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Thread started 09/19/17 4:14pm

purplerabbitho
le

bad chronic pain since when??

lady gaga, who is a mere 31, has a documentary coming out about her chronic pain issues. Prince, I figure, had been dancing for at least 35 years in some way, shape, or form (with his most strenous dancing occurring during the period of 1981-1999) before he died.. Man, he must have been dealing with a great deal of chronic pain for quite a long time, and medication of some degree would have been a part of his life from a pretty early stage and to think his JW affliates (and people like LG indirectly) are reminders of the limits he was supposed to put on surgery to cope with the problem. . Not to say he popped pills in front of everyone or was a fentanyl abuser like that one dude stated, but I do believe people had to have guessed he was on something to deal with the pain. That being said, since he never seemed out of control in a way that couldn't normally just be dismissed as Prince eccentricity (sometimes I wonder if that was his ruse--mystery and eccentricity to cover health and mental/emotional pain), they might have just figured he had a pain relief regiment that was under control until it became clear that he didn't have the control anymore..


Anyhow, I guess what I am trying to say is that chronic pain isn't just something that pops up when you hit your 50's and it can affect everything in your life, can make you lose patience with others when they complain or don't work as hard as you, it can add additional stress and anxiety and it can lead to more and more dependence. Sometimes, I wonder why Prince kept at the painful dancing for so long (didn't want to let fans down or be seen as weak,maybe?).


BTW, good for Lady Gaga (if its not an attention-getting ploy), a documentary like that one might be the equivalent of all those doc's on sports related concussions, leading to more compassion, sympathy and appreciation for the hard work rock stars/athletes do, and understanding about how chronic pain coupled with high expectation can impact one's mental and emotional state and led to drug dependence.

]

[Edited 9/19/17 16:25pm]

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Reply #1 posted 09/19/17 5:14pm

Bodhitheblackd
og

purplerabbithole said:

lady gaga, who is a mere 31, has a documentary coming out about her chronic pain issues. Prince, I figure, had been dancing for at least 35 years in some way, shape, or form (with his most strenous dancing occurring during the period of 1981-1999) before he died.. Man, he must have been dealing with a great deal of chronic pain for quite a long time, and medication of some degree would have been a part of his life from a pretty early stage and to think his JW affliates (and people like LG indirectly) are reminders of the limits he was supposed to put on surgery to cope with the problem. . Not to say he popped pills in front of everyone or was a fentanyl abuser like that one dude stated, but I do believe people had to have guessed he was on something to deal with the pain. That being said, since he never seemed out of control in a way that couldn't normally just be dismissed as Prince eccentricity (sometimes I wonder if that was his ruse--mystery and eccentricity to cover health and mental/emotional pain), they might have just figured he had a pain relief regiment that was under control until it became clear that he didn't have the control anymore..


Anyhow, I guess what I am trying to say is that chronic pain isn't just something that pops up when you hit your 50's and it can affect everything in your life, can make you lose patience with others when they complain or don't work as hard as you, it can add additional stress and anxiety and it can lead to more and more dependence. Sometimes, I wonder why Prince kept at the painful dancing for so long (didn't want to let fans down or be seen as weak,maybe?).


BTW, good for Lady Gaga (if its not an attention-getting ploy), a documentary like that one might be the equivalent of all those doc's on sports related concussions, leading to more compassion, sympathy and appreciation for the hard work rock stars/athletes do, and understanding about how chronic pain coupled with high expectation can impact one's mental and emotional state and led to drug dependence.

]

[Edited 9/19/17 16:25pm]

GREAT observations.

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Reply #2 posted 09/19/17 6:53pm

Militant

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We had reports on here that Prince had extreme chronic pain as far back as 2008...maybe even before that. The reports specifically stated that it was bad enough that he would need to have surgery.

He chose to self-medicate instead, but that's not going to cure anything.

