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Thread started 11/14/16 10:48pm

luv4u

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Roc Nation, Tidal File Court Papers Claiming Exclusive Streaming Rights to Prince's Catalog

Uhhh ohhh here we goooo ..........



Earlier this month on Nov. 2, Universal Music Publishing Group announced it had won the bidding war to become the exclusive worldwide publishing administrator for Prince's entire song catalog -- released and unreleased -- effective immediately, putting to bed one of the biggest question marks regarding the legend's music since his unexpected death on April 21. But in new paperwork filed Friday (Nov. 11) in Minnesota district court and reviewed by Billboard, representatives for Roc Nation claim that a pre-existing contract granted Jay Z's streaming service Tidal exclusive streaming distribution rights to Prince's catalog, and is asking the court to allow its claim to stand and requesting "access to information concerning Bremer Trust's business dealings in its capacity as Special Administrator" for the estate.



Click on link for more details:

http://www.billboard.com/...ce=twitter



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Reply #1 posted 11/14/16 10:50pm

ForeverPaisley

omg They are greedy litle mongrels! Likely the deal they MIGHT have had was existing albums at the time of the deal. hmph!

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Reply #2 posted 11/15/16 12:21am

antonb

Well you can't blame them really.Prince did make it clear in the media he was dealing with tidal.Some kind of deal with them must have been reached. They are fighting for there rights, Your just worried it's going to delay opening the vault. biggrin
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Reply #3 posted 11/15/16 2:38am

EmmaMcG

antonb said:

Well you can't blame them really.Prince did make it clear in the media he was dealing with tidal.Some kind of deal with them must have been reached. They are fighting for there rights, Your just worried it's going to delay opening the vault. biggrin


Well that just about sums up my feelings on the matter...
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Reply #4 posted 11/15/16 7:08am

OperatingTheta
n

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I'd trust Jay-Z and Tidal with Prince's music more than Bremer and Tyka Nelson.

Prince trusted Tidal - he was still working with them and delivering exclusive material right up to the week of his passing.

Prince however, did not approve of anyone running the Estate now, nor the recent deal with Universal.

If the Estates deal with Universal infringes on Prince's pre-existing working telationship with Tidal, Tidal has every reason to act.
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Reply #5 posted 11/15/16 7:17am

donnyenglish

The problem is that the contract was probably oral. Oral contracts are enforceable and I'm sure JayZ can prove that one existed. It is not hard to establish that the course of conduct by Prince and Tidal demonstates that there was an agreement, even if it was not in writing. The problem is that Prince is dead. (I have to pause everytime I write that dreaded "dead" word, damn). So the heirs are in control of his property and they can modify or terminate that contract, especially since I'm sure Prince did not agree to any specified length of time for the deal. The other problem is that Tidal released several additional albums after his death. While he may have had permission to do that if he were still alive, he was not alive and that "property" became property of the Trust. Tidal will probably lose this one and will have to pay a lot of money. I think it is a shame because I think we all know that Prince would not want his Estate to take Tidal down. My final thought is that Prince made his music for us. He didn't make it for Bremer. He didn't really make it for his Estate. He made it for us. We now "own" it in a spiritual sense and none of us care who makes a penny from his music. Hopefully, the parties involved figure this out to ensure that Prince's fans have access to his beautiful music.

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Reply #6 posted 11/15/16 7:28am

antonb

If it was just a handshake, I will bare my backside on my town hall steps! Seriously though, it just seems like the Estate (whoever they are), are trying to void whatever deal Prince made with tidal, so they can put out the music anywhere to make more money. That's how it looks to me anyhow. But I'm not the brightest! (don't answer that!)
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Reply #7 posted 11/15/16 7:29am

namepeace

donnyenglish said:

The problem is that the contract was probably oral. Oral contracts are enforceable and I'm sure JayZ can prove that one existed. It is not hard to establish that the course of conduct by Prince and Tidal demonstates that there was an agreement, even if it was not in writing. The problem is that Prince is dead. (I have to pause everytime I write that dreaded "dead" word, damn). So the heirs are in control of his property and they can modify or terminate that contract, especially since I'm sure Prince did not agree to any specified length of time for the deal.

You're right. The "course of conduct" is evidence of an agreement, but without a written agreement, or estate documents, it remains to be seen whether Tidal can enforce the agreement long-term, as the estate now has control of the assets.


