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Thread started 08/05/17 7:42pm

Fenwick

Has anyone here had their mind changed?

So...

After a very long hiatus from the Org, I dipped my toe into the waters a few months ago and created a thread trying to stimulate conversation. It succeeded, (albeit moderately), for about three or four pages, and then disintegrated into a firestorm of ping pong poopy balls.


I literally couldn't respond in time before it got shut down by the mods on three different occasions. I'd like to try again. Perhaps this time with a different approach.

A little back story first...

I poke my head into this site once or twice a month and look around. (Moreso lately with all the new leaks). When it comes to P & R, I invariably find it's the same people always arguing about the same things over and over and over and over and over again. No one ever bends. No one ever cedes a point. Pride is an omnipotent beast round these parts....

It honestly, hand to heart, boggles the mind. What's the purpose? Is anyone truly listening to the other point of view? Is anyone really trying to initiate a discussion whereby the other side hears a constructive argument and changes their mind? Or at the very least, understand the other side's point of view? I mean, if we can't civilly exchange ideas on the political forum of Prince.org, why does this section even exist? In theory, we're all here because we share the love of his music. Shouldn't that most beautiful common denominator govern how we interact with each other, regardless of our political stripe?

So. Rather than leave it at that with a generic series of sentences, I will ask the most pointed question I can. Has anyone on this forum had someone from the opposing side bring up a subject matter in such a way that it has changed their mind/perspective on an issue?

If anyone chooses to respond. For the love of silly puddy, can we all please keep it civil?

[Edited 8/5/17 19:43pm]

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Reply #1 posted 08/05/17 8:04pm

Horsefeathers

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I think maybe this space probably means different things for different people. Some people may be earnestly seeking enlightenment and objective discourse. Others may just be using it to blow off steam, not even necessarily in an angry context, and aren't interested in what you (figurative you) have to say. And the whole range in between. I would expect the same people to say the same things all the time here unlike faster paced public forums with a larger flow of traffic and higher turnover.

Also, I've been here a long time, though my participation has not been prolific, but there seem to be some deep personal divisions and axes to grind. I think that makes it harder to avoid digging in heels.
Murica: at least it's not Sudan.
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Reply #2 posted 08/05/17 8:20pm

Fenwick

Horsefeathers said:

I think maybe this space probably means different things for different people. Some people may be earnestly seeking enlightenment and objective discourse. Others may just be using it to blow off steam, not even necessarily in an angry context, and aren't interested in what you (figurative you) have to say. And the whole range in between. I would expect the same people to say the same things all the time here unlike faster paced public forums with a larger flow of traffic and higher turnover. Also, I've been here a long time, though my participation has not been prolific, but there seem to be some deep personal divisions and axes to grind. I think that makes it harder to avoid digging in heels.

Hi Horsefeathers


I really enjoyed our brief back and forth on the previous thread before the pitbulls locked their jaws on each other. I guess, if this site was "Republicans can eat poop and die.com" or "Democrats can rot in hell.com" I would understand more.


But this is Prince.org. It seems a strange place to constantly bicker with people of a different stripe than your own. I would think this would be a site to come get away from the noise. There are plenty of political forums to strut your feathers if that's your wish. But to come in here, and constantly argue and bicker, endlessly, never giving an inch. Never ceding a point.

Is it fair for me to say, never growing? You've got it all down? You've learned all that you need? (Figurative of course).


Not necessarily from the Org, but there are so many things I have softened my stance on over the years, specfically by listening to people whose opinions are different from my own. Granted, I don't look extremely hard, but I see none of that on here.....

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Reply #3 posted 08/06/17 8:28am

midnightmover

Fenwick said:

So...

After a very long hiatus from the Org, I dipped my toe into the waters a few months ago and created a thread trying to stimulate conversation. It succeeded, (albeit moderately), for about three or four pages, and then disintegrated into a firestorm of ping pong poopy balls.


I literally couldn't respond in time before it got shut down by the mods on three different occasions. I'd like to try again. Perhaps this time with a different approach.

A little back story first...

I poke my head into this site once or twice a month and look around. (Moreso lately with all the new leaks). When it comes to P & R, I invariably find it's the same people always arguing about the same things over and over and over and over and over again. No one ever bends. No one ever cedes a point. Pride is an omnipotent beast round these parts....

