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Thread started 04/18/17 4:46am

maplenpg

UK General Election

SO.......subject to this being passed in the House of Commons tomorrow, there will be a British General Election on June 8th.



There is little doubt that CONservatives will win, even though May has continually promised not to call an election. Personally, I could never vote CONservative so lets have a look at the candidates:



Pole Position: Theresa May - Conservative. Has promised time and time again that no snap election would be called but has now called one. A Remain campaigner who has won a lot of support with her leading of Britain out of Europe. However there is massive instability at home - the NHS are at crisis point, education is threatened once again with an elitism system where the poorest lose out and EU citizens simply do not know where they stand as May fails to show her cards regarding immigration. Also austerity has failed with many hospitals, police stations, libraries and other public services closing because of cuts and yet debts keep on rising.



Sketchy Second: Jeremy Corbyn - Labour. I like Jeremy and his socialist values but he is not a leader. He has suceeded in leading labour to be at its weakest point for decades with divisions within the party at an all-time high. Blairites, who largely support a capitalist agenda, shake their heads at the man who has his own agenda and who has been consistently the butt of jokes against Labour.



Crafty Third : Tim Farron - Lib Dems. Always was my party of choice until the coalition where Nick Clegg barely kept the party alive. Now I'm not so sure. Could stand to gain seats with their strong Remain ethic, especially could gain back seats lost at last election. Lib Dems could stage this as their comeback even though they have no chance of winning.



Rank Outsider: Green Party - Job-share has not worked well for the Greens who seem to have all but disappeared from the political spectrum, which is a shame given the large amount of fracking being planned around the country. Need to get their names back on the map.



Rank Outsider: Nicola Sturgeon - SNP - has been very outspoken against Brexit and in calling for a second Scottish referendum. The thorn in May's side.

Rank Outsider: UKIP - Leadership troubles. Unlikely to do anywhere near as well as in the last election.

I may have missed some out. Please add your thoughts. Is this a complete waste of time with only one foregone conclusion?

[Edited 4/18/17 5:36am]

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Reply #1 posted 04/19/17 4:20am

maplenpg

May says NO to any live TV debates because she wants to get out and meet the people. WTF.....surely she can get her message across to many, many more people by taking part in these debates.

I'm getting angry at May now. She has a distinct advantage by repeatedly stating that she would not call an election and then calling one. She is already tipped to win by a long margin. But she won't allow her opponents a chance to have a public debate with her, especially when something as important as Brexit is on the table? Wow.

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Reply #2 posted 04/19/17 5:00am

DiminutiveRock
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maplenpg said:

May says NO to any live TV debates because she wants to get out and meet the people. WTF.....surely she can get her message across to many, many more people by taking part in these debates.

I'm getting angry at May now. She has a distinct advantage by repeatedly stating that she would not call an election and then calling one. She is already tipped to win by a long margin. But she won't allow her opponents a chance to have a public debate with her, especially when something as important as Brexit is on the table? Wow.


That is annoying. Is she afraid to lose a debate and her poll position?

"When you have people who don't know about science standing in denial of it and rising to power - that is a recipe for the complete dismantling of our informed democracy" - Neil de Grasse Tyson
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Reply #3 posted 04/19/17 5:33am

maplenpg

DiminutiveRocker said:

maplenpg said:

May says NO to any live TV debates because she wants to get out and meet the people. WTF.....surely she can get her message across to many, many more people by taking part in these debates.

I'm getting angry at May now. She has a distinct advantage by repeatedly stating that she would not call an election and then calling one. She is already tipped to win by a long margin. But she won't allow her opponents a chance to have a public debate with her, especially when something as important as Brexit is on the table? Wow.


That is annoying. Is she afraid to lose a debate and her poll position?

I doubt it as she is so far ahead in the polls. She seems to be a bit of a control freak so I think she doesn't want to portray herself in a bad light and she knows there are many tricky questions the public want answering regarding Brexit that, so far, she has refused to answer.