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Reply #3 posted 09/19/17 7:15pm

purplerabbitho
le

I have read hip problems dated back to as early as 2004 (maybe 2002). But the point I am making is that chronic pain might have started the first couple of years his dancing started to feature splits and extreme athleticism. If Lady Gaga is feeling it quite a bit by 31 (and she even took breaks because of pain) then what was Prince feeling by that age? I don't think hip replacement was going to happen by 31. Hell, what if Prince considered getting hip surgery at 35 or 40 before he was a JW, would he have really taken off enough time. ALso, I don't imagine one is supposed to keep dancing with that kind of intensity after one gets hip replacement. Those hips are probably not intended for that kind of wear. Maybe the drug regiment to deal with chronic pain of various types was already a factor before 2004 but got worse after that time especially since he was following a religious faith that did not look kindly on evasive surgery that required blood transfusions. Plus, my point is that other pain issues could have been a factor. His chronic pain was probably much more varied,complicated,and constant than hip problems in the early 2000 exasperated by religious doctrine disallowing hip replacement.

Militant said:

We had reports on here that Prince had extreme chronic pain as far back as 2008...maybe even before that. The reports specifically stated that it was bad enough that he would need to have surgery.

He chose to self-medicate instead, but that's not going to cure anything.

[Edited 9/19/17 19:18pm]

[Edited 9/19/17 19:22pm]

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Reply #4 posted 09/19/17 7:58pm

purplefam99

I have often wondered how he cared for his body prior to performances
Did he properly warm up and cool down his physical instrument. It is very
Very important to do so, a proper warm up for a dancer before a show is the norm
And involves more than a few static stretches, it is a tiny class that dancers take on stage as a company before performing. Given the moves he was doing he needed to be doing that if he wasn't. That said even warming up and taking
Proper care dancers bodies suffer. The documentary "a ballerinas tale" I believe
That is the one,
About misty coupland speaks about the damage her body has undergone. How basically jumps are off limits for her now. I agree that probably since the life of dancer is waning by 30, I would assume given the athletic dancing he was doing
That yes perhaps he was starting to feel it as early as 30.
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Reply #5 posted 09/19/17 8:05pm

purplerabbitho
le

Yep, that's my point. People had to have known that he was taking something to help with pain by 40 or so, but maybe they were in some kind of denial because they themselves partook in pharmacuticals of some kind or because Prince seemed indestructable or because they just figured he knew how to handle it since they never say him pop pills in front of them or act dopey. Plus, how could they have known that the pills that would kill him would have enough fentanyl to kill 20 men?

purplefam99 said:

I have often wondered how he cared for his body prior to performances Did he properly warm up and cool down his physical instrument. It is very Very important to do so, a proper warm up for a dancer before a show is the norm And involves more than a few static stretches, it is a tiny class that dancers take on stage as a company before performing. Given the moves he was doing he needed to be doing that if he wasn't. That said even warming up and taking Proper care dancers bodies suffer. The documentary "a ballerinas tale" I believe That is the one, About misty coupland speaks about the damage her body has undergone. How basically jumps are off limits for her now. I agree that probably since the life of dancer is waning by 30, I would assume given the athletic dancing he was doing That yes perhaps he was starting to feel it as early as 30.

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Reply #6 posted 09/19/17 8:39pm

purplefam99

purplerabbithole said:

Yep, that's my point. People had to have known that he was taking something to help with pain by 40 or so, but maybe they were in some kind of denial because they themselves partook in pharmacuticals of some kind or because Prince seemed indestructable or because they just figured he knew how to handle it since they never say him pop pills in front of them or act dopey. Plus, how could they have known that the pills that would kill him would have enough fentanyl to kill 20 men?





purplefam99 said:


I have often wondered how he cared for his body prior to performances Did he properly warm up and cool down his physical instrument. It is very Very important to do so, a proper warm up for a dancer before a show is the norm And involves more than a few static stretches, it is a tiny class that dancers take on stage as a company before performing. Given the moves he was doing he needed to be doing that if he wasn't. That said even warming up and taking Proper care dancers bodies suffer. The documentary "a ballerinas tale" I believe That is the one, About misty coupland speaks about the damage her body has undergone. How basically jumps are off limits for her now. I agree that probably since the life of dancer is waning by 30, I would assume given the athletic dancing he was doing That yes perhaps he was starting to feel it as early as 30.




