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Thread started 02/15/17 10:07pm

Shawy89

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Do you wish Prince released a final masterpiece?

Not trying to criticize his later albums, I know a lot of Prince folks here dig the HITnRUN albums, Art Offical Age, Plectrum Electrum...

But look at David Bowie, for instance, in 2013 he released The Next Day which was a good album by normal standards, but then before his death he dropped Blackstar which is hands down one of the most brilliant pieces of music released this decade.

I just wish Prince was more careful about the nature of his body of work during the later stages of his career, there's a reason why those albums weren't critically acclaimed or successful in the charts, it's not because he (allegedly) wasn't relevant or old, maybe they weren't that attractive, that stimulating...

I'm sure his vault contains some pretty solid material that can be rightfully and properly compiled into a great album... ya never know...

You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger. - Buddha
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Reply #1 posted 02/15/17 10:31pm

mikeyaddict

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I think we were close to another opus. Some of the new things he was trying and people he was working with. But he may always have been close to this - it rather than consolidate he would spread his work to thinly across a lot of work and collaborations. Still I had a feeling something special about as very close, a couple Of Albums Down the line.

Bowie knew his time was limited - so had time to prepare and put together and record an album to reflect that it would be his last - and what a way to sign off! Would P have done similar had he known? We will never know. And maybe he woulda continued to produce, write, record - if never properly Consolidate.

Big loves everyone. Great topic!
Comin str8 outta Preston...
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Reply #2 posted 02/15/17 10:36pm

jaawwnn

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Prince hadn't been about agreed upon masterpieces since the 80's. I mean, yeah of course if he had to go it would have been great if we went out with a Blackstar but instead he left us with mystery and a messy funk jam released with Mononeon. I like to think we went out playing, as was his way - he had the personal live shows on piano, think of it similar to Miles Davis suddenly doing some greatest hits just before he passed.
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Reply #3 posted 02/15/17 10:44pm

MoBettaBliss

yes

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Reply #4 posted 02/15/17 11:48pm

TrivialPursuit

Probably since he didn't know he was going to up & die in an elevator, I'm sure he'd have put something more final out if he was near his last days.

"Despite everything, no 1 can dictate who u r 2 other people." - Prince |
http://bit.ly/unboxingprince
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Reply #5 posted 02/16/17 12:32am

TheEnglishGent

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It's all objective, I didn't like black star.

RIP sad
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Reply #6 posted 02/16/17 12:45am

njemelbourne

I could be alone in this thought but I consider Art Official Age to be his final masterpiece.

With absolute classics like the incredible Breakdown, Clouds, Way Back, Time and This Could B I think he really put the effort into this album and he was back in form which made his passing even more tragic. It sounded like he was getting his mojo back...

I don't count the Hit and Run's to be anything but compilations BTW...

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Reply #7 posted 02/16/17 1:12am

antonb

We still might, black is the new black was apparently very good, according to the band members who worked on it.
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Reply #8 posted 02/16/17 3:08am

milesb

I don't think Prince coped well with getting older and his later career. As opposed to say Dylan, Young or Bowie. he just couldnt get it straight in his head. Time is a trick and all that. I hope I cope with getting older better than he did, because I was looking to him for some guidance there. Gulp!

My password is what
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Reply #9 posted 02/16/17 3:53am

purplerabbitho
le

Blackstar was super acclaimed. But Hit and Run Phase II and Art Official Age did not get bad reviews either and charted half way decent for a man in his 50's. Bowie's later albums weren't always that successful either.

As for the acclaim for Blackstar, his death gave the album additional importance because a lot of the music seems linked to his knowledge of his upcoming death. Prince's hit and run phase II was not a disliked album but it was a relatively light-hearted and optimistic album.

Shawy89 said:

Not trying to criticize his later albums, I know a lot of Prince folks here dig the HITnRUN albums, Art Offical Age, Plectrum Electrum...

But look at David Bowie, for instance, in 2013 he released The Next Day which was a good album by normal standards, but then before his death he dropped Blackstar which is hands down one of the most brilliant pieces of music released this decade.

I just wish Prince was more careful about the nature of his body of work during the later stages of his career, there's a reason why those albums weren't critically acclaimed or successful in the charts, it's not because he (allegedly) wasn't relevant or old, maybe they weren't that attractive, that stimulating...

I'm sure his vault contains some pretty solid material that can be rightfully and properly compiled into a great album... ya never know...