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Reply #4 posted 04/19/17 5:37am

DiminutiveRock
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maplenpg said:

DiminutiveRocker said:


That is annoying. Is she afraid to lose a debate and her poll position?

I doubt it as she is so far ahead in the polls. She seems to be a bit of a control freak so I think she doesn't want to portray herself in a bad light and she knows there are many tricky questions the public want answering regarding Brexit that, so far, she has refused to answer.



Sounds like she needs a weekend as Mar-a-lago

"When you have people who don't know about science standing in denial of it and rising to power - that is a recipe for the complete dismantling of our informed democracy" - Neil de Grasse Tyson
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Reply #5 posted 04/19/17 5:40am

maplenpg

DiminutiveRocker said:

maplenpg said:

I doubt it as she is so far ahead in the polls. She seems to be a bit of a control freak so I think she doesn't want to portray herself in a bad light and she knows there are many tricky questions the public want answering regarding Brexit that, so far, she has refused to answer.



Sounds like she needs a weekend as Mar-a-lago

She'd be more welcomed there than in Europe I suspect! biggrin

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Reply #6 posted 04/19/17 6:40am

2freaky4church
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Corbyn will be PM in a few years.

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Reply #7 posted 04/19/17 7:19am

maplenpg

2freaky4church1 said:

Corbyn will be PM in a few years.

Oh how I wish I could agree with you! His values are great but I fear he may not be the leader after June.

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Reply #8 posted 04/19/17 3:19pm

DiminutiveRock
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maplenpg said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Corbyn will be PM in a few years.

Oh how I wish I could agree with you! His values are great but I fear he may not be the leader after June.

The pendulum will swing back again... it's all physics smile

"When you have people who don't know about science standing in denial of it and rising to power - that is a recipe for the complete dismantling of our informed democracy" - Neil de Grasse Tyson
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Reply #9 posted 04/22/17 12:31am

midnightmover

Man, this is gonna be a bloodbath! When Corbyn was first elected I said the only way it could turn out well would be if he replaced the Blairites with progressives and out of the influx of talent they could find a new leader to replace him. But it was obvious from the start he didn't have the stomach for the fight. He came out talking about "a kinder, gentler politics". Jesus!

Now Labour faces an election with not just a weak leader at the helm but also a parliamentary party that is not on the same page as him. The worst of all possible worlds.

Actually no, it's not the worst of all possible worlds. The worst would be having a soulless Red Tory at the helm since then we'd have to put up with all their dishonest fake opposition and they'd end up losing anyway. Who wants Tory Light when you can just have the real thing instead?

[Edited 4/22/17 0:38am]

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #10 posted 04/22/17 4:01am

maplenpg

midnightmover said:

Man, this is gonna be a bloodbath! When Corbyn was first elected I said the only way it could turn out well would be if he replaced the Blairites with progressives and out of the influx of talent they could find a new leader to replace him. But it was obvious from the start he didn't have the stomach for the fight. He came out talking about "a kinder, gentler politics". Jesus!

Now Labour faces an election with not just a weak leader at the helm but also a parliamentary party that is not on the same page as him. The worst of all possible worlds.

Actually no, it's not the worst of all possible worlds. The worst would be having a soulless Red Tory at the helm since then we'd have to put up with all their dishonest fake opposition and they'd end up losing anyway. Who wants Tory Light when you can just have the real thing instead?

[Edited 4/22/17 0:38am]

I think less of a bloodbath - more of a borefest. Everyone seems to think that the result is a foregone conclusion and, I believe voter numbers will be low, really low. I have never been a Labour voter but I like Corbyn - I always think he's in the wrong party, he seems far more Green to me. Sadly I think he'll be gone following this and that another fake opposition will return to the helm. I've always said that Chuka Umunna will be Britain's first Black PM so we'll see whether he has a go for leader or whether he'll bide his time.


I do feel sorry for Corbyn. He has not had the media on his side at all and they have portrayed him as a senseless baboon yet he speaks a lot of sense. Corbyn (and Brexit) have also provided the Tories with a welcome distraction to not be answerable to why the country is turning to shit through austerity.

