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Forums > Politics & Religion > Right Winger Jason Riley advocates for open borders. Neat.
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Thread started 06/23/18 9:21am

2freaky4church
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Right Winger Jason Riley advocates for open borders. Neat.

Try to spin this. This guy is right wing.

Beat that.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #1 posted 06/23/18 9:22am

2freaky4church
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Funny how he is so right here but wrong about everything else.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #2 posted 07/01/18 8:39am

OnlyNDaUsa

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no one actually wants open borders. i was at the rally in Austin yesterday and I was shocked at some of what was being said. (open border crap and junk like make America Mexico again... which shows how poorly educated some people are. Spain stole the land and wiped out many of the peoples there... and then lost a war or two and agreed to hand the land over... and then the irony is if Mexico is better than the US then move there... if the US is better than MEXICO then why would you want to change it?

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #3 posted 07/01/18 10:08am

2freaky4church
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You could have learned something.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #4 posted 07/01/18 10:33am

damosuzuki

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i don't quite understand why you think it's notable that a right winger is for open borders.

it's the position of many on what you could broadly call the libertarian right.

russ roberts, of the great 'econtalk' podcast, basically holds that position, for example.

milt friedman was essentially for open borders as well, though he also said that it would be incompatible with the welfare state.

as far as i know, it is still the editorial position of the wall street journal - 'there shall be open borders' is what they recommended as a constitutional amendment some time back, and i believe that remains their position.

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."

http://www.thelifeyoucansave.com/
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Reply #5 posted 07/01/18 10:38am

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

You could have learned something.

nope... see you agree with me, you just not know it. I am as opposed now to separating children from parents now as I was a few years ago... I also know you are not for open borders... you may THINK you are but you have not given it any actual thought... or you would admit you are not.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #6 posted 07/01/18 10:48am

OnlyNDaUsa

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damosuzuki said:

i don't quite understand why you think it's notable that a right winger is for open borders.

it's the position of many on what you could broadly call the libertarian right.

russ roberts, of the great 'econtalk' podcast, basically holds that position, for example.

milt friedman was essentially for open borders as well, though he also said that it would be incompatible with the welfare state.

as far as i know, it is still the editorial position of the wall street journal - 'there shall be open borders' is what they recommended as a constitutional amendment some time back, and i believe that remains their position.

no one in a pull nation supports it. that is a statement made for some other reason by people in Pull nations... we know why people in push nations like it. we know why Mexico thinks the US should have it... and we know why liberals say they like it...


Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #7 posted 07/01/18 10:57am

2freaky4church
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Nobody is for them.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #8 posted 07/01/18 10:59am

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

Nobody is for them.

nobody's for what?

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #9 posted 07/01/18 3:43pm

damosuzuki

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

damosuzuki said:

i don't quite understand why you think it's notable that a right winger is for open borders.

it's the position of many on what you could broadly call the libertarian right.

russ roberts, of the great 'econtalk' podcast, basically holds that position, for example.

milt friedman was essentially for open borders as well, though he also said that it would be incompatible with the welfare state.

as far as i know, it is still the editorial position of the wall street journal - 'there shall be open borders' is what they recommended as a constitutional amendment some time back, and i believe that remains their position.

no one in a pull nation supports it. that is a statement made for some other reason by people in Pull nations... we know why people in push nations like it. we know why Mexico thinks the US should have it... and we know why liberals say they like it...


well, jason riley supports them, and, as i just mentioned, so does russ roberts and so did milton friedman.

and i support open borders too, more or less, basically for the same reasons laid out in the video freaky posted. so you know of at least 4 people in 'pull' nations that do so. and if you just poked around on google, you'd have no trouble finding more.

i am not an intellectual, and i certainly don't know everything there is to know on this issue (or anything), but it seems to me the economic case for it is rock solid. it's certainly better for the world overall to have a worker in a productive region than a non-productive region. and it's better for the person moving (if it wasn't, he presumably wouldn't go to the trouble of moving). it's better for the country the person is leaving behind, often (they send money back home), and i think it's good for the country receiving the worker (again, for all the reasons laid out in the video).