The other problem is that Tidal released several additional albums after his death. While he may have had permission to do that if he were still alive, he was not alive and that "property" became property of the Trust. Tidal will probably lose this one and will have to pay a lot of money. I think it is a shame because I think we all know that Prince would not want his Estate to take Tidal down.

True. Arguably, Tidal could have done so in good faith prior to the estate being opened, but now that the trust is in place, in the absence of a written agreement, Tidal is likely out of luck. I don't know whether Tidal would have to pay damages if the Trust failed to issue a cease and desist, or if Tidal continued to stream music prior to the "superseding" agreement with Universal.

My final thought is that Prince made his music for us. He didn't make it for Bremer. He didn't really make it for his Estate. He made it for us. We now "own" it in a spiritual sense and none of us care who makes a penny from his music. Hopefully, the parties involved figure this out to ensure that Prince's fans have access to his beautiful music.


Prince was highly possessive of his work during his lifetime. But everyone has incentive to curate his work carefully and share it as freely as possible.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #8 posted 11/15/16 7:35am

InwardJim

I've read elsewhere that 19 of the albums TIDAL added after P's death may not actually have been included in that initial deal. Prince did make his partnership with TIDAL known, but likely also as a much needed PR boost for TIDAL. It very likely wasn't in perpetuity, nor all-inclusive. Remember the deal with Kobalt that Prince promoted in the press and statements but never actually went anywhere?

I think TIDAL's financial troubles and realizing that they could lose one of their exclusives, they might have a lot of people duck out and lose a hefty monthly does of cash. The problem with oral agreements is that unless there is an impartial observer witness to the entire affair, it's hard to believe because there has been quite the history of businesses saying that something happened that is plausible but not proveable.

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Reply #9 posted 11/15/16 7:36am

paisleypearl

I hope this doesn't take years to figure out.
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Reply #10 posted 11/15/16 9:27am

luxegolightly

I'm no attorney but the waters seem pretty muddy since Tidal has the albums. If Prince only agreed to release some music on the platform, why would they have access to everything? Even if it was an oral agreement and a handshake, Jay Z clearly didn't break into the vault and steal the masters. This is nothing but another cash grab by the family because they want to offer the music to every streaming service possible.
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Reply #11 posted 11/15/16 9:39am

laurarichardso
n

luxegolightly said:

I'm no attorney but the waters seem pretty muddy since Tidal has the albums. If Prince only agreed to release some music on the platform, why would they have access to everything? Even if it was an oral agreement and a handshake, Jay Z clearly didn't break into the vault and steal the masters. This is nothing but another cash grab by the family because they want to offer the music to every streaming service possible.

I think the family wants to go with Jay Z they went to New York to meet with him and at this point they have no say. They will have a say once the estate has been settled.

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Reply #12 posted 11/15/16 9:42am

laurarichardso
n

InwardJim said:

I've read elsewhere that 19 of the albums TIDAL added after P's death may not actually have been included in that initial deal. Prince did make his partnership with TIDAL known, but likely also as a much needed PR boost for TIDAL. It very likely wasn't in perpetuity, nor all-inclusive. Remember the deal with Kobalt that Prince promoted in the press and statements but never actually went anywhere?

I think TIDAL's financial troubles and realizing that they could lose one of their exclusives, they might have a lot of people duck out and lose a hefty monthly does of cash. The problem with oral agreements is that unless there is an impartial observer witness to the entire affair, it's hard to believe because there has been quite the history of businesses saying that something happened that is plausible but not proveable.

Are you guys reading the court docs? Besides oral agreements Tidal is saying they have a Equity Term Agreement and they spell out what that agreement states in the claim. They are saying the deal was for 5 years and that the material is only exclusive for 90 days. They are looking for 2 albums of material. Why does Breamer not want to fulfill that agreement and then move on from there.

If Prince did not want them to have the music why would he have given it to them to stream?

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Reply #13 posted 11/15/16 9:45am

laurarichardso
n

antonb said:

If it was just a handshake, I will bare my backside on my town hall steps! Seriously though, it just seems like the Estate (whoever they are), are trying to void whatever deal Prince made with tidal, so they can put out the music anywhere to make more money. That's how it looks to me anyhow. But I'm not the brightest! (don't answer that!)

I think you are correct. I don't think it was all a handshake. The Estate just wants to void the deal despite the fact that the music will only bring in pennies a stream. I just hope when this is over the family takes over and continues to run NPG records and puts out music away from the industry. Which loves to give music away for pennies.

