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Thread started 10/07/18 7:54am

PennyPurple

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Vote!!

We can not change things if we don't vote.

This is from Dan Rather:

Are you angry? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Are you despondent? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Do you believe the brave women and men who have come forward with stories of sexual violence? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Do you worry about injustice and inequality? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Do you believe parents should not be separated from their children? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Do you believe in science, and reason, and facts? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Do you believe in a free and independent press? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Do you believe a woman should have control of her own body? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Do you believe in the rule of law? The separation of church and state? That people should be free to love whom they want to love? Public education? Accountability? Do you care about a living wage? The people of Puerto Rico?Climate change? A level playing field? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Do I sound like a broken record? VOTE, and mobilize others to VOTE.

Elections have consequences, but that goes BOTH ways.

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Reply #1 posted 10/07/18 8:45am

NorthC

Looks like a Mr. Know-it-all who's preaching to the converted.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #2 posted 10/07/18 8:51am

hausofmoi7

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Firstly, Not everyone can even vote. It’s a privilege to be able to vote.

Secondly, America is not a democracy, It’s representative republic.
Your electoral college almost makes voting irrelevant.

Thirdly, not only is third party voting frowned upon.
Dr Jill Stein was literally tied up and held hostage so she couldn’t attend a presidential debate in 2008.
As a result the discourse is myopic and limited for most people.


Yelling at people to vote when what I listed above is occurring is premature.



.
[Edited 10/7/18 9:11am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #3 posted 10/07/18 9:11am

PennyPurple

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If we want things to change, we need to vote.

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Reply #4 posted 10/07/18 9:12am

PennyPurple

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NorthC said:

Looks like a Mr. Know-it-all who's preaching to the converted.

You can't even vote here in our elections. lol

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Reply #5 posted 10/07/18 9:14am

PennyPurple

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hausofmoi7 said:

Firstly, Not everyone can even vote. It’s a privilege to be able to vote. Secondly, America is not a democracy, It’s representative republic. Your electoral college almost makes voting irrelevant. Thirdly, not only is third party voting frowned upon. Dr Jill Stein was literally tied up and held hostage so she couldn’t attend a presidential debate in 2008. As a result the discourse is myopic and limited for most people. Yelling at people to vote when what I listed above is occurring is premature. . [Edited 10/7/18 9:11am]

You can't vote here either. lol

We aren't voting for President so the electoral college doesn't come into play here in the Nov. elections. But depending on how we vote in these elections will help decide the electorial vote.

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Reply #6 posted 10/07/18 9:14am

hausofmoi7

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PennyPurple said:

If we want things to change, we need to vote.


Agree.
Not everyone is allowed to vote though.
Who are you talking to when you say this?
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #7 posted 10/07/18 9:15am

PennyPurple

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hausofmoi7 said:

PennyPurple said:

If we want things to change, we need to vote.

Agree. Not everyone is allowed to vote though. Who are you talking to when you say this?

Those of us in America who can vote.

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Reply #8 posted 10/07/18 9:16am

hausofmoi7

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PennyPurple said:[quote]



hausofmoi7 said:


Firstly, Not everyone can even vote. It’s a privilege to be able to vote. Secondly, America is not a democracy, It’s representative republic. Your electoral college almost makes voting irrelevant. Thirdly, not only is third party voting frowned upon. Dr Jill Stein was literally tied up and held hostage so she couldn’t attend a presidential debate in 2008. As a result the discourse is myopic and limited for most people. Yelling at people to vote when what I listed above is occurring is premature. . [Edited 10/7/18 9:11am]

You can't vote here either. lol



As do many people in your own country.
lol
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #9 posted 10/07/18 9:18am

hausofmoi7

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PennyPurple said:



hausofmoi7 said:


Firstly, Not everyone can even vote. It’s a privilege to be able to vote. Secondly, America is not a democracy, It’s representative republic. Your electoral college almost makes voting irrelevant. Thirdly, not only is third party voting frowned upon. Dr Jill Stein was literally tied up and held hostage so she couldn’t attend a presidential debate in 2008. As a result the discourse is myopic and limited for most people. Yelling at people to vote when what I listed above is occurring is premature. . [Edited 10/7/18 9:11am]

You can't vote here either. lol


We aren't voting for President so the electoral college doesn't come into play here in the Nov. elections. But depending on how we vote in these elections will help decide the electorial vote.



As do many people in your own country.
lol
[Edited 10/7/18 9:19am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #10 posted 10/07/18 9:20am

PennyPurple

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As do many people in my own country, what?