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Reply #10 posted 02/16/17 3:56am

purplerabbitho
le

njemelbourne said:

I could be alone in this thought but I consider Art Official Age to be his final masterpiece.

With absolute classics like the incredible Breakdown, Clouds, Way Back, Time and This Could B I think he really put the effort into this album and he was back in form which made his passing even more tragic. It sounded like he was getting his mojo back...

I don't count the Hit and Run's to be anything but compilations BTW...

ISn't Sign of the Times also a compilation?

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Reply #11 posted 02/16/17 4:11am

lemoncrush19

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I may be the only one but I consider every single album he did as a masterpiece. of course since he switched musical genres like no one else there might be the ones I love more and those I love less. and there are some that needed their time to grow on me and I to grow on them. but he gave everything he had to give at every moment throughout his whole career.

I just wished ppl could stop complaining and criticizing but focus on all the masterpieces he gave us instead.

the only love there is is the love we make heart
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Reply #12 posted 02/16/17 4:11am

GustavoRibas

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Yes

I like some things about ´Hit and Run´ a lot, but I wish Prince did a truly great record to close his career. I wonder if he would have done things different if, like Bowie, he knew he would be dying soon.

Peace
Gustavo Ribas
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Reply #13 posted 02/16/17 4:20am

donnyenglish

Piano & Mic tour was his final masterpiece. In terms of albums it was AOA. In terms of songs it was Black Muse.
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Reply #14 posted 02/16/17 4:33am

laurarichardso
n

Shawy89 said:

Not trying to criticize his later albums, I know a lot of Prince folks here dig the HITnRUN albums, Art Offical Age, Plectrum Electrum...

But look at David Bowie, for instance, in 2013 he released The Next Day which was a good album by normal standards, but then before his death he dropped Blackstar which is hands down one of the most brilliant pieces of music released this decade.

I just wish Prince was more careful about the nature of his body of work during the later stages of his career, there's a reason why those albums weren't critically acclaimed or successful in the charts, it's not because he (allegedly) wasn't relevant or old, maybe they weren't that attractive, that stimulating...

I'm sure his vault contains some pretty solid material that can be rightfully and properly compiled into a great album... ya never know...

We know of four projects in the can and I think his last couple of Cds were phenomenal. Please stop comparing Prince to David Bowie. Two different artist with two different fan bases.

[Edited 2/16/17 4:35am]

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Reply #15 posted 02/16/17 4:48am

EmmaMcG

Each to their own but I really didn't like Blackstar. At all. So I can't really relate to wanting Prince to release a similar "masterpiece". I was quite happy with Prince's final few releases (apart from Phase One). I know they weren't in the same category as the likes of SOTT or Lovesexy etc but they were really good, if a little too comfortable, releases.

Though it did seem that towards the end he was rediscovering his genius touch with songs like Revelation and When She Comes. Perhaps had he survived long enough to release another album or two we might have had that last "masterpiece". However, given the sheer amount of brilliant music he gave us over the course of his life, it's tough to complain about not getting one more great album.
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Reply #16 posted 02/16/17 4:50am

rogifan

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I haven't listened to Blackstar and I'll admit I never listened to a lot of Bowie over the years. But let's be honest was Prince's music ever really that critically acclaimed by music journalists? Rolling stone did two greatest guitar player lists and on the first one Prince didn't even make the list and on the second one he was in the 30s behind Joey Ramone. It wasn't until after his death that he got the proper acclaim from the music media IMO. I think he always had the respect of his peers though.

Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #17 posted 02/16/17 5:03am

JorisE73

rogifan said:

I haven't listened to Blackstar and I'll admit I never listened to a lot of Bowie over the years. But let's be honest was Prince's music ever really that critically acclaimed by music journalists? Rolling stone did two greatest guitar player lists and on the first one Prince didn't even make the list and on the second one he was in the 30s behind Joey Ramone. It wasn't until after his death that he got the proper acclaim from the music media IMO. I think he always had the respect of his peers though.

Rolling Stone isn't really a serious music magazine now is it?

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Reply #18 posted 02/16/17 5:31am

databank

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Shawy89 said:

Not trying to criticize his later albums, I know a lot of Prince folks here dig the HITnRUN albums, Art Offical Age, Plectrum Electrum...

But look at David Bowie, for instance, in 2013 he released The Next Day which was a good album by normal standards, but then before his death he dropped Blackstar which is hands down one of the most brilliant pieces of music released this decade.

