independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Wed 28th Jun 2017 5:22am
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > how come Prince didn't sue Phill Colins for ripping 1999 for Sussudio
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 2 12>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 03/10/17 11:16am

thebanishedone

how come Prince didn't sue Phill Colins for ripping 1999 for Sussudio

Sussudio is a clear rip of a title song from 1999.Prince used to take legal actions for far less and Sussudio is clearly a 1999ripoff
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 03/10/17 11:42am

blacknote

avatar

"Yeah, and Michael Jackson's a father......."- Robin Williams, 2002

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 03/10/17 11:48am

Iamtheorg

avatar

Didnt they talk about it and Prince was cool with it?

Just like Journey/Caine was okay with Purple Rain?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 03/10/17 11:53am

HerecomethePur
pleYoda

avatar

I can hear Prince singing, "I'm gonna sue, sue yea..."

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 03/10/17 12:31pm

TrivialPursuit

beatdeadhorse

I've never heard that Phil called Prince, but he could have. Anything is possible. Also, usually an artist will let things go if the other artist says it's "inspired by" or "a nod to" another artist or song.

I was on a radio show with a friend (who was the host) with Marvin Gaye's son. This was when the initial talk of Robin Thicke's "Blurred Lines" being a "ripoff" was being circulated. Then Thicke sues the Gaye estate so they can't use him and Pharrell. Marvin III said that if Robin or Pharrell had just said something like "we wanted to pay tribute to Marvin Gaye in a song..." etc etc., then the estate wouldn't have thought twice about it.

Artists do it all the time. But because Thicke came at them the way he did, that's when it became an issue they pursued. Phil has said he was influenced by Prince and "1999". That's sort of a "I borrowed some elements, but please don't sue me, cuz I love you" statement.

While there are extreme similarities in the two, there are enough differences that possibly kept Phil from owing Prince royalties, had it ever gone to court. Things like drum patterns, and possibly some chord progressions can't be copyrighted, nor can song titles. There are blues progressions that are echoed in song after song after song through generations. (Remember when The Pointer Sisters and VanHalen both had songs out called "Jump"? The Pointer Sisters altered theirs to "Jump (For My Love)" avoid confusion.)

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 03/10/17 12:53pm

mrpunkfunk

avatar

Sussudio was a big enough disaster without getting the courts involved. lol

Lady Cab Driver is one of the greatest songs ever!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 03/10/17 1:05pm

Iamtheorg

avatar

mrpunkfunk said:

Sussudio was a big enough disaster without getting the courts involved. lol

Sus was huge (deservedly so). The ewf horn breakdown is heaven

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 03/10/17 2:29pm

TrivialPursuit

Iamtheorg said:

mrpunkfunk said:

Sussudio was a big enough disaster without getting the courts involved. lol

Sus was huge (deservedly so). The ewf horn breakdown is heaven


And the extended mix is even more Prince-esque.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 03/10/17 3:34pm

SoulAlive

The song "Purple Rain" borrows elements from Journey's "Faithfully".This happens all the time in pop music.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 03/10/17 3:55pm

GottaLetitgo

"I wish it would rain down" sounds like "Purple Rain"
All good things they say never last...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 03/10/17 3:58pm

GottaLetitgo

Easy lover sounds like take me with u
All good things they say never last...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 03/10/17 4:05pm

GottaLetitgo

You'll be in my heart sounds like Jughead
All good things they say never last...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 03/10/17 4:22pm

TrivialPursuit

SoulAlive said:

The song "Purple Rain" borrows elements from Journey's "Faithfully".This happens all the time in pop music.


I'd go a bit further than that. The 4 chords of either song are only a half-step off from each other.

In another thread about the Journey thing, I noted:

I knew the chords were similar, but then I referenced the sheet music. In basics, "Purple Rain" is...

Bbsus2 - Gm7(add4) - F - Eb(add2) (Wendy & Lisa added some embellishments on those chords).

"Faithfully" is B - G#m - B/F# - E.

So they're like a half step apart. But yeah, the melodies are totally different. I mean, every other blues song has a similar progression, so it's hard to sue on that alone.

It would be cool of Journey to play "Faithfully" in concert, and beforehand tell the Prince story, then break into the chorus on "Faithfully" in the place of its normal bridge or something.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 03/10/17 5:02pm

sovembol

Because Sussudio kicks ass 😜
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 03/11/17 7:50pm

Toofunkyinhere

Inspired by, not a ripp off.

Pay me peanuts, and i'll act like a monkey.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 03/11/17 8:39pm

EnDoRpHn

thebanishedone said:

Sussudio is a clear rip of a title song from 1999.Prince used to take legal actions for far less and Sussudio is clearly a 1999ripoff

Phil Collins said in multiple interviews at the time that it was intended as a tribute.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 03/12/17 3:37am

darkroman

I've just listened to this on YouTube.