I know I can't vote in your country, can you even vote in your own country? lol

I'm talking about America. We have a huge election in a couple of weeks. We all (Americans) need to get out and vote and make sure other people get out and vote.

hausofmoi7 said:



You can't vote here either. lol

As do many people in your own country. lol

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Reply #11 posted 10/07/18 9:27am

hausofmoi7

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PennyPurple said:

As do many people in my own country, what?


I know I can't vote in your country, can you even vote in your own country? lol


I'm talking about America. We have a huge election in a couple of weeks. We all (Americans) need to get out and vote and make sure other people get out and vote.



hausofmoi7 said:







You can't vote here either. lol


As do many people in your own country. lol




I agree voting is important.
I don’t disagree.

That wasn’t what I was pointing out.
I made a case for actual democracy.
So voting can actually be politically effective and reflective of the majority.



.
[Edited 10/7/18 9:29am]
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #12 posted 10/07/18 9:29am

PennyPurple

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hausofmoi7 said:

PennyPurple said:

As do many people in my own country, what?

I know I can't vote in your country, can you even vote in your own country? lol

I'm talking about America. We have a huge election in a couple of weeks. We all (Americans) need to get out and vote and make sure other people get out and vote.

I agree voting is important. I don’t disagree. That wasn’t what I was pointing out.

All I'm saying is, we can bitch and bitch about what is going on in the US, but instead of bitching we can do something about it and vote. Instead of staying home complaining, we need to try to change it by voting!

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Reply #13 posted 10/07/18 9:37am

hausofmoi7

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PennyPurple said:



hausofmoi7 said:


PennyPurple said:

If we want things to change, we need to vote.



Agree. Not everyone is allowed to vote though. Who are you talking to when you say this?

Those of us in America who can vote.


Ok, I see.
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #14 posted 10/07/18 9:43am

NorthC

PennyPurple said:



hausofmoi7 said:


PennyPurple said:

If we want things to change, we need to vote.



Agree. Not everyone is allowed to vote though. Who are you talking to when you say this?

Those of us in America who can vote.


Oh, that Prince guy. Why did he have to break through internationally? Now we've got people who aren't from the US joining discussions over here! America first!!! flag party
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #15 posted 10/07/18 9:45am

poppys

Why are people with no vote dumping on Penny? She started a vote thread. Rodeo and others talk about it all the time.

Nitpicking - we have plenty of that here in P&R already, especially towards women right now.

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Reply #16 posted 10/07/18 9:52am

PennyPurple

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When my brothers and I were growing up, as soon as we were of age, my step-dad made sure we registered to vote. And he made sure we voted. Our neighbor lady was the one who obtained our signatures when we came in to vote. My step-dad would go in later in the evening to vote and the neighbor lady told him, I seen all the kids today except for John. When he came home he asked us all if we voted, and we all told him yes, even John....well of course he knew John didn't vote and layed into him about not voting then lying about it.


In our household voting was instilled in us that it was very important.

We can't change anything if we don't vote.

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Reply #17 posted 10/07/18 9:55am

PennyPurple

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NorthC said:

PennyPurple said:

Those of us in America who can vote.

Oh, that Prince guy. Why did he have to break through internationally? Now we've got people who aren't from the US joining discussions over here! America first!!! flag party

I'm talking about voting in the United States. Why is it an argument with you, when you don't even live here? You can't even vote here. You have no say in politics in the United States.

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Reply #18 posted 10/07/18 9:55am

poppys

NorthC said:

PennyPurple said:

Those of us in America who can vote.


Oh, that Prince guy. Why did he have to break through internationally? Now we've got people who aren't from the US joining discussions over here! America first!!! flag party


Prince's USA activism, especially in the last few years with Black Lives Matter and the Freddie Gray protest song Baltimore was obviously on his front burner.

Yeah, what a stupid idea to vote unless the system is perfect. Prince, of all people, would want us to work with what we got. That's exactly how he broke through internationally. flag

It's not that you're joining the discussions, it's what you are saying and how you're mocking Penny's point. Spare us, please.

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Reply #19 posted 10/07/18 10:12am

NorthC

PennyPurple said:



NorthC said:


PennyPurple said:


Those of us in America who can vote.



Oh, that Prince guy. Why did he have to break through internationally? Now we've got people who aren't from the US joining discussions over here! America first!!! flag party

I'm talking about voting in the United States. Why is it an argument with you, when you don't even live here? You can't even vote here. You have no say in politics in the United States.