I just wish Prince was more careful about the nature of his body of work during the later stages of his career, there's a reason why those albums weren't critically acclaimed or successful in the charts, it's not because he (allegedly) wasn't relevant or old, maybe they weren't that attractive, that stimulating...

I'm sure his vault contains some pretty solid material that can be rightfully and properly compiled into a great album... ya never know...

I don't think it makes any sense to call Blackstar "one of the most brilliant pieces of music released this decade". It's a great record don't get me wrong, I like it a lot, but I own more than a thousand records that were released since 2010 and I can assure you there's some SERIOUS shit being released every year. At the end of the day Blackstar can and should mostly be judged by Bowie's own standards, because it makes little sense to judge anything but the newest, avant-garde/trendmaking/groundbreaking shit by the standards of its time. Ziggy Stardust can possibly be judged by the standards of its time, Blackstar can't. Blackstar won't be remembered as an influential work from the 2010's, because the new shit will.

.

I believe HitnRun Phase 2 to be a remarkable record, I could write a whole essay about it and I apologize for not doing so, I just happen to have to go eat. My point just being it's not about me liking it or not, I could elaborate. But obviously Hitnrun Phase Two couldn't be 1999 because it's not 1982 anymore.

.

Blackstar's critical acclaim was due in parts to its very nature: a swan song, recorded by one of the most significant artist of his time, who was in full knowledge of his soon-to-be death and who died 2 days after the record got released. Bowie was also an artist who had always been much more cherished by critics than Prince, save maybe in the 80's when Bowie was criticized for "selling out". But mostly he recorded a swan song, which of course is both a moving and admirable artistic move, and an original one (I don't know of any other record being what Blackstar was, though there may be a few I'm not aware of). HitnRun Phase Two had nothing to do with that, with Prince already being embarked on at least 3 or 4 other next records projects when he passed (the suspected Phase Three, Black Is The New Black, the instrumental project with Michael B. Nelson and the piano solo live album). Had Prince been aware of having a lethal disease and had he recorded a swan song album in full knowledge of it, it's likely the world would have raved.

.

Ironically, Prince ended-up selling much less copies of HitnRun Phase 2 than bowie sold copies of Blackstar, BUT many more records overall in 2016 than Bowie, and it's likely there's been more tributes and press articles about Prince than about Bowie, so the question of legacy is not one to worry about.

.

As for the vault, don't worry: awesome shit is gonna come our way. We already know a percentage of it with all those outtakes we have, but the amount of material we only know by title or don't know anything about (mostly the post-95 material) is GIGANTIC. Not all of it is genius I guess, but there's enough to guarantee some mindblowing records, and not just "a" great album of solid material.

.

I think Prince WAS very careful with what he released those last 10 years. People here like to complain about shit but the bottom line is that it was all SOLID. The only flaw I think is that he played it safe. Prince should have gone avant-garde, kept on doing instrumental records or stuff in the vein of The War, or explored many other genres he's hardly touched like reggae, ambient or classical Indian music or whatever. He sure had the skills. But so did Bowie in the end, if we put Blackstar aside because its very nature makes it a one of a kind experiment, Bowie released solid BUT safe stuff after Earthling, which was the last time he really went outside of his safe zone and took an artistic risk. In a way Prince also took a risk with Phase One, BTW. Being produced by Josh who sounded like any new kid on the block was a fucking daring move. I don't think Josh was the best choice (as often Prince would choose whomever he's comfy being around over the most skilled person, same way he'd take Tony M. or Carmen over better rappers back in 91), but at the end of the day Phase One remains a Prince album that sounds like no other Prince albums. I'd rather have had him do more stuff like The War or NEWS, and one could argue NEWS was his last daring experiment, but in a way it was Phase One.

.

I think criticism is easy while art isn't. Most people wonder whether they like a record or not, and possibly whether critics liked it or not and whether it sold well or not. it's a bit shortsighted. The appreciation of a work of art requires a scholar approach that unfortunately many critics lack (most of the critics I read are lame, lazy pieces of writing), it's a very complex process: one needs to wonder first and foremost "what can we assume the artist was trying to achieve and did they succeed at doing it", then the work needs to be put in perspective with the artist's own body of work as a whole, its place in the history of arts and its place in what's going on in arts and society at the moment it got released. And that whole process needs to be addressed with a deep respect, which doesn't mean no criticism, but a benevolent analysis that understands how difficult, complex, frustrating AND exhilarating the process of creation is.

.