.

The synth has a similar sound, but all synths do, but in no way are the cords the same.

.

Yet another urban myth still doing the rounds.

.

Give it up and move on!

.

lol

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 03/12/17 10:07am

TrivialPursuit

darkroman said:

I've just listened to this on YouTube.

.

The synth has a similar sound, but all synths do, but in no way are the cords the same.

.

Yet another urban myth still doing the rounds.

.

Give it up and move on!

.

lol


All of that is very untrue. There are so many of the same elements. It's only one-step off from the original key. It's not about a synth sound. That's pedestrian. The percussion in Prince's song is mimicked in a percussive synth bass in Phil's. The rhythm of the synths is similar. Even when Phil goes into "I've...got to get closer but I don't how" takes the same sort of chord change as when Prince goes into "2000 zero zero party over oops out of time".

Hell, you could sing one over the other if you tried.

The basic chords are a step apart:

Sussudio:

C - Dm7/C - Bb/C

1999:

F6 - Gm/F

And 1999 goes to Bb, Dm7, then works back to F eventually. Phil's is similar as well.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 03/12/17 4:15pm

thebanishedone

TrivialPursuit said:

darkroman said:

I've just listened to this on YouTube.

.

The synth has a similar sound, but all synths do, but in no way are the cords the same.

.

Yet another urban myth still doing the rounds.

.

Give it up and move on!

.

lol


All of that is very untrue. There are so many of the same elements. It's only one-step off from the original key. It's not about a synth sound. That's pedestrian. The percussion in Prince's song is mimicked in a percussive synth bass in Phil's. The rhythm of the synths is similar. Even when Phil goes into "I've...got to get closer but I don't how" takes the same sort of chord change as when Prince goes into "2000 zero zero party over oops out of time".

Hell, you could sing one over the other if you tried.

The basic chords are a step apart:

Sussudio:

C - Dm7/C - Bb/C

1999:

F6 - Gm/F

And 1999 goes to Bb, Dm7, then works back to F eventually. Phil's is similar as well.

thank you for this post smile yeah synth lick sounds the same

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 03/12/17 11:13pm

mrfreeze

A short article on the similarities to 1999.

http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/12/19/phil-collins-sussudio-prince-1999/

There is a link to a Demo version of Sussudio and it is pretty obvious it is inspired by 1999.

There was also a mashup on youtube of the 2 songs but I can not find it now but it was pretty cool, each song flowed into each other.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 03/12/17 11:32pm

TrivialPursuit

mrfreeze said:

A short article on the similarities to 1999.

http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/12/19/phil-collins-sussudio-prince-1999/

There is a link to a Demo version of Sussudio and it is pretty obvious it is inspired by 1999.

There was also a mashup on youtube of the 2 songs but I can not find it now but it was pretty cool, each song flowed into each other.


I like the demo. A lot of those synths hits are still in the album version, but buried under the horns, and the bass. Hearing the drum machine clearer, it's even more obvious he was pulling from "1999". I mean, sometimes ya gotta go with what you're feeling at the moment. Get it out of your system. To release it is another issue all together.

I wrote a song about 11 years ago called "Free (U Got Me)". It plainly has a sample of the guitar hit from "Batdance" throughout. I also employed a deeper voice effect on my voice, and a higher effect for backing vocals, much like Prince played around with Camille, and voices on "All My Dreams"/"Acknowledge Me", etc.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 03/13/17 7:29am

scratchtasia

GottaLetitgo said:

You'll be in my heart sounds like Jughead

Well, this almost caused a spit-take. Thanks!

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 03/13/17 3:14pm

ufoclub

avatar

This was talked about at the time. I remember the Phil Collins video coming on and my friend talking about it back then, maybe it was '86?

How many remember Stevie Wonder releasing "Part Time Lover" and then everyone saying, wait a minute, and listening to "Maneater" by Hall & Oates

Check out my first feature film trailer: https://vimeo.com/184919908
Check out my first art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid

VIDEO WORK: http://sharadkantpatel.com
MUSIC: http://www.soundcloud.com/ufoclub1977
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 03/13/17 4:15pm

TrivialPursuit

ufoclub said:

This was talked about at the time. I remember the Phil Collins video coming on and my friend talking about it back then, maybe it was '86?

How many remember Stevie Wonder releasing "Part Time Lover" and then everyone saying, wait a minute, and listening to "Maneater" by Hall & Oates


Oh damn! I never liked PTL much anyway. It was generic, especially now compared to better pop tune like "Maneater".