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Reply #14 posted 11/15/16 10:07am

malbena

It'd be nice to credit the orger whose name escapes me and who posted this information on a previous thread. I understand the thread needed to be investigated before pursuing follow up conversation but it is a matter of fairness to give him credit so as not to be confused on ownership of this latest information.

As for this news, it is likely to take as long as prior legal dispute. I'm afraid we won't know more for a while. I'd like Jay-Z to win as opposed to Universal. In several interviews, Prince made it clear he was not fond of Universal while supporting Tidal later on.

This is my normal life. These marital standards cannot be recreated with money.
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Reply #15 posted 11/15/16 10:58am

wonderboy

Don't forget that the estate is working against a tight clock. The IRS is expecting a big payment just after the first of the year. If it's not paid, they will begin ceassing assets. They will aim for the largest ones first which is likely the back catalog.

We need this process to quickly proceed to close so that monies can be earned and taxes paid on time.

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Reply #16 posted 11/15/16 10:59am

laurarichardso
n

malbena said:

It'd be nice to credit the orger whose name escapes me and who posted this information on a previous thread. I understand the thread needed to be investigated before pursuing follow up conversation but it is a matter of fairness to give him credit so as not to be confused on ownership of this latest information.



As for this news, it is likely to take as long as prior legal dispute. I'm afraid we won't know more for a while. I'd like Jay-Z to win as opposed to Universal. In several interviews, Prince made it clear he was not fond of Universal while supporting Tidal later on.


// Yes, complain about Universal and that is why I am so puzzled as to why the estate would go back with them. I think something shady us going with Universal.
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Reply #17 posted 11/15/16 11:03am

kingricefan

If there was a contract between Prince and Tidal, then it needs to be honored. If it's only for five years then what's the big deal? Tidal (I think) illegally added those other albums after Prince passed away. I think most of the fans are more concerned about what music is in the Vault and when it's going to be made available to us. I already have all of Prince's albums (as most of us here probably do) so this Tidal thing is really not going to affect me personally (unless they're going to claim that they have the rights to anything in the Vault). I don't get my music from any type of streaming services now and I probably won't in the future. The only time I purchased downloads was when the NPG Music Club was online and offering albums for purchase. At least then I knew that the money was going directly into Prince's pocket and not being skimmed off to line some record company mogul's pocket......

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Reply #18 posted 11/15/16 11:08am

laurarichardso
n

wonderboy said:

Don't forget that the estate is working against a tight clock. The IRS is expecting a big payment just after the first of the year. If it's not paid, they will begin ceassing assets. They will aim for the largest ones first which is likely the back catalog.



We need this process to quickly proceed to close so that monies can be earned and taxes paid on time.


The government is not going to immediatly seize anything. The govt takes payment plans or you can pay quarterly. As long as the govt knows money is coming in they will work with you. People get stuff seized when they are ignoring numerous warnings or disputing. If the estate was worried they would have taken the 40 million from Tidal to stream vault material because I doubt they are going to get 40 million from each streaming services especially if they think the estate is disparate for money.
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Reply #19 posted 11/15/16 11:10am

laurarichardso
n

kingricefan said:

If there was a contract between Prince and Tidal, then it needs to be honored. If it's only for five years then what's the big deal? Tidal (I think) illegally added those other albums after Prince passed away. I think most of the fans are more concerned about what music is in the Vault and when it's going to be made available to us. I already have all of Prince's albums (as most of us here probably do) so this Tidal thing is really not going to affect me personally (unless they're going to claim that they have the rights to anything in the Vault). I don't get my music from any type of streaming services now and I probably won't in the future. The only time I purchased downloads was when the NPG Music Club was online and offering albums for purchase. At least then I knew that the money was going directly into Prince's pocket and not being skimmed off to line some record company mogul's pocket.....


// I don't get it either 5 years and only exclusive for 90 days.
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Reply #20 posted 11/15/16 11:11am

nayroo2002

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Like Wisconsin shares the Packers, WE should take stock in Prince...

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we all need 2 b friends"
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Reply #21 posted 11/15/16 12:29pm

LIBRA

A couple of things.

1.) Prince died. Any "DEAL" is null and void unless it is written in the will. No will no "Deal."

2.) Since there is no will it would have to be a written contract. No contract and we all know why.

3.) Now that prince is dead and there is no will nor contract it will have to be a NEW contract with his estate.

