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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Loring Park Sessions Have Never Been Heard - Sound 80 Have
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Reply #30 posted 05/02/17 9:36am

masaba

steakfinger said:

I hope it's NOT true. If the drummer is Prince then he had some major time-keeping issues. The tempo speeds up often during fills, the main symptom of a beginner. I assumed from the moment I heard it that it was Bobby Z. The bass and keyboards are very solid, though.

He loses the tempo a lot. Even on studio recordings. He makes it back though.

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Reply #31 posted 05/03/17 12:36am

databank

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I had always been puzzled by the fact that some tracks feature both keyboards and guitar at the same time, implying overdubs that seemed unlikely given the context.

Similarly, I'd always felt the drums really didn't sound like Bobby at all.

It all makes sense now.

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Reply #32 posted 05/04/17 11:13am

bashraka

databank said:

I had always been puzzled by the fact that some tracks feature both keyboards and guitar at the same time, implying overdubs that seemed unlikely given the context.

Similarly, I'd always felt the drums really didn't sound like Bobby at all.

It all makes sense now.

The clavinet was a keyboard instrument really popular among musicians in the '70s whose timbre is similar to guitar, so if Prince only played keyboards on "Loring Park Sessions" that would explain what you hear.

3121 #1 THIS YEAR
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Reply #33 posted 05/04/17 4:02pm

databank

avatar

bashraka said:

databank said:

I had always been puzzled by the fact that some tracks feature both keyboards and guitar at the same time, implying overdubs that seemed unlikely given the context.

Similarly, I'd always felt the drums really didn't sound like Bobby at all.

It all makes sense now.

The clavinet was a keyboard instrument really popular among musicians in the '70s whose timbre is similar to guitar, so if Prince only played keyboards on "Loring Park Sessions" that would explain what you hear.

I usually know a clavinet from a guitar, I'll listen to it again and tell u.

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Reply #34 posted 05/05/17 3:10pm

Replica

avatar

steakfinger said:

I hope it's NOT true. If the drummer is Prince then he had some major time-keeping issues. The tempo speeds up often during fills, the main symptom of a beginner. I assumed from the moment I heard it that it was Bobby Z. The bass and keyboards are very solid, though.

The more I've been drumming myself, and the more I've really listened to good drummers, the more I've noticed his "flaws". His minor time keeping issues, and being a bit too easy on the skins. And I'm not talking about him having a "light" and jazzy playing style. This is being VERY picky, as Prince is not a drummer first. However he would often compose music with drums at the core. His best abilities as a drummer, is hearing the arrangement in his head, making room for other important instruments, and using small fills that keeps the drumtrack interresting without doing too much. What he does to make his drumming sound alot better, is his ability to glue it all together by complementing the drums with all the other instruments. This is where the genuis takes place.

His drumming on For You did show that he was a multi talent, but it also revealed some akward cliches here and there. And we have to remind ourselves that Prince spent alot more time on this album than he would do later on. He managed to get rid of some of the most akward fills on Prince, and got totally rid of it on Dirty Mind imo. I actually think he was a very good drum composer around that time. One of the best actually. But even then, Morris Day would be the better choice for his more funky cuts when it comes to raw power and attitude. That is what make songs like Irresistable Bitch some of the most Princey songs Prince ever made. Morris completes what Prince was going for on funky cuts. Prince was going for a similar sound when he was programming with his Linn lm1, and has even admitted to being inspired by Morris. Even when saying all of this, I think albums like Dirty Mind are perfect with his not fully developed technical skills. It adds to the unpolished sound, the more punkish nature and somewhat infantil approach to grown relationships. The concept of that album is just too perfect imo. Of course sonically, lyrically and musically, albums like Purple Rain and SOTT would completely outshine it with their 3D epic feel. But Dirty Mind will always be one of my favourites. And it is also a perfect place to study his drumming.

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Reply #35 posted 05/06/17 9:43am

paulludvig

Isn't the time keep ingen issue an example of what classical musicians call rubato?
The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #36 posted 05/07/17 2:17am

MachineElf

masaba said:

He loses the tempo a lot. Even on studio recordings. He makes it back though.