And let's not forget Ray Parker Jr. ripping "Ghostbusters" from Huey Lewis & The News' "I Want A New Drug". Ray tried to go back and sue Huey Lewis a few years ago, because Huey talked about it - a bit - in a Behind The Music or similar. He said he was a breach of the confidentiality agreement that protected the settlement. Ray was, as a former coworker once said, up an unsanitary tributary without proper means of locomotion after that one, too.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 03/14/17 6:28am

scratchtasia

TrivialPursuit said:

And let's not forget Ray Parker Jr. ripping "Ghostbusters" from Huey Lewis & The News' "I Want A New Drug". Ray tried to go back and sue Huey Lewis a few years ago, because Huey talked about it - a bit - in a Behind The Music or similar. He said he was a breach of the confidentiality agreement that protected the settlement. Ray was, as a former coworker once said, up an unsanitary tributary without proper means of locomotion after that one, too.



I still remember the first time I heard "Ghostbusters," on a weekly radio program that played all the brand-new singles (like the syndicated show Future Hits, but a local version). I immediately thought it was a rip-off of "I Want a New Drug"--one of my favorites back then--and in my youthful indignation I even called the DJ to talk about it. That program was also where I first got to hear "When Doves Cry."

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 03/14/17 6:58am

CAL3

thebanishedone said:

Sussudio is a clear rip of a title song from 1999.Prince used to take legal actions for far less and Sussudio is clearly a 1999ripoff

.

They ain't the same song. The similarities are too incidental to constitue plagiarism. The melody and lyrics are different.

.

Nowadays, we live in the sad reality of a post-"Blurred Lines"-defeat world. That miscarriage of justice has led to the popular belief that songs evoking the "feel" or "atmosphere" of another song somehow represent theft. Shame on the jury who found in favor of the Gaye estate.

.

Maybe - hopefully - the "Blurred Lines" travesty will turn out to be an anomoly rather than a new standard. The Randy California estate lost their suit again Led Zep (thank God for that). Using the "Blurred Lines" case as a standard, maybe "Sussudio" is a 'ripoff' of '1999.' But for the most part, chord progressions aren't copyrightable (jazz artists like Charlie Parker and many more wouldn't have a compositional credit to their names if that was the case) and certainly not drum patterns, riffs, or the overall "vibe" of a song.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 03/14/17 7:33am

RodeoSchro

avatar

mrfreeze said:

A short article on the similarities to 1999.

http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/12/19/phil-collins-sussudio-prince-1999/

There is a link to a Demo version of Sussudio and it is pretty obvious it is inspired by 1999.

There was also a mashup on youtube of the 2 songs but I can not find it now but it was pretty cool, each song flowed into each other.



That's really cool, thanks!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

Cowardice always hides behind insinuation
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 03/14/17 10:35am

Krid

In many ways Prince borrowed from other artists, as already stated above...

James Brown - Sexy MF, The Workm, but also It's gonna be a beutiful night

George Clinton - Scarlet Pussy, to name just the most obvious one; the whole "Exodus" album

Robert Palmer - Cream is Addicted to Love...

Jimi Hendrix - every second guitar solo, facial impressions

Marvin Gaye - EWF - Sly&theFamily Stone, ...

But the amazing thing is - he always made something brand new out of it, pushing the bounderies of music further out (well, at least most of the times... cool )

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 03/14/17 10:44am

ufoclub

avatar

Krid said:

In many ways Prince borrowed from other artists, as already stated above...

Robert Palmer - Cream is Addicted to Love...

always thought "U Got the Look" was his way of taking the vibe of "Addicted to Love" and making it into a Prince song (it also sounds like the same sessions as the music in "Bob George" with the chord progression and guitar improv up front throughout.)

I thought Cream was a riff off of "Bang a Gong" the original... which interestingly was covered by The Power Station with Robert Palmer singing. But their remake took it into different territory in a very cool way.

Check out my first feature film trailer: https://vimeo.com/184919908
Check out my first art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid

VIDEO WORK: http://sharadkantpatel.com
MUSIC: http://www.soundcloud.com/ufoclub1977
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 03/14/17 11:24am

thebanishedone

ufoclub said:

Krid said:

In many ways Prince borrowed from other artists, as already stated above...

Robert Palmer - Cream is Addicted to Love...

always thought "U Got the Look" was his way of taking the vibe of "Addicted to Love" and making it into a Prince song (it also sounds like the same sessions as the music in "Bob George" with the chord progression and guitar improv up front throughout.)

I thought Cream was a riff off of "Bang a Gong" the original... which interestingly was covered by The Power Station with Robert Palmer singing. But their remake took it into different territory in a very cool way.

i think Cream sounds more like one T Rex song

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 2 12>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > how come Prince didn't sue Phill Colins for ripping 1999 for Sussudio