It honestly, hand to heart, boggles the mind. What's the purpose? Is anyone truly listening to the other point of view? Is anyone really trying to initiate a discussion whereby the other side hears a constructive argument and changes their mind? Or at the very least, understand the other side's point of view? I mean, if we can't civilly exchange ideas on the political forum of Prince.org, why does this section even exist? In theory, we're all here because we share the love of his music. Shouldn't that most beautiful common denominator govern how we interact with each other, regardless of our political stripe?

So. Rather than leave it at that with a generic series of sentences, I will ask the most pointed question I can. Has anyone on this forum had someone from the opposing side bring up a subject matter in such a way that it has changed their mind/perspective on an issue?

If anyone chooses to respond. For the love of silly puddy, can we all please keep it civil?

[Edited 8/5/17 19:43pm]

Yes. When the Freddie Gray story first happened I wrote about how the police were getting away with murder. OnlyNDaUSA asked why I was prejudging the case when (at that point) we knew so little. I realized he was right and responded by saying that I would keep an open mind about the case.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #4 posted 08/06/17 8:44am

OnlyNDaUsa

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and a minority here I see that some can not handle not being agreed with. any disagreement is taken (most of the time by innuendo as they lack the courage to say it and are called out as racist. it is like they just want to all agree....something I call the "yup yup club."

I come here and I post and debate... I have fun... I do not care to have my mind changed or not... I get accused sometimes of not responding to some topics...i get called out by name! But Sometimes I either see no need (if i agree why bother) or I do not care or I see it as bait and pass it by.


"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #5 posted 08/06/17 9:31am

SuperFurryAnim
al

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I can relate often to what others post even if I have a different view. I can see the point of view they make and also I view others as more expert in certain areas outside of conspiracy theories and NWO. Even if I disagree I think others make damn good points. 2E has a lot of good info on history and race and Only on the legal system and Freaky he posts good info on current affairs and Horse, Dimi, Rodeo I always like to see what they post and I think I agree on some things and disagree on others. I will say that often I believe we have silent agreements from what some view as opposition or enemies. I don't really view people on here as enemies but as people who have different views as me. I'm just here to protect people from the Globalist agenda.

I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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Reply #6 posted 08/06/17 9:39am

OnlyNDaUsa

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the one thing I say often if not often enough is we all mostly agree on most (really all) issues. What we trip over are the approach or priority.


I can not think of a single thing we actually disagree with in the end. And this is not something I came up with...

and I can say i challenge anyone to come up with one issue that I actually do not agree with then over...

Obama? no! I do not like his approach to issues... but over all what he wanted is what we all want... he just went about it poorly.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #7 posted 08/06/17 9:42am

SuperFurryAnim
al

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Horsefeathers said:

I think maybe this space probably means different things for different people. Some people may be earnestly seeking enlightenment and objective discourse. Others may just be using it to blow off steam, not even necessarily in an angry context, and aren't interested in what you (figurative you) have to say. And the whole range in between. I would expect the same people to say the same things all the time here unlike faster paced public forums with a larger flow of traffic and higher turnover. Also, I've been here a long time, though my participation has not been prolific, but there seem to be some deep personal divisions and axes to grind. I think that makes it harder to avoid digging in heels.

Horse I always like to hear what you have to say and you are correct I think in stating it is different for everyone. As for enlightenment, I seek it but not here. Not spiritually or knowledge because too many people are strictly posting various point of views based on opinion.

I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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Reply #8 posted 08/06/17 9:45am

sonshine

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When it comes to the subjects of politics and religion people are downright obtuse. Perhaps opinions could be shared and even changed or softened if folks used a little tact. But that seems to be impossible. The people who are passionate about politics and religion seem to be extremists and very closed minded.
Have you had your plus sign (+) today?
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Reply #9 posted 08/06/17 9:49am

SuperFurryAnim
al

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

the one thing I say often if not often enough is we all mostly agree on most (really all) issues. What we trip over are the approach or priority.


I can not think of a single thing we actually disagree with in the end. And this is not something I came up with...

and I can say i challenge anyone to come up with one issue that I actually do not agree with then over...

Obama? no! I do not like his approach to issues... but over all what he wanted is what we all want... he just went about it poorly.

I've certainly disagreed with Only on some things but it never was malicious. Some people on here though when they say basically go kill yourself it is hurtful. Personal attacks from some are hurtful and some of the projecting that goes on here is uncalled for. If a Trump supporter goes and shoots up a mall some will project that all his supporters are like that and will project it onto us. Sorry I don't carry and gun and act like Zimmerman for example.