Possibly worth pointing out on this: Susan Rogers says Prince generally came in with the song in his head, and would lay the drum track down *first*, singing the song to himself to keep track of the changes/needed fills etc. He also, AFAIK, did not like to use a click track. He would then lay down the other tracks - keyboard, bass, guitar.

So any timing issues, that weren't intentional changes for 'feel'...I really find it hard to criticise, given the above process (not to mention on these sessions, how young he was and drums weren't his main groove).

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Reply #37 posted 05/10/17 3:29am

MiceElfAgin

MachineElf said:

masaba said:

He loses the tempo a lot. Even on studio recordings. He makes it back though.



Possibly worth pointing out on this: Susan Rogers says Prince generally came in with the song in his head, and would lay the drum track down *first*, singing the song to himself to keep track of the changes/needed fills etc. He also, AFAIK, did not like to use a click track. He would then lay down the other tracks - keyboard, bass, guitar.

So any timing issues, that weren't intentional changes for 'feel'...I really find it hard to criticise, given the above process (not to mention on these sessions, how young he was and drums weren't his main groove).

.
Hell, even Billy Cobham loses tempo on Stratus, for example. It slows down considerably.

.

Btw, 'Let's Work' slows down too, especially the extended version.

.

[Edited 5/10/17 3:34am]

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Reply #38 posted 05/10/17 4:35am

MiceElfAgin

.

If these are the recordings we're all talking about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQKl870Sm_g

.

then I'd LOVE to know who played on them too. As much as I love Prince and I'm aware of his incredible skills, I just honestly cannot imagine him being able to pull this off alone. This sounds like a band jamming – I find it very hard to believe he would've been able to lay down the drums for these tracks on their own, and then add bass and the rest, one by one. This is, for the most part, jamming – not something composed.
.
If it turns out that it's all just him indeed, there will be many jaws dropped, including mine.

.

[Edited 5/10/17 4:40am]

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Reply #39 posted 05/10/17 9:02am

udo

avatar

MiceElfAgin said:

.

If these are the recordings we're all talking about

.

If I understand things correctly these linked tracks are supposed to be Prince on everything, recorded at sound 80.

The real Loring Park stuff is supposedly unheard.

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill
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Reply #40 posted 05/10/17 9:18am

MiceElfAgin

udo said:

MiceElfAgin said:

.

If these are the recordings we're all talking about

.

If I understand things correctly these linked tracks are supposed to be Prince on everything, recorded at sound 80.

The real Loring Park stuff is supposedly unheard.

.
That's exactly what I meant. If the above linked tracks are now suggested to be Prince all by himself, I would be VERY surprised (and impressed) if it would prove to be true. I think they were recorded as a group session – so I'd love to know who played on it.

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Reply #41 posted 05/10/17 3:35pm

databank

avatar

MiceElfAgin said:

udo said:

.

If I understand things correctly these linked tracks are supposed to be Prince on everything, recorded at sound 80.

The real Loring Park stuff is supposedly unheard.

.
That's exactly what I meant. If the above linked tracks are now suggested to be Prince all by himself, I would be VERY surprised (and impressed) if it would prove to be true. I think they were recorded as a group session – so I'd love to know who played on it.

It wouldn't be so much more impressive than Just As Long As We'Re Together/Jelly Jam.

Owen Husney (I think it was him) once recalled hearing P's demo for the first time and asking "who's this amazing band? They're so tight!" and being shocked to hear it was one man, let alone a 18 y.o. one.

If Prince wanted to be a one man band, this is exactly the kind of "practice sessions" he'd record in order to experiment with his capacity to sound like a real, live band.

It's not unthinkable that Bobby, André or others (Morris?) could have been involved, though. But at that point Prince was very capable of recording such instrumentals by himself.

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Reply #42 posted 05/10/17 3:43pm

MiceElfAgin

databank said:

MiceElfAgin said:

.
That's exactly what I meant. If the above linked tracks are now suggested to be Prince all by himself, I would be VERY surprised (and impressed) if it would prove to be true. I think they were recorded as a group session – so I'd love to know who played on it.