4.) Tital is in $$ trouble. They have not paid some artist per reports. Yes It is aslo said that Tital uploaded 19 Albums AFTER he died. They do not have a right to do so.

It is also said that they never paid Prince $750,000 for his last CD.

I see this as their way to get some cash and pay off some debt.

But realistically they do NOT have a shot at this.

link:

https://www.digitalmusicn...-catalog/

[Edited 11/15/16 12:30pm]

Everybody's lookin 4 the ladder, it's in the garage
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Reply #22 posted 11/15/16 2:15pm

laurarichardso
n

LIBRA said:

A couple of things.



1.) Prince died. Any "DEAL" is null and void unless it is written in the will. No will no "Deal."



2.) Since there is no will it would have to be a written contract. No contract and we all know why.



3.) Now that prince is dead and there is no will nor contract it will have to be a NEW contract with his estate.



4.) Tital is in $$ trouble. They have not paid some artist per reports. Yes It is aslo said that Tital uploaded 19 Albums AFTER he died. They do not have a right to do so.



It is also said that they never paid Prince $750,000 for his last CD.



I see this as their way to get some cash and pay off some debt.



But realistically they do NOT have a shot at this.




link:




https://www.digitalmusicn...-catalog/



[Edited 11/15/16 12:30pm]


If you have a claim you can file with the court. Monies and contracts do not end because people die. Tidal is saying that they have an agreement and the court will look at their claims and decide.
[Edited 11/15/16 14:16pm]
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Reply #23 posted 11/15/16 3:18pm

luxegolightly

This quote from the article stuck out the most to me:

"...and that the estate has "not found proof" that the advance, which TMZ notes as $750,000, was paid."

With the way Prince was about his money and his art I find it hard to believe that he gave Tidal anything without some money changing hands. I don't know if they need to start digging in the sand in the Turks and Caicos or knocking holes in the walls at PP, but I'm not buying it until Tidal fails to produce proof that they paid him.
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Reply #24 posted 11/15/16 3:39pm

Lovejunky

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luxegolightly said:

This quote from the article stuck out the most to me: "...and that the estate has "not found proof" that the advance, which TMZ notes as $750,000, was paid." With the way Prince was about his money and his art I find it hard to believe that he gave Tidal anything without some money changing hands. I don't know if they need to start digging in the sand in the Turks and Caicos or knocking holes in the walls at PP, but I'm not buying it until Tidal fails to produce proof that they paid him.

May very well have been a cash deal..Prince bought houses with Cash...asked for Cash at concerts etc...Gave Cash Bonuse...he Liked Cash..

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http://prince.org/msg/15/445991
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Reply #25 posted 11/15/16 3:48pm

AnonymousFan

I sincerely hope Tidal gets these streaming rights.
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Reply #26 posted 11/15/16 5:23pm

rogifan

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I'm sorry but making his music exclusive to Tidal is dumb. The majority of paying streaming music consumers use other services. These consumers are not going to sign up with Tidal just to get Prince music. Renting music is the future whether Prince agreed with it or not. If the Estate/Family want a whole new generation to experience Prince's music they'll make it available on as many platforms as possible. Also we know Tidal is in financial trouble. So what happens if Apple, Google or Amazon snatch them up? Prince music never becomes available online again? That would be a disaster.
Paisley Park is in your heart
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Reply #27 posted 11/15/16 6:02pm

luvsexy4all

maybe all this is publicity...

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Reply #28 posted 11/15/16 7:26pm

laurarichardso
n

rogifan said:

I'm sorry but making his music exclusive to Tidal is dumb. The majority of paying streaming music consumers use other services. These consumers are not going to sign up with Tidal just to get Prince music. Renting music is the future whether Prince agreed with it or not. If the Estate/Family want a whole new generation to experience Prince's music they'll make it available on as many platforms as possible. Also we know Tidal is in financial trouble. So what happens if Apple, Google or Amazon snatch them up? Prince music never becomes available online again? That would be a disaster.

-- Those services will pay a penny a stream. The family will not get upfront money.
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Reply #29 posted 11/15/16 7:52pm

steakfinger

OperatingThetan said:

Prince however, did not approve of anyone running the Estate now, nor the recent deal with Universal.

If he actually cared (which it doesn't seem he did), then he was a [Snip - luv4u] and his [Snip - luv4u] should've left a will. End of story.

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