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Reply #11 posted 04/22/17 4:41am

midnightmover

maplenpg said:

midnightmover said:

Man, this is gonna be a bloodbath! When Corbyn was first elected I said the only way it could turn out well would be if he replaced the Blairites with progressives and out of the influx of talent they could find a new leader to replace him. But it was obvious from the start he didn't have the stomach for the fight. He came out talking about "a kinder, gentler politics". Jesus!

Now Labour faces an election with not just a weak leader at the helm but also a parliamentary party that is not on the same page as him. The worst of all possible worlds.

Actually no, it's not the worst of all possible worlds. The worst would be having a soulless Red Tory at the helm since then we'd have to put up with all their dishonest fake opposition and they'd end up losing anyway. Who wants Tory Light when you can just have the real thing instead?

[Edited 4/22/17 0:38am]

I think less of a bloodbath - more of a borefest. Everyone seems to think that the result is a foregone conclusion and, I believe voter numbers will be low, really low. I have never been a Labour voter but I like Corbyn - I always think he's in the wrong party, he seems far more Green to me. Sadly I think he'll be gone following this and that another fake opposition will return to the helm. I've always said that Chuka Umunna will be Britain's first Black PM so we'll see whether he has a go for leader or whether he'll bide his time.


I do feel sorry for Corbyn. He has not had the media on his side at all and they have portrayed him as a senseless baboon yet he speaks a lot of sense. Corbyn (and Brexit) have also provided the Tories with a welcome distraction to not be answerable to why the country is turning to shit through austerity.

Umuna is too afraid that his personal secrets will come out. He's the Simon Cowell of politics. William Hague and Liam Fox at least found themselves some beards to walk down the aisle with them. Maybe when Umuna sorts that out he might make a run for leadership. Don't fancy his chances though.

Corbyn should've merged Labour with the Greens or if that was not possible, then at least poach them of their most talented figures, like Sian Berry or Amelia Womack. It would need someone with steel in their spine though, to purge the party of Red Tories. He's been leader for two years now and not a single one of the Blairite MPs has been forced out. That weakness means his leadership has ultimately been a failure.

[Edited 4/22/17 4:44am]

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #12 posted 04/22/17 6:56am

FunkOnTheOne

maplenpg said:

midnightmover said:

Man, this is gonna be a bloodbath! When Corbyn was first elected I said the only way it could turn out well would be if he replaced the Blairites with progressives and out of the influx of talent they could find a new leader to replace him. But it was obvious from the start he didn't have the stomach for the fight. He came out talking about "a kinder, gentler politics". Jesus!

Now Labour faces an election with not just a weak leader at the helm but also a parliamentary party that is not on the same page as him. The worst of all possible worlds.

Actually no, it's not the worst of all possible worlds. The worst would be having a soulless Red Tory at the helm since then we'd have to put up with all their dishonest fake opposition and they'd end up losing anyway. Who wants Tory Light when you can just have the real thing instead?

[Edited 4/22/17 0:38am]

I think less of a bloodbath - more of a borefest. Everyone seems to think that the result is a foregone conclusion and, I believe voter numbers will be low, really low. I have never been a Labour voter but I like Corbyn - I always think he's in the wrong party, he seems far more Green to me. Sadly I think he'll be gone following this and that another fake opposition will return to the helm. I've always said that Chuka Umunna will be Britain's first Black PM so we'll see whether he has a go for leader or whether he'll bide his time.


I do feel sorry for Corbyn. He has not had the media on his side at all and they have portrayed him as a senseless baboon yet he speaks a lot of sense. Corbyn (and Brexit) have also provided the Tories with a welcome distraction to not be answerable to why the country is turning to shit through austerity.

I pretty much agree with your comments there. Also think that Chuku looks like a possible leader. Where is our Bernie Sanders ?

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Reply #13 posted 04/22/17 8:56am

purplepoppy

maplenpg said:

DiminutiveRocker said:



Sounds like she needs a weekend as Mar-a-lago

She'd be more welcomed there than in Europe I suspect! biggrin

Thanks for the breakdown maplenpg. Informative.