[Edited 7/1/18 15:57pm]

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."

http://www.thelifeyoucansave.com/
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Reply #10 posted 07/01/18 4:02pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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damosuzuki said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

no one in a pull nation supports it. that is a statement made for some other reason by people in Pull nations... we know why people in push nations like it. we know why Mexico thinks the US should have it... and we know why liberals say they like it...


well, jason riley supports them, and, as i just mentioned, so does russ roberts and so did milton friedman.

and i support open borders too, more or less, basically for the same reasons laid out in the video freaky posted. so you know of at least 4 people in 'pull' nations that do so. and if you just poked around on google, you'd have no trouble finding more.

i am not an intellectual, and i certainly don't know everything there is to know on this issue (or anything), but it seems to me the economic case for it is rock solid. it's certainly better for the world overall to have a worker in a productive region than a non-productive region. and it's better for the person moving (if it wasn't, he presumably wouldn't go to the trouble of moving). it's better for the country the person is leaving behind, often (they send money back home), and i think it's good for the country receiving the worker (again, for all the reasons laid out in the video).

[Edited 7/1/18 15:57pm]

no they do/did not and neither do you.

the video is dangerously limited in its scope...

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #11 posted 07/01/18 4:10pm

damosuzuki

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

damosuzuki said:

well, jason riley supports them, and, as i just mentioned, so does russ roberts and so did milton friedman.

and i support open borders too, more or less, basically for the same reasons laid out in the video freaky posted. so you know of at least 4 people in 'pull' nations that do so. and if you just poked around on google, you'd have no trouble finding more.

i am not an intellectual, and i certainly don't know everything there is to know on this issue (or anything), but it seems to me the economic case for it is rock solid. it's certainly better for the world overall to have a worker in a productive region than a non-productive region. and it's better for the person moving (if it wasn't, he presumably wouldn't go to the trouble of moving). it's better for the country the person is leaving behind, often (they send money back home), and i think it's good for the country receiving the worker (again, for all the reasons laid out in the video).

[Edited 7/1/18 15:57pm]

no they do/did not and neither do you.

the video is dangerously limited in its scope...

well, you've lost me now.

how is it you know my own mind?

tell me what you think jason riley is missing (or what i'm missing for that matter).

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."

http://www.thelifeyoucansave.com/
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Reply #12 posted 07/01/18 4:22pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

Try to spin this. This guy is right wing.

Beat that.

Pont 1) Population: I flat out irrelevant and not even a major argument but it does fly in the face of global warming hoaxer's argument that the world's population it even close to being too high. It takes 2 examples of extremes and uses them to make a point. And that fails...


2) They'll take out jobs! his point is kind of correct, I have never made that argument. We do know that many of the jobs they do take are actually skilled jobs. And in fact, if we could deport all illegals overnight it would have a devastating impact on many economies.


3) welfare: I do not think I have made that point but their % of total expenditures (of all forms including education and medical and everything else is what I want to know before I could decide)

4) assimilation: I doubt he is correct, I would need to see valid data... i know of 100+ people that have been here for decades and still do not speak functional English. That means they are automatically and permanently at a disadvantage.

5) Latino vote: I agree the GOP MUST be better at getting the TRUTH out there. The DNC will lie to scare them... and it works. same with other under-represented groups.


6) Homeland Security: again same argument I have made and the same one trump made, poorly. (but in this point he PROVES he is NOT for open borders)

7) is where he seems to lie, he just mentioned that with open immigration bad people will get in too... then he (read his body language he knows he is lying) But whoever said "seal the border?" Not me and not trump...trump has ALWAYS been for immigration...

8) we are better with immigrants and if done properly and with it is great (the cost is felt but there is also some benefits as they are spending money)




but as I said He is NOT FOR open borders... again NO ONE IS. He said so himself...

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #13 posted 07/01/18 4:28pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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damosuzuki said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

no they do/did not and neither do you.

the video is dangerously limited in its scope...

well, you've lost me now.

how is it you know my own mind?

tell me what you think jason riley is missing (or what i'm missing for that matter).

I would need to read his book to see what he says in that but in his talk, he says he is not for open borders.


and I bet for the same reason you are not... But let's say Mexico loaded up buses with a few 1000 people from their prisons and drove them across the us and took them to Winnipeg and let them all out... would you be fine with that?

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #14 posted 07/01/18 4:29pm

13cjk13

2freaky4church1 said:

Nobody is for them.

Right wing liars have been making up this kind of shit for decades. Pathetic.