This is A TOTAL GUESS ok, but I think maybe if he was suffering as early as 29/30 he probably was medicating with Over the counter antiinflammatories for the majority of the time and prob used something stronger for shows. And as the pain became worse the slippery slope of more of the stronger became an easy option. To
Express music physically thru dance is a powerful need for some and I think that force within him bade him to keep moving.
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Reply #7 posted 09/19/17 9:10pm

rogifan

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A lot of speculation here.
Paisley Park is in your heart
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Reply #8 posted 09/19/17 9:30pm

purplefam99

rogifan said:

A lot of speculation here.




I led with that.
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Reply #9 posted 09/19/17 10:59pm

Dimitri10

What's even more strange, performances and touring aside

he lived an active life playing table tennis and bike riding up until his death...

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Reply #10 posted 09/19/17 11:07pm

sonshine

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You make some very good points. So much we may never know for sure and i guess i'm ok with that. I do often wish survivors of the deceased in these situations would be forthcoming in an effort to perhaps spare a life in the future. But i respect their wish for privacy as well. Its a very personal matter and everyone feels their own way about it and whatever they choose is fine.
The only other thing i wanted to mention is that I'm not altogether sure the JW faith puts as much restriction on its members heath care as some people believe. There might be some misinformation out there as far as that goes.
Have you had your plus sign (+) today?
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Reply #11 posted 09/20/17 2:40am

laurarichardso
n

Militant said:

We had reports on here that Prince had extreme chronic pain as far back as 2008...maybe even before that. The reports specifically stated that it was bad enough that he would need to have surgery.

He chose to self-medicate instead, but that's not going to cure anything.


--Maybe he did what doctors advised him to do. You need to do a little more research into the fact that pain meds have been over prescribed for patients for years. Who needs a big bottle of Percocet for a broken arm? Research before you speak.
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Reply #12 posted 09/20/17 2:48am

laurarichardso
n

laurarichardson said:

Militant said:

We had reports on here that Prince had extreme chronic pain as far back as 2008...maybe even before that. The reports specifically stated that it was bad enough that he would need to have surgery.

He chose to self-medicate instead, but that's not going to cure anything.


--Maybe he did what doctors advised him to do. You need to do a little more research into the fact that pain meds have been over prescribed for patients for years. Who needs a big bottle of Percocet for a broken arm? Research before you speak.

Right now the pharmaceutical industry is working on a vaccine for pain pills. What does that tell you?
They want to get people hooked and then sell a vaccine so you can continue taking them because big Pharma knows that research is being conducted with stem cells right now to lessen the need for these drugs. It is all about money and it is so they can keep dispensing these meds or this stupid vaccine.
[Edited 9/20/17 3:56am]
[Edited 9/20/17 4:25am]
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Reply #13 posted 09/20/17 2:54am

laurarichardso
n

rogifan said:

A lot of speculation here.

Billy Sparks said he had hip surgery and Tavis Smilely said he was dealing with chronic pain. Kevin Smith said he told him while working on the Rainbow Children doc that he could not stand up. Mikki White said a tour was canceled because he injured himself and Scott the engineer said he knew he was dealing with joint pain on the Musicolgy tour. See the article below were Prince mentioned it himself. It is not speculation he had some health issues and I suspect he never said too much about it publicly is because of concerns about insurance and people just not believing him. I hope GaGa doc can put a stop to this type of disbelief.
https://www.google.com/am...ons-death/
[Edited 9/20/17 2:57am]
[Edited 9/20/17 2:58am]
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Reply #14 posted 09/20/17 3:19am

MMJas

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The pain probably developed throughout the years, along with the painkiller addiction.

Besides, if he bought illicit fentanyl (and whatever other illicit pills) for pain management problems, he was indeed self medicating...

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Reply #15 posted 09/20/17 3:53am

laurarichardso
n

MMJas said:

The pain probably developed throughout the years, along with the painkiller addiction.

