38pm] [Edited 1/10/18 15:46pm]

Sounds like sales talk to me, take it with a grain of salt. I have both blu-rays (Australian and Japanese) and also had the Canadian DVD. I also can stream it in HD on Xfinity cable. I think they are all from the same master (The DVD is of course scaled down in resolution and cable is more compressed). You woud have to look at the overall file size and compare frames to see if how it matches up to the pirated version.



Syracuse: What could they do about black bars on the side? Its our TVs shaped wrong for the video, not the other way around. The video came first when everything was 4:3 ratios. TVs are now 16:9.


I saw the 2K version of Sign O The Times recently at the theaters, maybe Silverline got there hands on that source and put that on a bluray?
Or am I saying something stupid? I don't have a clue how all this HD tranfer stuff works. lol

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Reply #21 posted 01/11/18 7:45am

ufoclub

avatar

JorisE73 said:

ufoclub said:

Sounds like sales talk to me, take it with a grain of salt. I have both blu-rays (Australian and Japanese) and also had the Canadian DVD. I also can stream it in HD on Xfinity cable. I think they are all from the same master (The DVD is of course scaled down in resolution and cable is more compressed). You woud have to look at the overall file size and compare frames to see if how it matches up to the pirated version.



Syracuse: What could they do about black bars on the side? Its our TVs shaped wrong for the video, not the other way around. The video came first when everything was 4:3 ratios. TVs are now 16:9.


I saw the 2K version of Sign O The Times recently at the theaters, maybe Silverline got there hands on that source and put that on a bluray?
Or am I saying something stupid? I don't have a clue how all this HD tranfer stuff works. lol

There is an HD master that is not wide screen for SOTT, and that one actually has more picture info at the top and bottom of the frame (you see more in each shot than the official wide screen version). That might be the only other master I know of, but even that might be the same master off the same negative. Why does that exist?: For SOTT, it seems they actually shot it 4:3 in 35mm with markings in their viewfinders as to where they would crop it to make it widescreen. This was typically done on lower budget movies.

I didn't see the recent theatrical releases, so can't comment on the idea that Silverline got one of those, but I would suspect, since it came after the blu-ray and DVD, that the theatrical rerelease was a DCP file off the same master. DCP is one of the highest quality formats (it can be any resolution) that theater projectors use. Blu-rays are basically a very good quality quicktime or WMV type movie. But all of these would be copied from the same master.

I did see an actual film print of SOTT at a movie theater a few years ago in Los Angeles (at Quentin Tarrantino's owned theater). The colors did seem better than the blu-ray or DVD or cable version. This kond of a movie is a good contendor for an HDR master to be made off the negative (for the new HDR tvs). These new TV's have a bigger range between black and bright white, and have a much more smooth and detailed color spectrum as well. For a concert like this, that would be great!

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Reply #22 posted 01/11/18 8:22am

alandail

master said:

ufoclub said:
SOTT is available on blu-ray which is better visual quality than the Canadian DVD. But the same sound.
I saw sign o the time bluray on sign o the times deluxe silverline boot and the quality was fantastic, supposedly alot better than Jap bluray one but not seen either Jap or Canadian myself .. I felt if Warner's were going to put Syracuse on instead of first avenue qualiry needed to be alot better.Really shocked out how bad Warner's have got . They are a proper label so expect better. They needed to go to more effort on purple rain deluxe.. They really needs to put effort in with remastering and song choices if going to continue remastering . They do not seem bothered at all as not much money in it and not prepared to go to much effort unfortunately [Edited 1/10/18 12:40pm]

SOTT was shot on film (aside from the included music video for You Got The Look). The resolution of film has to be downgraded for VHS or DVD. You can go back to the film source and make a higher resolutoin Blu Ray or even a 4K UHD HDR version of something shot on film like SOTT.

Syracuse was shot on tape, which has a massively lower resolution than film. There is no source to go back to and make a higher resolution version of the Syracuse the way you can with SOTT or Purple Rain.

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Reply #23 posted 01/11/18 8:33am

djThunderfunk

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ufoclub said:

Syracuse: What could they do about black bars on the side? Its our TVs shaped wrong for the video, not the other way around. The video came first when everything was 4:3 ratios. TVs are now 16:9.


They could crop the picture to fit the screen and we would lose the top and bottom of the picture.

I for one am very glad they did NOT do that.

Unfortunately, they also did not make the DVD anamorphic, which means, when watching the DVD on a 4:3 screen, there are black bars on ALL 4 SIDES of the picture. This is a VERY sloppy mistake that most people haven't noticed because almost everyone is watching on a 16:9 tv. It would have cost them NOTHING to author the disc as anamorphic.

We were HERE, where were you?

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Reply #24 posted 01/11/18 8:57am

master

djThunderfunk said:



ufoclub said:



Syracuse: What could they do about black bars on the side? Its our TVs shaped wrong for the video, not the other way around. The video came first when everything was 4:3 ratios. TVs are now 16:9.




They could crop the picture to fit the screen and we would lose the top and bottom of the picture.


I for one am very glad they did NOT do that.

Unfortunately, they also did not make the DVD anamorphic, which means, when watching the DVD on a 4:3 screen, there are black bars on ALL 4 SIDES of the picture. This is a VERY sloppy mistake that most people haven't noticed because almost everyone is watching on a 16:9 tv. It would have cost them NOTHING to author the disc as anamorphic.


Yes that is exactly what I meant. Anamorphic
[Edited 1/11/18 9:22am]
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Reply #25 posted 01/11/18 10:45am

JorisE73

ufoclub said:

JorisE73 said:


I saw the 2K version of Sign O The Times recently at the theaters, maybe Silverline got there hands on that source and put that on a bluray?
Or am I saying something stupid? I don't have a clue how all this HD tranfer stuff works. lol

There is an HD master that is not wide screen for SOTT, and that one actually has more picture info at the top and bottom of the frame (you see more in each shot than the official wide screen version). That might be the only other master I know of, but even that might be the same master off the same negative. Why does that exist?: For SOTT, it seems they actually shot it 4:3 in 35mm with markings in their viewfinders as to where they would crop it to make it widescreen. This was typically done on lower budget movies.

I didn't see the recent theatrical releases, so can't comment on the idea that Silverline got one of those, but I would suspect, since it came after the blu-ray and DVD, that the theatrical rerelease was a DCP file off the same master. DCP is one of the highest quality formats (it can be any resolution) that theater projectors use. Blu-rays are basically a very good quality quicktime or WMV type movie. But all of these would be copied from the same master.

I did see an actual film print of SOTT at a movie theater a few years ago in Los Angeles (at Quentin Tarrantino's owned theater). The colors did seem better than the blu-ray or DVD or cable version. This kond of a movie is a good contendor for an HDR master to be made off the negative (for the new HDR tvs). These new TV's have a bigger range between black and bright white, and have a much more smooth and detailed color spectrum as well. For a concert like this, that would be great!


thanks for that info!
I read that Tarantino has a lot of special prints of (old) movies, maybe that SOTT source was one of his.

[Edited 1/11/18 11:01am]

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