Then you should change the title of your thread to: "Americans: Vote!" That way, everybody will know that the prejudice we have in Europe that Americans think their own country is the centre of the world, may not be a prejudice at all, but reality.
I think you're raising a subject that's worthy of discussion here (why are so many people not voting?), but that you're not interested in other people's opinions.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #20 posted 10/07/18 10:19am

hausofmoi7

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PennyPurple said:



hausofmoi7 said:


PennyPurple said:

If we want things to change, we need to vote.



Agree. Not everyone is allowed to vote though. Who are you talking to when you say this?

Those of us in America who can vote.


The laws that keep poor people of color from voting in the US
https://www.researchgate....-in-the-us
The world has been focused on the 2016 election in the United States. While the election contest between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton has generated significant interest, attention has once again come on the question of whether all Americans can equally participate in the voting process. Many worry that voting rules unnecessarily exclude the poor, and in particular poor African Americans and Latino Americans. Some see the recent rules concerning voter identification and old rules regarding felon disenfranchisement as ways of effectively keeping poor citizens of color from voting.

They claim these rules, though they are not discriminatory on their face, put the ability to participate in the political process beyond the reach of poor Blacks and Latinos. Such exclusion is often referred to as voter suppression, and the concern is that voters who otherwise ought to be able to vote cannot, and thus the electorate is not representative, and in extreme cases, election results end up being skewed.

To understand this, it is important to know first that individual states run elections in the United States. Moreover, unlike other countries that provide for automatic voter registration, readily available identification cards, or public holidays to encourage voting, every state in the US requires a citizen register with the state in order to vote, and that Election Day takes place during a work day. Political science research has shown that these facts make voting in the United States difficult.

Yet some states make voting even more difficult. To register, a citizen must prove their identity, their residency, and in some states, their status as a citizen before they can vote. A number of states have made these registration requirements more onerous by limiting the types of identification documents that support voter registration. Also, over half of the states require a state-issued photographic identification card to prove a voter’s identity. Over a dozen states make such photo-id requirements the near exclusive way of proving voter eligibility. These states (which are mostly in the control of the Republican Party) have justified these laws on claims of needing to protect the electoral process from the threat of fraud due to voters impersonating other registered voters. Yet, research has shown that such voter fraud doesn’t exist.
“Obtaining the supporting documents can be too expensive for poor voters.”


Opponents of these “photo-id laws” worry that these rules disproportionately make it more difficult for poor minority voters to participate in the franchise. Political science research suggests that these rules form a strong disincentive to political participation for those who are socioeconomically disadvantaged. As I have argued in my own research, obtaining the supporting documents can be too expensive for poor voters.

An individual must prove they are entitled to an identification card. To do so, they must they must obtain (at their own expense) a certified copy of their birth certificate, their marriage license, and all other relevant documents necessary to prove their legal identity and their citizenship. States are under no obligation to issue these documents for free. Additionally, most persons must take time away from work (with the lost wages that come with time off) to obtain their identification card from an issuing agency (usually the agency that issues driving licenses).

The poorest Blacks and Latinos live in largely segregated communities in rural parts of the United States due to the ramifications of racial segregation policies of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. Governmental services in these areas are sparse compared to those in more affluent areas. For the poor areas, the closest identity issuing agency is often quite distant from their homes. This requires added expense just to get to the office since many of these citizens do not have an automobile or other ready access to transportation. And to compound all these other difficulties, the issuing agencies in the poorest areas of the country are often only open two to three times a week (to minimize governmental costs), creating additional timing costs for obtaining even the most basic government-issued identity card.

While precise numbers as to how many are affected by these laws are difficult to obtain, the Brennan Center for Justice has stated that these stringent voter identification requirements will disenfranchise thousands, including low-income citizens, the elderly, and especially minorities. Indeed, according to recent US Census figures, over 21 million citizens do not possess appropriate government-issued photo ID, and most of these people are racial minorities. Because of this, opponents of these photo-id laws claim that they are racially discriminatory.
“The Sentencing Project estimates that 5.8 million Americans are barred from participating in elections due to having a felony conviction.”


Additionally, 48 of the 50 states continue to enforce some form of felon disenfranchisement laws. While these laws vary, the rules disqualify otherwise eligible voters due to having been convicted of a crime. The rules are ancient in origin, and were used in the nineteenth century in the Jim Crow south to shut out African American voters. And yet they continue today.