May was in a clip aligning with Trump on the US network news yesterday, not just the cable fringes. She's pretty scary.

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #14 posted 04/22/17 9:19am

Pokeno4Money

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Corbyn agreeing to a snap election was a very poor decision, and one that will come back to bite him in the ass.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #15 posted 04/22/17 11:21am

maplenpg

Pokeno4Money said:

Corbyn agreeing to a snap election was a very poor decision, and one that will come back to bite him in the ass.

He didn't have much choice - damned if he agreed, damned if he disagreed neutral

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Reply #16 posted 04/22/17 12:08pm

maplenpg

FunkOnTheOne said:

maplenpg said:

I think less of a bloodbath - more of a borefest. Everyone seems to think that the result is a foregone conclusion and, I believe voter numbers will be low, really low. I have never been a Labour voter but I like Corbyn - I always think he's in the wrong party, he seems far more Green to me. Sadly I think he'll be gone following this and that another fake opposition will return to the helm. I've always said that Chuka Umunna will be Britain's first Black PM so we'll see whether he has a go for leader or whether he'll bide his time.


I do feel sorry for Corbyn. He has not had the media on his side at all and they have portrayed him as a senseless baboon yet he speaks a lot of sense. Corbyn (and Brexit) have also provided the Tories with a welcome distraction to not be answerable to why the country is turning to shit through austerity.

I pretty much agree with your comments there. Also think that Chuku looks like a possible leader. Where is our Bernie Sanders ?

I don't like Chuka one bit. He's an ex-lawyer, he knows how to persuade, he knows how to twist the rhetoric to his advantage. Unfortunately honest politics gets you nowhere in the modern world.

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Reply #17 posted 04/22/17 12:14pm

maplenpg

purplepoppy said:

maplenpg said:

She'd be more welcomed there than in Europe I suspect! biggrin

Thanks for the breakdown maplenpg. Informative.

May was in a clip aligning with Trump on the US network news yesterday, not just the cable fringes. She's pretty scary.

She wants to portray a no-nonsense image. She needs to in many ways as she is negotiating Brexit. Unfortunately, she seems to have forgotten to soften the hard image with her fellow people and so those who she is screwing over have had enough. We have already seen junior doctor strikes, expect more and more strikes if (when) she retains power.

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Reply #18 posted 04/22/17 3:17pm

damosuzuki

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maplenpg said:

Pokeno4Money said:

Corbyn agreeing to a snap election was a very poor decision, and one that will come back to bite him in the ass.

He didn't have much choice - damned if he agreed, damned if he disagreed neutral

does corbyn have any choice?

pardon my ignorance on this, but when the pm asks for the parliament to be dissolved & an election held, & has that granted, there's really no choice on the opposition's part, is there?

i know you have fixed election date laws now, but my understanding is that, like ours in canada, they can be bypassed if the pm gets the queen's go ahead, which is generally a formality.

[Edited 4/22/17 19:04pm]

"Nobody made a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little."

http://www.thelifeyoucansave.com/
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Reply #19 posted 04/22/17 3:38pm

purplepoppy

maplenpg said:

purplepoppy said:

Thanks for the breakdown maplenpg. Informative.

May was in a clip aligning with Trump on the US network news yesterday, not just the cable fringes. She's pretty scary.

She wants to portray a no-nonsense image. She needs to in many ways as she is negotiating Brexit. Unfortunately, she seems to have forgotten to soften the hard image with her fellow people and so those who she is screwing over have had enough. We have already seen junior doctor strikes, expect more and more strikes if (when) she retains power.

Health care is the new front. If we get sick and die, they don't have to pay out. More for them.

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #20 posted 04/22/17 11:21pm

maplenpg

damosuzuki said:

maplenpg said:

He didn't have much choice - damned if he agreed, damned if he disagreed neutral

does corbyn have any choice?

pardon my ignorance on this, but when the pm asks for the parliament to be dissolved & an election held, & has that granted, there's really no choice on the opposition's part, is there?

i know you have fixed election date laws now, but my understanding is that, like ours in canada, they can be bypassed if the pm gets the queen's go ahead, which is generally a formality.