It wouldn't be so much more impressive than Just As Long As We'Re Together/Jelly Jam.

Owen Husney (I think it was him) once recalled hearing P's demo for the first time and asking "who's this amazing band? They're so tight!" and being shocked to hear it was one man, let alone a 18 y.o. one.

If Prince wanted to be a one man band, this is exactly the kind of "practice sessions" he'd record in order to experiment with his capacity to sound like a real, live band.

It's not unthinkable that Bobby, André or others (Morris?) could have been involved, though. But at that point Prince was very capable of recording such instrumentals by himself.

.
I'm not saying he wasn't capable of playing any of those parts. I'm talking about the jamming nature of those songs and the way different instruments are reacting to what the other is playing. Keeping all of that in mind while laying down just a drum track first is something that I find very hard to imagine, even about Prince.

I vote for this being a group session. But as I said, I will be VERY impressed if I'm proved wrong.

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Reply #43 posted 05/19/17 7:39pm

fakir

Also known as... Husney's - A Work in Progress - circa 2011~2012

Instrumental #1 is dope!

The Ignorant asserts,The learned doubts,The wise thinks.

Aristotle
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Reply #44 posted 06/09/17 8:27am

RodeoSchro

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On a non-related note, I spent Wednesday wandering around Loring Park, playing Prince songs on my guitar. I came upon an outdoor stage, where the Minneapolis Parks and Recreation department had brought a sound system, and there were a couple guitarists performing.

They were playing originals (I guess). No Prince music - on Prince's birthday! I asked the Parks people if I could play but they said these things were booked months in advance. I asked them who I needed to talk to so I could book myself next June 7th.

And that's what I'm going to do in January, when they start booking acts!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #45 posted 06/09/17 12:28pm

Rev

avatar

RodeoSchro said:

On a non-related note, I spent Wednesday wandering around Loring Park, playing Prince songs on my guitar. I came upon an outdoor stage, where the Minneapolis Parks and Recreation department had brought a sound system, and there were a couple guitarists performing.

They were playing originals (I guess). No Prince music - on Prince's birthday! I asked the Parks people if I could play but they said these things were booked months in advance. I asked them who I needed to talk to so I could book myself next June 7th.

And that's what I'm going to do in January, when they start booking acts!

That is pretty cool goal. If I was still in Minnesota, I'd check it out biggrin

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Reply #46 posted 06/11/17 5:50pm

GustavoRibas

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databank said:

I had always been puzzled by the fact that some tracks feature both keyboards and guitar at the same time, implying overdubs that seemed unlikely given the context.

Similarly, I'd always felt the drums really didn't sound like Bobby at all.

It all makes sense now.

.

- Well, but Prince, Bobby and Andre could have recorded keys, drums and bass ´live in the studio´ and Prince could have added the guitar later. Ok, it wouldnt be true to the ´live jam´ context, but maybe he felt some guitar would be welcome in some parts.

Peace
Gustavo Ribas
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Reply #47 posted 06/12/17 9:27am

RodeoSchro

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Rev said:

RodeoSchro said:

On a non-related note, I spent Wednesday wandering around Loring Park, playing Prince songs on my guitar. I came upon an outdoor stage, where the Minneapolis Parks and Recreation department had brought a sound system, and there were a couple guitarists performing.

They were playing originals (I guess). No Prince music - on Prince's birthday! I asked the Parks people if I could play but they said these things were booked months in advance. I asked them who I needed to talk to so I could book myself next June 7th.

And that's what I'm going to do in January, when they start booking acts!

That is pretty cool goal. If I was still in Minnesota, I'd check it out biggrin




highfive I will be sure to post here if it comes together!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #48 posted 06/12/17 10:55am

GustavoRibas

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BTW, I would be really a great surprise if they confirmed it´s Prince

I dont doubt he had the skills to perform those bass and drums, but I dont feel his style on them. He was more minimalist. On the keys, it´s surely him.

Peace
Gustavo Ribas
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Reply #49 posted 06/14/17 6:09am

Laydown

Can someone give us a tracklist of the Loring Sessions. What are they please?

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