Many US states require ex-felons who are free from punishment to nonetheless go through a detailed and difficult process of restoring their voting. The Sentencing Project estimates that 5.8 million Americans are barred from participating in elections due to having a felony conviction. And nearly 2.2 million black citizens – or nearly one in 13 African-American adults – are banned from voting because of these laws. This ratio rises to one in five African American bared by felon disenfranchisement laws in Florida, Kentucky, and Virginia.

The cumulative effect of these two policies is that a political underclass continues to exist in the United States. These policies affect the poor generally, but their particular impact on poor people of color further marginalizes an already historically marginalized political community, and it is an affront to the civil rights movement that sought to make good on the promise of political equality for all citizens.
"It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non-violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection" – Lesley Hazleton on the first muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #21 posted 10/07/18 10:29am

poppys


^^ I get your point haus, but you already have a thread started about this right now - thread bleed. You are slamming Penny's thread for no reason. She is talking about the upcoming vote here in November. She is concerned as are many of us.

Are you gonna drag Rudyard Kipling in here next?

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Reply #22 posted 10/07/18 10:43am

2freaky4church
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OnlyNda, Furry, Skipper, stay home.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #23 posted 10/07/18 10:52am

PennyPurple

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2freaky4church1 said:

OnlyNda, Furry, Skipper, stay home.

lol

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Reply #24 posted 10/07/18 11:11am

PennyPurple

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hausofmoi7 said:



The laws that keep poor people of color from voting in the US https://www.researchgate....-in-the-us The world has been focused on the 2016 election in the United States. While the election contest between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton has generated significant interest, attention has once again come on the question of whether all Americans can equally participate in the voting process. Many worry that voting rules unnecessarily exclude the poor, and in particular poor African Americans and Latino Americans. Some see the recent rules concerning voter identification and old rules regarding felon disenfranchisement as ways of effectively keeping poor citizens of color from voting. They claim these rules, though they are not discriminatory on their face, put the ability to participate in the political process beyond the reach of poor Blacks and Latinos. Such exclusion is often referred to as voter suppression, and the concern is that voters who otherwise ought to be able to vote cannot, and thus the electorate is not representative, and in extreme cases, election results end up being skewed. To understand this, it is important to know first that individual states run elections in the United States. Moreover, unlike other countries that provide for automatic voter registration, readily available identification cards, or public holidays to encourage voting, every state in the US requires a citizen register with the state in order to vote, and that Election Day takes place during a work day. Political science research has shown that these facts make voting in the United States difficult. Yet some states make voting even more difficult. To register, a citizen must prove their identity, their residency, and in some states, their status as a citizen before they can vote. A number of states have made these registration requirements more onerous by limiting the types of identification documents that support voter registration. Also, over half of the states require a state-issued photographic identification card to prove a voter’s identity. Over a dozen states make such photo-id requirements the near exclusive way of proving voter eligibility. These states (which are mostly in the control of the Republican Party) have justified these laws on claims of needing to protect the electoral process from the threat of fraud due to voters impersonating other registered voters. Yet, research has shown that such voter fraud doesn’t exist. “Obtaining the supporting documents can be too expensive for poor voters.” Opponents of these “photo-id laws” worry that these rules disproportionately make it more difficult for poor minority voters to participate in the franchise. Political science research suggests that these rules form a strong disincentive to political participation for those who are socioeconomically disadvantaged. As I have argued in my own research, obtaining the supporting documents can be too expensive for poor voters. An individual must prove they are entitled to an identification card. To do so, they must they must obtain (at their own expense) a certified copy of their birth certificate, their marriage license, and all other relevant documents necessary to prove their legal identity and their citizenship. States are under no obligation to issue these documents for free. Additionally, most persons must take time away from work (with the lost wages that come with time off) to obtain their identification card from an issuing agency (usually the agency that issues driving licenses). The poorest Blacks and Latinos live in largely segregated communities in rural parts of the United States due to the ramifications of racial segregation policies of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. Governmental services in these areas are sparse compared to those in more affluent areas. For the poor areas, the closest identity issuing agency is often quite distant from their homes. This requires added expense just to get to the office since many of these citizens do not have an automobile or other ready access to transportation. And to compound all these other difficulties, the issuing agencies in the poorest areas of the country are often only open two to three times a week (to minimize governmental costs), creating additional timing costs for obtaining even the most basic government-issued identity card. While precise numbers as to how many are affected by these laws are difficult to obtain, the Brennan Center for Justice has stated that these stringent voter identification requirements will disenfranchise thousands, including low-income citizens, the elderly, and especially minorities. Indeed, according to recent US Census figures, over 21 million citizens do not possess appropriate government-issued photo ID, and most of these people are racial minorities. Because of this, opponents of these photo-id laws claim that they are racially discriminatory. “The Sentencing Project estimates that 5.8 million Americans are barred from participating in elections due to having a felony conviction.” Additionally, 48 of the 50 states continue to enforce some form of felon disenfranchisement laws. While these laws vary, the rules disqualify otherwise eligible voters due to having been convicted of a crime. The rules are ancient in origin, and were used in the nineteenth century in the Jim Crow south to shut out African American voters. And yet they continue today. Many US states require ex-felons who are free from punishment to nonetheless go through a detailed and difficult process of restoring their voting. The Sentencing Project estimates that 5.8 million Americans are barred from participating in elections due to having a felony conviction. And nearly 2.2 million black citizens – or nearly one in 13 African-American adults – are banned from voting because of these laws. This ratio rises to one in five African American bared by felon disenfranchisement laws in Florida, Kentucky, and Virginia. The cumulative effect of these two policies is that a political underclass continues to exist in the United States. These policies affect the poor generally, but their particular impact on poor people of color further marginalizes an already historically marginalized political community, and it is an affront to the civil rights movement that sought to make good on the promise of political equality for all citizens.