[Edited 4/22/17 19:04pm]

In 2011 the fixed term parliament act was introduced that stated that if a PM wanted to call a snap general election, then it would have to be agreed by two-thirds of the MP's in the House of Commons. If Corbyn had chosen to he could have called for Labour MP's to oppose it. However this would have been a foolish move, not least because Labour MP's have gone against his wishes before and probably see this as an opportune moment to get rid of him, as he stands little chance of winning (then again, I thought Trump stood little chance). Scotland would never have opposed it as they make no secret of their Tory dislike so if Corbyn had opposed it, the tables would have been turned on him for obstructing what everyone else wanted.

And no.....it is not ignorance - I'm not totally understanding of Canada's political system so thank you for taking an interest in the British one. As far as I know the Queen has not been officially involved at all in this General Election process although undoubtedly May will have spoken to her about it.

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Reply #21 posted 04/22/17 11:38pm

maplenpg

purplepoppy said:

maplenpg said:

She wants to portray a no-nonsense image. She needs to in many ways as she is negotiating Brexit. Unfortunately, she seems to have forgotten to soften the hard image with her fellow people and so those who she is screwing over have had enough. We have already seen junior doctor strikes, expect more and more strikes if (when) she retains power.

Health care is the new front. If we get sick and die, they don't have to pay out. More for them.

Health care, education and housing. To add to your comment, when people get old and their relatives can't afford to give up work to look after them, they are forced to sell their property and spend their savings on care home fees. More for them. If the person happens to die before needing the care home then they tax the inheritence. More for them.



Education - By ensuring that education is focused on the brightest then we have a top level of people getting top jobs and paying top level tax. More for them. Those below them are not given the same opportunities and are forced into a circle of working endlessly in low pay work that ensures that keeps the cogs turning for those at the top. More for them. The ones that thry to better themselves by going to university etc.. find themselves burdened with 30 years of student debt worth around £40,000 before they even get a job (which they are free to increase the interest on at any time as has just happened). More for them.



Housing - I honestly don't know how the divide can even get narrower again. Those who do not own a home cannot save for a deposit as the rent prices are so high and those who own muliple homes are profiteering from the high rent prices allowing them to increase their portfolios further. The rich get richer. Sadly I think we are entering a generation who will be waiting for their parents/grandparents to die in order to inherit a property (that's if they haven't sold it to pay care home fees first).

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Reply #22 posted 04/23/17 10:53am

2freaky4church
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Educate to make people think for themselves. Not tell them how to think. That's what we do now.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #23 posted 04/23/17 12:16pm

purplepoppy

maplenpg said:

purplepoppy said:

Health care is the new front. If we get sick and die, they don't have to pay out. More for them.

Health care, education and housing. To add to your comment, when people get old and their relatives can't afford to give up work to look after them, they are forced to sell their property and spend their savings on care home fees. More for them. If the person happens to die before needing the care home then they tax the inheritence. More for them.



Education - By ensuring that education is focused on the brightest then we have a top level of people getting top jobs and paying top level tax. More for them. Those below them are not given the same opportunities and are forced into a circle of working endlessly in low pay work that ensures that keeps the cogs turning for those at the top. More for them. The ones that thry to better themselves by going to university etc.. find themselves burdened with 30 years of student debt worth around £40,000 before they even get a job (which they are free to increase the interest on at any time as has just happened). More for them.



Housing - I honestly don't know how the divide can even get narrower again. Those who do not own a home cannot save for a deposit as the rent prices are so high and those who own muliple homes are profiteering from the high rent prices allowing them to increase their portfolios further. The rich get richer. Sadly I think we are entering a generation who will be waiting for their parents/grandparents to die in order to inherit a property (that's if they haven't sold it to pay care home fees first).


Excellent post. So true here with Education and Housing as well. They want everything and they already have everything and f*ck everyone else.