This being said I gotta go n eat ^^

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #19 posted 02/16/17 5:34am

thisisreece

Yes, of course. And given little more time, maybe he would have.
Hundalasiliah!
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Reply #20 posted 02/16/17 5:46am

fortuneandsere
ndipity

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Quite simply, you're wrong. Bowie's Blackstar was 7/10 and Prince's Hit 'n' Run was a 9. It never fails to amaze me how often critics err in judgement. Is it because they're not classically trained? confuse


Re Bowie's golden age 69-80 for instance, it's quite obvious to me which albums are below par (3 of them), but I doubt I could get anyone to agree with me. Music taste is subjective I hear you say!? (Well it is if you've got shit for brains!)

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Reply #21 posted 02/16/17 5:52am

Poplife88

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njemelbourne said:

I could be alone in this thought but I consider Art Official Age to be his final masterpiece.

With absolute classics like the incredible Breakdown, Clouds, Way Back, Time and This Could B I think he really put the effort into this album and he was back in form which made his passing even more tragic. It sounded like he was getting his mojo back...

I don't count the Hit and Run's to be anything but compilations BTW...

yeahthat

We're gonna need a bigger boat
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Reply #22 posted 02/16/17 5:52am

Poplife88

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Btw, Blackstar is amazing as well.

We're gonna need a bigger boat
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Reply #23 posted 02/16/17 6:31am

JamesDeslan

No idea why you try to compare bowie & prince albums.

Blackstar was timed, a good story, Bowie knew for more then a year.

I guess Prince would have put out a book, a movie and 7 albums in that time.

Anyway.

I have always been a fan of the stage prince. I really hope there are professional recording of all live shows, i'm still good for the next 10 years.

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Reply #24 posted 02/16/17 6:47am

BoraBora

For me he released a final masterpiece, "Art Official Age".

In my book the two HnR are archival releases more than projected cohesive albums.

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Reply #25 posted 02/16/17 7:15am

partyup77

Shawy89 said:

Not trying to criticize his later albums, I know a lot of Prince folks here dig the HITnRUN albums, Art Offical Age, Plectrum Electrum...

But look at David Bowie, for instance, in 2013 he released The Next Day which was a good album by normal standards, but then before his death he dropped Blackstar which is hands down one of the most brilliant pieces of music released this decade.

I just wish Prince was more careful about the nature of his body of work during the later stages of his career, there's a reason why those albums weren't critically acclaimed or successful in the charts, it's not because he (allegedly) wasn't relevant or old, maybe they weren't that attractive, that stimulating...

I'm sure his vault contains some pretty solid material that can be rightfully and properly compiled into a great album... ya never know...

I love Blackstar. It is amazing. But at the same time, it brings me down a bit - thinking about Bowie's awareness that it was going to be his last album as he worked on it.

I dont believe that Prince wanted to think about his own death -- he didnt want to plan to die, evident by his lack of having a will. In that sense, I'm glad Prince does not have his version of Blackstar. I wouldn't want to listen to a Prince album where he knew it was his last -- it would be entirely too depressing as Prince's music touched me very deeply.

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Reply #26 posted 02/16/17 7:22am

TKO

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Art Official Age is a masterpiece.

And i love Hit N Run albums, maybe AOA would be a better close to his career. But i'm happy with everything he released before leaving us.

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Reply #27 posted 02/16/17 7:23am

TKO

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Art Official Age is a masterpiece.

And i love Hit N Run albums, maybe AOA would be a better close to his career. But i'm happy with everything he released before leaving us.

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Reply #28 posted 02/16/17 8:56am

rainbowchild

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TKO said:

Art Official Age is a masterpiece.



And i love Hit N Run albums, maybe AOA would be a better close to his career. But i'm happy with everything he released before leaving us.



Indeed. Love his last 3 albums-- AOA, HNR 1&2! Would have loved to see him perform songs from those albums live!
"Just like the sun, the Rainbow Children rise."

"Am I black or white? Am I straight or gay?"

"We had fun, didn't we?"
-Prince (1958-2016) 4ever in my life
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Reply #29 posted 02/16/17 9:05am

mbdtyler

In all fairness, Bowie knew he was close to the end and that allowed him to put everything he had into making one last masterpiece. Even if Bowie wouldn't have passed away right after its release, Blackstar still would have been a fantastic set of music, but crafting it into his farewell to the world elevated it into a beautiful and bittersweet work of art.

I can only imagine what Prince would've created if he had been in Bowie's shoes

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