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Thread started 03/13/17 4:35pm

Dasein

Andre Iguodala & the "N" word


What's your take?

1) Should the NBA have fined Andre Iguodala for using the word [N word snip - luv4u] recently during an in-the-locker-room-interview?

2) Do Black Americans who use the same word amongst themselves err, and do they err
when asking others, primarily white people, not to?




*It is not my intention to cause an offense by typing out the word; I'm just working from the
vantage point that it is ultimately just a word.

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Reply #1 posted 03/14/17 8:19am

jjhunsecker

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Words have to be seen in context of their usage. And the fact of the matter is that a Black person using that word is a different context from a non-Black person using it. So it has to be examined on a case by case basis.

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Reply #2 posted 04/07/17 5:49am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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the problem is that the word means what it means, no matter how a person tries to recolor it.

Ni&&a is just a slang or 'broken english' way of saying the real thing Ni__er

For those who champion the use of Ni&&a as a term of endearment or that it is not the same as ni__er, cannot complain if someone of another ethnicity uses it, because it 'is not the same word'.

But the truth is it is the same word

1. So yes, they should have fined him for use of the word.

2. Yes they err when asking other not to

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #3 posted 04/07/17 6:35am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:

Words have to be seen in context of their usage. And the fact of the matter is that a Black person using that word is a different context from a non-Black person using it. So it has to be examined on a case by case basis.


Agree. The other day I heard some Latino teens using the 'n' word, and it did not seem to matter to them, if Blacks were around them, when using the term. Just because some Black youth and some older Blacks, use it among one another, it definitely does not make it 'ok' for someone outside their racial group to use it. Why? Because agree or not, it will never come across as being used in the same context, as some Blacks may use it as a 'so-called endearing term, among one another. The term being used by members outside the Black community will always come across as offensive/racist, because of the racist history connected to the term. Do I wish some Blacks would stop using the 'n' word altogether? Absolutely.

If a Black person said the term 'sp*c' or 'k*ke' in public around Latinos or Jews, you can bet members from both those groups would feel the sting of those terms. Just because I have heard, both those terms used by members of both those groups among themselves, does not mean it's ok for me to use it, knowing full well it's an offensive term.
[Edited 4/7/17 6:36am]
'Trump voters got Hoodwinked by Trump' popcorn coke
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Reply #4 posted 04/07/17 6:38am

RodeoSchro

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No one should say it, or any of its variations. Use of it does nothing except justify to actual racists their use of the word, which they pass on to their kids. Thus, use of the N word helps perpetuate racism.

Look at it this way - use of the N word is prevalent in rap music and the black youth culture, and has been for a good two decades now. Has use of the word made racial relations better? Nope. Has use of the word made it any less repulsive or offensive? Nope.

If we want to improve, we need to eliminate that word and all its variants from our collective vocabularies.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #5 posted 04/07/17 7:41am

EmmaMcG

Some black people find the word offensive, regardless of context. Some don't get offended unless the word is directed at them and meant as a slur. MOST black people I know would fall into the latter category. My ex, a black American, is an example of a guy who, though he doesn't use the word himself, would not be offended if he heard a white person say it while quoting a movie or a song, or just in general conversation. But there are others who genuinely feel offended by white people using the word, even when no offence is intended. So for that reason, I would never use it because firstly, I don't want to risk offending someone who would take my words to heart and secondly, I would never have cause to use the word anyway. I've met a lot of black people in my life and there isn't one of them that I would use that word to describe. Some of them have been really nice, others not so nice but none have warranted being called such a disrespectful term.
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Reply #6 posted 04/07/17 7:52am

peedub

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2elijah said:

If a Black person said the term 'sp*c' or 'k*ke' in public around Latinos or Jews, you can bet members from both those groups would feel the sting of those terms. Just because I have heard, both those terms used by members of both those groups among themselves, does not mean it's ok for me to use it, knowing full well it's an offensive term. [Edited 4/7/17 6:36am]



you've actually heard latinos and jews refer to each other using those pejorative colloquialisms? i haven't. and i'd be genuinely surprised if i did...it seems a phenomenon unique to black american culture from my experience.

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Reply #7 posted 04/07/17 8:26am

jjhunsecker

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peedub said:

2elijah said:

If a Black person said the term 'sp*c' or 'k*ke' in public around Latinos or Jews, you can bet members from both those groups would feel the sting of those terms. Just because I have heard, both those terms used by members of both those groups among themselves, does not mean it's ok for me to use it, knowing full well it's an offensive term. [Edited 4/7/17 6:36am]



you've actually heard latinos and jews refer to each other using those pejorative colloquialisms? i haven't. and i'd be genuinely surprised if i did...it seems a phenomenon unique to black american culture from my experience.