Besides, if he bought illicit fentanyl (and whatever other illicit pills) for pain management problems, he was indeed self medicating...

Perhaps he started self medicating in later years. He had surgery he was given pain meds and people with chronic pain are given Rxs for pain as a form of maintence and many have become addicted to them which started via their doctor.

Prince would not be the first person to have this happen to him and he will not be the last. Not to mention the effects to the liver and kidney these meds can do to a person's body over time.

Read about the football player Walter Payton. He took pain pills for years to keep playing football which were prescribed by team doctors. He died from liver diesese from taking those pills.

He played football the whole time just fine but look what happened to him in the end.

Do you realize their are some doctors who are now saying that these meds should not be used as a means for dealing with chronic pain at all since they are powerfull enought for people to become addicted?

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Reply #16 posted 09/20/17 4:11am

MMJas

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laurarichardson said:

MMJas said:

The pain probably developed throughout the years, along with the painkiller addiction.

Besides, if he bought illicit fentanyl (and whatever other illicit pills) for pain management problems, he was indeed self medicating...

Perhaps he started self medicating in later years. He had surgery he was given pain meds and people with chronic pain are given Rxs for pain as a form of maintence and many have become addicted to them which started via their doctor.

Prince would not be the first person to have this happen to him and he will not be the last. Not to mention the effects to the liver and kidney these meds can do to a person's body over time.

Read about the football player Walter Payton. He took pain pills for years to keep playing football which were prescribed by team doctors. He died from liver diesese from taking those pills.

He played football the whole time just fine but look what happened to him in the end.

Do you realize their are some doctors who are now saying that these meds should not be used as a means for dealing with chronic pain at all since they are powerfull enought for people to become addicted?

yes, I was actually reading about that recently.
I think doctors in the USA tend to prescripe very strong medication in comparrison to doctors in Europe. There's a whole lobby, I understand that, and it sure has increadible weight over there, imo.

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Reply #17 posted 09/20/17 4:23am

laurarichardso
n

MMJas said:

laurarichardson said:

Perhaps he started self medicating in later years. He had surgery he was given pain meds and people with chronic pain are given Rxs for pain as a form of maintence and many have become addicted to them which started via their doctor.

Prince would not be the first person to have this happen to him and he will not be the last. Not to mention the effects to the liver and kidney these meds can do to a person's body over time.

Read about the football player Walter Payton. He took pain pills for years to keep playing football which were prescribed by team doctors. He died from liver diesese from taking those pills.

He played football the whole time just fine but look what happened to him in the end.

Do you realize their are some doctors who are now saying that these meds should not be used as a means for dealing with chronic pain at all since they are powerfull enought for people to become addicted?

yes, I was actually reading about that recently.
I think doctors in the USA tend to prescripe very strong medication in comparrison to doctors in Europe. There's a whole lobby, I understand that, and it sure has increadible weight over there, imo.

It is a hugh lobby with a tremendous amount of money involved. When Sheila E said big Pharma killed my friend I sincerely believe she knows a doctor prescribed these powerful meds to Prince as a form of maintence for pain. I think she knows a bit more about the stituation then she lets on and she put this line in her cover of "Pusherman" by Curtis Mayfield for that reason.

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Reply #18 posted 09/20/17 7:07am

TweetyV6

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purplefam99 said:

I have often wondered how he cared for his body prior to performances Did he properly warm up and cool down his physical instrument. It is very Very important to do so, a proper warm up for a dancer before a show is the norm And involves more than a few static stretches, it is a tiny class that dancers take on stage as a company before performing.


Warming up does help but is no guarantee for preventing wear of joints and other damage to the body.
A lot of former top-athletes like Steffi Graf or Andre Agassi now have several complications with their joints, hips and muscles.

And what P did was on that level. He was comparable to a top athlete.

My wife works at a Chiropractor Clinic. I go there every 3-4 months to have my back, neck, anckles and hip checked and aligned by her boss if necessary.