I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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Reply #10 posted 08/06/17 10:03am

OnlyNDaUsa

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SuperFurryAnimal said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the one thing I say often if not often enough is we all mostly agree on most (really all) issues. What we trip over are the approach or priority.


I can not think of a single thing we actually disagree with in the end. And this is not something I came up with...

and I can say i challenge anyone to come up with one issue that I actually do not agree with then over...

Obama? no! I do not like his approach to issues... but over all what he wanted is what we all want... he just went about it poorly.

I've certainly disagreed with Only on some things but it never was malicious. Some people on here though when they say basically go kill yourself it is hurtful. Personal attacks from some are hurtful and some of the projecting that goes on here is uncalled for. If a Trump supporter goes and shoots up a mall some will project that all his supporters are like that and will project it onto us. Sorry I don't carry and gun and act like Zimmerman for example.

I brush most of it off but YES some have actually told me to commit suicide. I like it sometimes some get so mad and so personal... I call that letting someone "show their crazy."

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #11 posted 08/06/17 10:35am

2freaky4church
1

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You do make me wanna kill myself.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #12 posted 08/06/17 1:15pm

Fenwick

midnightmover said:

Fenwick said:

So...

After a very long hiatus from the Org, I dipped my toe into the waters a few months ago and created a thread trying to stimulate conversation. It succeeded, (albeit moderately), for about three or four pages, and then disintegrated into a firestorm of ping pong poopy balls.


I literally couldn't respond in time before it got shut down by the mods on three different occasions. I'd like to try again. Perhaps this time with a different approach.

A little back story first...

I poke my head into this site once or twice a month and look around. (Moreso lately with all the new leaks). When it comes to P & R, I invariably find it's the same people always arguing about the same things over and over and over and over and over again. No one ever bends. No one ever cedes a point. Pride is an omnipotent beast round these parts....

It honestly, hand to heart, boggles the mind. What's the purpose? Is anyone truly listening to the other point of view? Is anyone really trying to initiate a discussion whereby the other side hears a constructive argument and changes their mind? Or at the very least, understand the other side's point of view? I mean, if we can't civilly exchange ideas on the political forum of Prince.org, why does this section even exist? In theory, we're all here because we share the love of his music. Shouldn't that most beautiful common denominator govern how we interact with each other, regardless of our political stripe?

So. Rather than leave it at that with a generic series of sentences, I will ask the most pointed question I can. Has anyone on this forum had someone from the opposing side bring up a subject matter in such a way that it has changed their mind/perspective on an issue?

If anyone chooses to respond. For the love of silly puddy, can we all please keep it civil?

[Edited 8/5/17 19:43pm]

Yes. When the Freddie Gray story first happened I wrote about how the police were getting away with murder. OnlyNDaUSA asked why I was prejudging the case when (at that point) we knew so little. I realized he was right and responded by saying that I would keep an open mind about the case.

Hey Midnight.

Thanks for responding. I think that's great. It's refreshing to hear soeone say they had their opinion challenged and it actually resonated enough to give them pause.

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Reply #13 posted 08/06/17 1:20pm

Fenwick

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the one thing I say often if not often enough is we all mostly agree on most (really all) issues. What we trip over are the approach or priority.


I can not think of a single thing we actually disagree with in the end. And this is not something I came up with...

and I can say i challenge anyone to come up with one issue that I actually do not agree with then over...

Obama? no! I do not like his approach to issues... but over all what he wanted is what we all want... he just went about it poorly.

Hey Only


I'm not entirely sure I understand this sentence at all, but I imagine I am misunstderstanding you. Can you explain? There's a crap ton of stuff a lot of people disagree with on here. Way too many to list......

Unless you are just speaking at 30,000 feet regarding what's "best for us all". And even then, there'd still be a lot of disagreement.

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Reply #14 posted 08/06/17 1:23pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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2freaky4church1 said:

You do make me wanna kill myself.



That is not good and I don't condone it.
I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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Reply #15 posted 08/06/17 1:26pm

Fenwick

SuperFurryAnimal said:

I can relate often to what others post even if I have a different view. I can see the point of view they make and also I view others as more expert in certain areas outside of conspiracy theories and NWO. Even if I disagree I think others make damn good points. 2E has a lot of good info on history and race and Only on the legal system and Freaky he posts good info on current affairs and Horse, Dimi, Rodeo I always like to see what they post and I think I agree on some things and disagree on others. I will say that often I believe we have silent agreements from what some view as opposition or enemies. I don't really view people on here as enemies but as people who have different views as me. I'm just here to protect people from the Globalist agenda.