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #24 posted 04/23/17 12:22pm

2freaky4church
1

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Don't forget about the French election. Hope the Commie wins.

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #25 posted 04/28/17 4:47pm

Cloudbuster

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Photo

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Reply #26 posted 04/28/17 8:21pm

SquirrelMeat

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I'm a floating voter and have voted for each of the main parties at one time or another. This time? I'm pretty sure I'll go Tory. I'm not blinkered by some left or right ideology. With Brexit and the general world problems, we need strong leadership. I can always vote them out in a GE next time, But the throught of any of the others leading Brexit negotiations that will effect a generation is scary.

I'll let he Tory's fight on my behalf on the global stage, then take a view as to what I want locally once they have secured my democratic right to do so outside of the EU.

.
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Reply #27 posted 04/28/17 11:59pm

midnightmover

SquirrelMeat said:

I'm a floating voter and have voted for each of the main parties at one time or another. This time? I'm pretty sure I'll go Tory. I'm not blinkered by some left or right ideology. With Brexit and the general world problems, we need strong leadership. I can always vote them out in a GE next time, But the throught of any of the others leading Brexit negotiations that will effect a generation is scary.

I'll let he Tory's fight on my behalf on the global stage, then take a view as to what I want locally once they have secured my democratic right to do so outside of the EU.

LOL, you're still pretending to be politically neutral? I thought you would've dropped that charade by now.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #28 posted 04/29/17 12:17am

maplenpg

SquirrelMeat said:

I'm a floating voter and have voted for each of the main parties at one time or another. This time? I'm pretty sure I'll go Tory. I'm not blinkered by some left or right ideology. With Brexit and the general world problems, we need strong leadership. I can always vote them out in a GE next time, But the throught of any of the others leading Brexit negotiations that will effect a generation is scary.

I'll let he Tory's fight on my behalf on the global stage, then take a view as to what I want locally once they have secured my democratic right to do so outside of the EU.

It's interesting because every person I've heard say they'll vote Tory says it is because of the Brexit negotiations and, for May, it is her trump card. However I have been directly impacted by the cuts that the Tory government have made and am seeing the very real impact on education. Believe me, it is frightening stuff. I fear for the next generations of northerners in another 5 years when Tories get in.

My best friend is a nurse and her stories of cut-backs in her hospital are truly mind-blowing. Our local hospital is due to be closed imminently because of cost-cuts meaning our nearest hospital is over 40 miles away. Old people round here are frightened that they won't survive because of teh distance.

My husband is self-employed and it seems like we will be hit with a tax hike which will almost certainly mean we have to downsize our (already rented) home. Oh - and we both drive diesel cars - which are essential in enabling us to get to work as their is NO public transport at all where we live. When you consider that we don't have a shop within 3 miles, and those that can't drive either have a six mile round bike trip or have no option but to do online shopping, it seems unfair to penalise us for owning essential cars that we were encouraged to buy not too long ago.

Frankly, having mostly been a Lib Dem voter previously, I feel I have no option but to vote for Corbyn even though I don't think he is a strong leader. I am past caring about Brexit or the global stage. I want schools and hospitals and the ability to own a home and some sort of future for my children. The Tories are robbing the country of the chance for anyone who do not have wealth to start with of making anything of themselves. I know I should care more about Brexit but I care more about my family and the direct impact of a Tory vote on their future.

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Reply #29 posted 04/29/17 12:49am

midnightmover

I wish Corbyn would be more outspoken about the stealth privatization of the NHS which is ramping up right now. The Tories (and their enablers in Labour and the Lib Dems) are out to destroy the NHS as we know it. Every year it is more private and every year the service is getting worse (which is used as an excuse for more privatization).

On another note, I hate to say this maple, but diesel cars are a menace. People are dying in record numbers because of pollution and diesel engines are a major part of the problem. Children who live in polluted areas are finding their lungs are not developing properly which will guarantee health problems for them in later life. It is unacceptable for us to do this to the younger generation.

“The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them, inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.”
- Thomas Jefferson
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