He also looks after many athletes, in particular Arjen Robben (Dutch star soccer player, playing for Bayern München), many of his fellow players at Bayern and he frequently visited Usain Bolt during big athletic events. They all need special attention as they go to the limits of their bodies capabilities.

I guess chiropractical treatment like this would have prevented some of the damage and limited the pain P had when he died and it would have made him more aware that wearing high heels and all the splits, jumps etc. are not so good for his body.

___________________________________________________________________________________

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Reply #19 posted 09/20/17 7:34am

laurarichardso
n

TweetyV6 said:

purplefam99 said:

I have often wondered how he cared for his body prior to performances Did he properly warm up and cool down his physical instrument. It is very Very important to do so, a proper warm up for a dancer before a show is the norm And involves more than a few static stretches, it is a tiny class that dancers take on stage as a company before performing.


Warming up does help but is no guarantee for preventing wear of joints and other damage to the body.
A lot of former top-athletes like Steffi Graf or Andre Agassi now have several complications with their joints, hips and muscles.

And what P did was on that level. He was comparable to a top athlete.

My wife works at a Chiropractor Clinic. I go there every 3-4 months to have my back, neck, anckles and hip checked and aligned by her boss if necessary.

He also looks after many athletes, in particular Arjen Robben (Dutch star soccer player, playing for Bayern München), many of his fellow players at Bayern and he frequently visited Usain Bolt during big athletic events. They all need special attention as they go to the limits of their bodies capabilities.

I guess chiropractical treatment like this would have prevented some of the damage and limited the pain P had when he died and it would have made him more aware that wearing high heels and all the splits, jumps etc. are not so good for his body.

There is a rumor that they found a chiroprator table in his living quarters at Paisley Park. I believe he may have tried other things besides pain pills as Dr S is now working at a Senior Center specializing in joint pain so he was seeing a doctor for his problems.

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Reply #20 posted 09/20/17 7:44am

PennyPurple

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The difference is GaGa has a disease. Prince didn't have chronic pain from a disease...that we know of.

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Reply #21 posted 09/20/17 7:45am

rogifan

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MMJas said:



laurarichardson said:




MMJas said:


The pain probably developed throughout the years, along with the painkiller addiction.


Besides, if he bought illicit fentanyl (and whatever other illicit pills) for pain management problems, he was indeed self medicating...



Perhaps he started self medicating in later years. He had surgery he was given pain meds and people with chronic pain are given Rxs for pain as a form of maintence and many have become addicted to them which started via their doctor.




Prince would not be the first person to have this happen to him and he will not be the last. Not to mention the effects to the liver and kidney these meds can do to a person's body over time.



Read about the football player Walter Payton. He took pain pills for years to keep playing football which were prescribed by team doctors. He died from liver diesese from taking those pills.


He played football the whole time just fine but look what happened to him in the end.



Do you realize their are some doctors who are now saying that these meds should not be used as a means for dealing with chronic pain at all since they are powerfull enought for people to become addicted?





yes, I was actually reading about that recently.
I think doctors in the USA tend to prescripe very strong medication in comparrison to doctors in Europe. There's a whole lobby, I understand that, and it sure has increadible weight over there, imo.


Right now highly addictive painkillers are much cheaper than non-addictive options so that’s what insurance companies approve.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #22 posted 09/20/17 7:48am

PennyPurple

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laurarichardson said:

There is a rumor that they found a chiroprator table in his living quarters at Paisley Park. I believe he may have tried other things besides pain pills as Dr S is now working at a Senior Center specializing in joint pain so he was seeing a doctor for his problems.

Didn't he only see Dr. S, 2 times?

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Reply #23 posted 09/20/17 8:28am

eyenevermind

Lady Gaga has stated she has chronic pain due to fibromyalgia. Fribromyalgia is a completely different thing. Some days just waking up causes extreme pain with that disease. It is not from use/overuse but rather an issue with nerves and autoimmune system.

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Reply #24 posted 09/20/17 8:47am

MMJas

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rogifan said:

MMJas said:

yes, I was actually reading about that recently.
I think doctors in the USA tend to prescripe very strong medication in comparrison to doctors in Europe. There's a whole lobby, I understand that, and it sure has increadible weight over there, imo.