Hey Super Furry

Thanks for the post. In all candor, I'm not sure your approach is held by most on this forum. The venom and contempt for the opposing view I see spewed here on a regular basis can be pretty loud.

I 100% agree with you that there are a handful of posters on here whose opinions I deeply respect.

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Reply #16 posted 08/06/17 1:28pm

Fenwick

sonshine said:

When it comes to the subjects of politics and religion people are downright obtuse. Perhaps opinions could be shared and even changed or softened if folks used a little tact. But that seems to be impossible. The people who are passionate about politics and religion seem to be extremists and very closed minded.

And there it is. What's funny is there's nothing utterly profound about this comment. Yet so few people can abide by it. (I mean this as a compliment sonshine)....

Of course, this is not restriced to this forum.

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Reply #17 posted 08/06/17 1:30pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Fenwick said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the one thing I say often if not often enough is we all mostly agree on most (really all) issues. What we trip over are the approach or priority.


I can not think of a single thing we actually disagree with in the end. And this is not something I came up with...

and I can say i challenge anyone to come up with one issue that I actually do not agree with then over...

Obama? no! I do not like his approach to issues... but over all what he wanted is what we all want... he just went about it poorly.

Hey Only


I'm not entirely sure I understand this sentence at all, but I imagine I am misunstderstanding you. Can you explain? There's a crap ton of stuff a lot of people disagree with on here. Way too many to list......

Unless you are just speaking at 30,000 feet regarding what's "best for us all". And even then, there'd still be a lot of disagreement.

the things we thing disagree about are about HOW to achieve a goal, not the goal itself

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #18 posted 08/06/17 1:32pm

Fenwick

OnlyNDaUsa said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

I've certainly disagreed with Only on some things but it never was malicious. Some people on here though when they say basically go kill yourself it is hurtful. Personal attacks from some are hurtful and some of the projecting that goes on here is uncalled for. If a Trump supporter goes and shoots up a mall some will project that all his supporters are like that and will project it onto us. Sorry I don't carry and gun and act like Zimmerman for example.

I brush most of it off but YES some have actually told me to commit suicide. I like it sometimes some get so mad and so personal... I call that letting someone "show their crazy."

I can only assume if you have actually been told to off yourself that the people who have done so have been perma-banned. (?)


I'll be honest Only. In the threads I have viewed from time to time, I don't agree with your tact or your viewpoint very often. That being said, I would hope anyone publicly wishing you harm would no longer have a voice around here.


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Reply #19 posted 08/06/17 1:35pm

Fenwick

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Fenwick said:

Hey Only


I'm not entirely sure I understand this sentence at all, but I imagine I am misunstderstanding you. Can you explain? There's a crap ton of stuff a lot of people disagree with on here. Way too many to list......

Unless you are just speaking at 30,000 feet regarding what's "best for us all". And even then, there'd still be a lot of disagreement.

the things we thing disagree about are about HOW to achieve a goal, not the goal itself

Thanks for the reponse Only.

I'm not sure we're ever going to agree on this one. There are way too many issues that speak specifically to the end goal, not just policy and/or tact....

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Reply #20 posted 08/06/17 1:36pm

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

Fenwick said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I brush most of it off but YES some have actually told me to commit suicide. I like it sometimes some get so mad and so personal... I call that letting someone "show their crazy."

I can only assume if you have actually been told to off yourself that the people who have done so have been perma-banned. (?)


I'll be honest Only. In the threads I have viewed from time to time, I don't agree with your tact or your viewpoint very often. That being said, I would hope anyone publicly wishing you harm would no longer have a voice around here.


someone did and they were not banned and I would not want them banned.

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #21 posted 08/06/17 1:36pm

Fenwick

SuperFurryAnimal said:

2freaky4church1 said:

You do make me wanna kill myself.

That is not good and I don't condone it.

100% agreed.

Totally unproductive on all levels.

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Reply #22 posted 08/06/17 1:38pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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Fenwick said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the things we thing disagree about are about HOW to achieve a goal, not the goal itself

Thanks for the reponse Only.

I'm not sure we're ever going to agree on this one. There are way too many issues that speak specifically to the end goal, not just policy and/or tact....

give an example and i will explain why we do not disagree

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #23 posted 08/06/17 1:39pm

Fenwick

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Fenwick said:

I can only assume if you have actually been told to off yourself that the people who have done so have been perma-banned. (?)