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #15 posted 07/01/18 4:35pm

damosuzuki

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ok, so your point is what i assumed it would be - that if we can keep out criminals & terrorists & bad actors if we know who they are, we should do so. fine. if that means i'm not for pure open borders, then you got me, i'm not. i'm for open borders with an asterisk. and i agree that everyone would say that too, almost.

why you didn't just say so from the beginning is lost on me, but at least i know where you're coming from now.

but i do believe that if someone can get here and can get a job, and he thinks he's better off here than where he's coming from, then i want him to be able to come here, because i think it's a win for all concerned parties.

i do think milt friedman was a very smart man, and when he said there's an incompatibility with having a welfare system & open borders he was almost certainly right, but there are systems & rules that we could build with that in mind.

edit - didn't see your response before i posted, but i think i more or less respond to your question in what i've said above.

[Edited 7/1/18 16:36pm]

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."

http://www.thelifeyoucansave.com/
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Reply #16 posted 07/01/18 4:35pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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13cjk13 said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Nobody is for them.

Right wing liars have been making up this kind of shit for decades. Pathetic.

so no restricts at all? so Mexico could do what castro did in the 80s? empty their prisons and send them all you your home town? If you are for open borders... you would have to agree that would be oaky... see open means NO restrictions at all and no vetting not process not ID no pre-conditions.

you do not support it. just admit it.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #17 posted 07/01/18 4:40pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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damosuzuki said:

ok, so your point is what i assumed it would be - that if we can keep out criminals & terrorists & bad actors if we know who they are, we should do so. fine. if that means i'm not for pure open borders, then you got me, i'm not. i'm for open borders with an asterisk. and i agree that everyone would say that too, almost.

why you didn't just say so from the beginning is lost on me, but at least i know where you're coming from now.

but i do believe that if someone can get here and can get a job, and he thinks he's better off here than where he's coming from, then i want him to be able to come here, because i think it's a win for all concerned parties.

i do think milt friedman was a very smart man, and when he said there's an incompatibility with having a welfare system & open borders he was almost certainly right, but there are systems & rules that we could build with that in mind.

cool. open borders would necessarily mean without restrictions...


So we agree we need to have some vetting process?


now to numbers: how many a year? 2Million? 5Million 10? no limits? As long as they meet some standard of vetting they can come in? and what should it cost?

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #18 posted 07/01/18 4:46pm

damosuzuki

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

damosuzuki said:

ok, so your point is what i assumed it would be - that if we can keep out criminals & terrorists & bad actors if we know who they are, we should do so. fine. if that means i'm not for pure open borders, then you got me, i'm not. i'm for open borders with an asterisk. and i agree that everyone would say that too, almost.

why you didn't just say so from the beginning is lost on me, but at least i know where you're coming from now.

but i do believe that if someone can get here and can get a job, and he thinks he's better off here than where he's coming from, then i want him to be able to come here, because i think it's a win for all concerned parties.

i do think milt friedman was a very smart man, and when he said there's an incompatibility with having a welfare system & open borders he was almost certainly right, but there are systems & rules that we could build with that in mind.

cool. open borders would necessarily mean without restrictions...


So we agree we need to have some vetting process?


now to numbers: how many a year? 2Million? 5Million 10? no limits? As long as they meet some standard of vetting they can come in? and what should it cost?

agreed on a need for vetting.

i don't know what the right number is, and i don't know if there's a person or a bureaucracy in the world who could possibly know such a thing.

my position is what i said before: if a person can come here and find a job, then he ought to be able to come and stay. and if he can't find a job, then he ought to go home. i suspect the labour market will do a much better job of working out what the right number of people for winnipeg or anywhere else is than me or you or the smartest person around.

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."

http://www.thelifeyoucansave.com/
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Reply #19 posted 07/01/18 4:58pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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damosuzuki said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

cool. open borders would necessarily mean without restrictions...


So we agree we need to have some vetting process?


now to numbers: how many a year? 2Million? 5Million 10? no limits? As long as they meet some standard of vetting they can come in? and what should it cost?

agreed on a need for vetting.

i don't know what the right number is, and i don't know if there's a person or a bureaucracy in the world who could possibly know such a thing.

my position is what i said before: if a person can come here and find a job, then he ought to be able to come and stay. and if he can't find a job, then he ought to go home. i suspect the labour market will do a much better job of working out what the right number of people for winnipeg or anywhere else is than me or you or the smartest person around.

so we agree on vetting and some limit... and my position is very much the same. And if 1000s of people bypassed the US and crossed into Canada to seek "Asylum" would that fly? (it is really easy for people in Canada to be critical when they know it is not an issue for them)


And why did you mention me twice? Weird?

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #20 posted 07/02/18 7:22am

2freaky4church
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Dumbest around, sure.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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