Right now highly addictive painkillers are much cheaper than non-addictive options so that’s what insurance companies approve.

Scary stuff...

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Reply #25 posted 09/20/17 9:00am

rogifan

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MMJas said:



rogifan said:


MMJas said:


yes, I was actually reading about that recently.
I think doctors in the USA tend to prescripe very strong medication in comparrison to doctors in Europe. There's a whole lobby, I understand that, and it sure has increadible weight over there, imo.



Right now highly addictive painkillers are much cheaper than non-addictive options so that’s what insurance companies approve.


Scary stuff...


Yeah there was a story in The NY Times about it. Unfortunately the story only focused on insurance companies and didn’t really explain why these less addictive drugs are so much more expensive. Is it just because they don’t have to be prescribed as frequently or is it because they’re newer unproven drugs that just haven’t come down in price yet?
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #26 posted 09/20/17 9:47am

sonshine

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laurarichardson said:

Militant said:

We had reports on here that Prince had extreme chronic pain as far back as 2008...maybe even before that. The reports specifically stated that it was bad enough that he would need to have surgery.

He chose to self-medicate instead, but that's not going to cure anything.


--Maybe he did what doctors advised him to do. You need to do a little more research into the fact that pain meds have been over prescribed for patients for years. Who needs a big bottle of Percocet for a broken arm? Research before you speak.

He was obviously self-medicating. It cost him his life. What his doctors may or may not have advised him IN THE PAST doesnt change the fact that he was self-medicating in the end.
Have you had your plus sign (+) today?
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Reply #27 posted 09/20/17 10:27am

laurarichardso
n

sonshine said:

laurarichardson said:
--Maybe he did what doctors advised him to do. You need to do a little more research into the fact that pain meds have been over prescribed for patients for years. Who needs a big bottle of Percocet for a broken arm? Research before you speak.
He was obviously self-medicating. It cost him his life. What his doctors may or may not have advised him IN THE PAST doesnt change the fact that he was self-medicating in the end.

What would we do if we did not have you to tell us the obvious? Try looking beyond the stituation to what actually caused it all in the first place. I believe we are discussing chronic pain.

I have asked this question a thousand times. What would you do if you were in pain and these drugs are so powerful that you became addicted to them and found unfortunatly that despite the risk you actually need to make it day to day?

Do not be so quick to judge. We are all getting older and could be on this road someday.

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Reply #28 posted 09/20/17 10:30am

laurarichardso
n

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

There is a rumor that they found a chiroprator table in his living quarters at Paisley Park. I believe he may have tried other things besides pain pills as Dr S is now working at a Senior Center specializing in joint pain so he was seeing a doctor for his problems.

Didn't he only see Dr. S, 2 times?

That we know of. For all we know he could have seen Dr. S before under an assumed name. It would be in Dr. S medical files and since he appears to be in the clear from any legal trouble I am going to assume he was treating Prince for legitmate joint issues.

We also have no idea what Dr. Prince saw prior to Dr. S if he had surgery he had a doctor or doctors in the past.

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Reply #29 posted 09/20/17 10:49am

Mumio

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laurarichardson said:

What would you do if you were in pain and these drugs are so powerful that you became addicted to them and found unfortunatly that despite the risk you actually need to make it day to day?



If you (not personally) were in pain 24/7 and had been so for some time, I have no doubt whatsoever that any medication that would make that pain either bearable or go away for a little while would be the choice. In spite of the risk associated with a lot of these painkillers, to be in pain all the time is just too damn much for most people. I can not blame anyone who can't deal without the medication to make their life easier to bear with less pain. Addiction may be the side effect as well as a need for higher levels, but who wants to be in agony all the time? I wouldn't and would do what I needed to do. I worry with all this concern about the addictive nature of these drugs that they won't be available for those who need them. People need quality to their life and not being able to treat intractable pain would be torture. Suicide rates would sky-rocket in that case.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio… they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end.
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