I understand what you are saying but Felons are aware that their right to vote is a privilage and can be taken away.

As far as taking off work to vote, polls are open in my State from 6:00am to 7:00pm. Those who still work during those hours can take off work PAID up to 3 hours to go vote.

ID's cost around $10.00. So do Birth Certificates and Marriage License. It costs nothing to register to vote, when I get my drivers license renewed they normally ask if you are registered to vote and if not if you want to register. ID's and drivers license are good for 6 years.


I would be more then willing to pay it forward and pay for someone to get an ID & register to vote. I am more then willing to pick up people and take them to the polls to vote.


I also understand that there are poor area's that generally do not turn out to vote. We need to change this, I agree.



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Reply #25 posted 10/08/18 7:01am

DiminutiveRock
er

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hausofmoi7 said:

Firstly, Not everyone can even vote. It’s a privilege to be able to vote. Secondly, America is not a democracy, It’s representative republic. Your electoral college almost makes voting irrelevant. Thirdly, not only is third party voting frowned upon. Dr Jill Stein was literally tied up and held hostage so she couldn’t attend a presidential debate in 2008. As a result the discourse is myopic and limited for most people. Yelling at people to vote when what I listed above is occurring is premature. . [Edited 10/7/18 9:11am]



VOTE - IT'S IMPORTANT!

Your ignorance is showing if you think that presidents and senators and representatives are the only thing we vote for. On every ballot for every election there are concurrently local government elections with offices to be filled and propositions and initiatives introduced that have a direct effect on the laws in local communities. Voting is important for a variety of reasons but it starts with your local community leaders and laws, then branches up to your state leaders and laws and then your country's leaders.

Do your due diligence, people! Our local television broadcasts are bombarded with ads for all the local issues - see who is paying for the ads and research why they are funding it.






typos rolleyes

[Edited 10/8/18 13:02pm]

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #26 posted 10/08/18 7:32am

2elijah

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I can’t wait to vote. My whole family will be out there voting.
FEARLESS
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Reply #27 posted 10/08/18 7:34am

DiminutiveRock
er

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2elijah said:

I can’t wait to vote. My whole family will be out there voting.


I joined a local group that will be working at getting out the VOTE this November.
Boots on the ground! flag

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #28 posted 10/08/18 7:50am

poppys

We don't have any Congressional or gubernatorial votes this year, but one of our major issues is that LA allows a person to be convicted without a unanimous jury vote, they can convict with 10 out of 12. So that needs to change. The only other state that allows that is Oregon. Relates to some of the points haus is making too.


Prosecutors who seek to convict a criminal defendant must convince jurors that they can conclude, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant is guilty. One way to insure that this standard has been met is to require every member of the jury to reach this conclusion. Requiring unanimity in jury verdicts is the rule in federal courts (Rule 31(a), Federal Rules... Procedure), and in every state but Oregon and Louisiana, where less than unanimous votes can support a conviction (unanimity is required in Louisiana for death penalty cases, however). lawyers.com

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Reply #29 posted 10/08/18 8:08am

2freaky4church
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Vote anti fascist.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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