I'll be honest Only. In the threads I have viewed from time to time, I don't agree with your tact or your viewpoint very often. That being said, I would hope anyone publicly wishing you harm would no longer have a voice around here.


someone did and they were not banned and I would not want them banned.



OK my friend.

I have seen people in here unfairly banned for far less. I disgagree whole heartedly. But no worries amigo.


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Reply #24 posted 08/06/17 1:44pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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Fenwick said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

someone did and they were not banned and I would not want them banned.



OK my friend.

I have seen people in here unfairly banned for far less. I disgagree whole heartedly. But no worries amigo.


In most cases people that get banned got banned after a long history of offenses...something is the last straw...

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #25 posted 08/06/17 1:48pm

Fenwick

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Fenwick said:

Thanks for the reponse Only.

I'm not sure we're ever going to agree on this one. There are way too many issues that speak specifically to the end goal, not just policy and/or tact....

give an example and i will explain why we do not disagree

You know what... All due respect, I don't want to go there.

I actually started to list a few things. But that's not my point.

The point of my thread is to heighten awareness of respecting the other point of view; being able to politely express where we disagree.


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Reply #26 posted 08/06/17 1:50pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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Fenwick said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

give an example and i will explain why we do not disagree

You know what... All due respect, I don't want to go there.

I actually started to list a few things. But that's not my point.

The point of my thread is to heighten awareness of respecting the other point of view; being able to politely express where we disagree.


that is cool... but i would say that if we were able to find examples of such we might get along better...

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #27 posted 08/06/17 1:54pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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^True and the person may think opposition but we all only want what is good for America. It was just someone losing cool but I also don't believe they actually wanted someone to commit suicide. It was anger which can be a gateway to the dark side. Also Fen I did go hard against the NWO at one time and I'm sure those posts were hardcore but not anymore. I haven't attacked anyone in probably a good year and usually I'm the poster diffusing flame wars and the Captain calling for threads to stay on topic. I get more attacks and rebuttals but never strike first.
I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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Reply #28 posted 08/06/17 1:57pm

Fenwick

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Fenwick said:

You know what... All due respect, I don't want to go there.

I actually started to list a few things. But that's not my point.

The point of my thread is to heighten awareness of respecting the other point of view; being able to politely express where we disagree.


that is cool... but i would say that if we were able to find examples of such we might get along better...



You're right. Sorry. In fairness to you. Not backing up my original comment could be construed as quite catty on my part.

Not my intention. So again, my apologies.

Let's just leave it at this, For what it's worth from a stranger on the internet. IN the threads I have tuned into on multiple occasions, your rules of engagement have rubbed me the wrong way. (Believe me, that list is a very long one - which is the point of this thread). I'm not going to copy and paste them in here. I'm just going to make a general comment for you to think about. Or ignore.

Either way. I'm not trying to insult you. Or demean you. Just saying your approach isn't one I would adopt if I was trying to win people over to my way of thinking.

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Reply #29 posted 08/06/17 2:04pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

avatar

Fenwick said:



OnlyNDaUsa said:




SuperFurryAnimal said:




I've certainly disagreed with Only on some things but it never was malicious. Some people on here though when they say basically go kill yourself it is hurtful. Personal attacks from some are hurtful and some of the projecting that goes on here is uncalled for. If a Trump supporter goes and shoots up a mall some will project that all his supporters are like that and will project it onto us. Sorry I don't carry and gun and act like Zimmerman for example.





I brush most of it off but YES some have actually told me to commit suicide. I like it sometimes some get so mad and so personal... I call that letting someone "show their crazy."





I can only assume if you have actually been told to off yourself that the people who have done so have been perma-banned. (?)


I'll be honest Only. In the threads I have viewed from time to time, I don't agree with your tact or your viewpoint very often. That being said, I would hope anyone publicly wishing you harm would no longer have a voice around here.




I don't think that person wanted anyone to die but was angry. I think that was evident. Some of the attacking that does go on can be hard. When people remark about drug abuse, mental stability or someone's intelligence those posts are rude and disgraceful. When it gets personal. I think 2freaky jabs some but in humorous way but I'm always serious someone joked around about suicide and killed themselves once so I take it serious but think it was joking. Its possible some posters have killed themselves.
I AM AMERICAN. ANTI-COMMUNIST. ANTI-FASCIST.
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