I went to HS with mainly Italian and Jewish kids. I heard the Italians using words like "wop" and "guinea" and "greaseball" all the time. While I don't recall Jewish kids saying "kike" or "hebe", they DID make jokes about Jewish stereotypes (like if a coin was on the floor, which Jewish kid would be the fastest to run an pick it up). NYC was a very politically incorrect place back then ! LOL

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Reply #8 posted 04/07/17 9:58am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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jjhunsecker said:

peedub said:



you've actually heard latinos and jews refer to each other using those pejorative colloquialisms? i haven't. and i'd be genuinely surprised if i did...it seems a phenomenon unique to black american culture from my experience.

I went to HS with mainly Italian and Jewish kids. I heard the Italians using words like "wop" and "guinea" and "greaseball" all the time. While I don't recall Jewish kids saying "kike" or "hebe", they DID make jokes about Jewish stereotypes (like if a coin was on the floor, which Jewish kid would be the fastest to run an pick it up). NYC was a very politically incorrect place back then ! LOL

I too have heard Italians refer to themselves and other italians in the same way as blacks use the N word. Not to the same degree of course. And I rarely hear in my current time.
And I think there is a similar undercurrent to why they use it.

I have and still hear Latinos use it.

Never a Jewish person, but maybe we haven't pierced deeper levels of their cultures. I've heard Heb though. But that is just short for Hebrew.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #9 posted 04/07/17 10:06am

peedub

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jjhunsecker said:

I went to HS with mainly Italian and Jewish kids. I heard the Italians using words like "wop" and "guinea" and "greaseball" all the time. While I don't recall Jewish kids saying "kike" or "hebe", they DID make jokes about Jewish stereotypes (like if a coin was on the floor, which Jewish kid would be the fastest to run an pick it up). NYC was a very politically incorrect place back then ! LOL



i've never lived around a concentrated population of italians, so can't really speak to that. i don't doubt the truth of it.

i have jewish family and there is a concentration of latino culture here (largely spanish speaking, so maybe i just miss it) and i can say unequivocally that i have never heard racial epithets tossed around betwixt and among them the way my black neighbors do. i do have gay friends and they're pretty liberal with shit like 'gay' and 'fag'. they seem pretty tolerant of casual use from non-gays; at least within the realm of conversation.


i've had to explain to my 10 yr old son what the n word means because he hears it constantly...on the playground, shouted across streets, blaring from car stereos; from our black neighbors...

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Reply #10 posted 04/07/17 12:08pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

Dasein said:


What's your take?

1) Should the NBA have fined Andre Iguodala for using the word [N word snip - luv4u] recently during an in-the-locker-room-interview?

2) Do Black Americans who use the same word amongst themselves err, and do they err
when asking others, primarily white people, not to?




*It is not my intention to cause an offense by typing out the word; I'm just working from the
vantage point that it is ultimately just a word.

there has to be responsibility with that word, if they use it. I'm totally against it.

But saying it in public, just shouldn't be. It causes confusion when people hear it.

But in our day and age people don't censor themselves and think 'they are not keeping it real' if they don't say it anywhere and everywhere no matter who is around.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #11 posted 04/07/17 1:29pm

jjhunsecker

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peedub said:



jjhunsecker said:



I went to HS with mainly Italian and Jewish kids. I heard the Italians using words like "wop" and "guinea" and "greaseball" all the time. While I don't recall Jewish kids saying "kike" or "hebe", they DID make jokes about Jewish stereotypes (like if a coin was on the floor, which Jewish kid would be the fastest to run an pick it up). NYC was a very politically incorrect place back then ! LOL





i've never lived around a concentrated population of italians, so can't really speak to that. i don't doubt the truth of it.

i have jewish family and there is a concentration of latino culture here (largely spanish speaking, so maybe i just miss it) and i can say unequivocally that i have never heard racial epithets tossed around betwixt and among them the way my black neighbors do. i do have gay friends and they're pretty liberal with shit like 'gay' and 'fag'. they seem pretty tolerant of casual use from non-gays; at least within the realm of conversation.



i've had to explain to my 10 yr old son what the n word means because he hears it constantly...on the playground, shouted across streets, blaring from car stereos; from our black neighbors...


I was one of the few black kids in my HS, so most of my close friends were Italian and Jewish kids, so I got to know their cultures pretty well . The Italians even had their own words, like "cugine", which is like a not too bright Italian corner boy (think of John Travolta in "Saturday Night Fever"), which could be used either as a term of endearment or an insult. The Jewish kids didn't use anti-Jewish slurs, but would joke about their stereotypes, such as "cheapness", calling other Jews out for behaving that way.
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Reply #12 posted 04/08/17 8:22am

Dasein

OldFriends4Sale said:

Dasein said:


What's your take?

1) Should the NBA have fined Andre Iguodala for using the word [N word snip - luv4u] recently during an in-the-locker-room-interview?

2) Do Black Americans who use the same word amongst themselves err, and do they err
when asking others, primarily white people, not to?




*It is not my intention to cause an offense by typing out the word; I'm just working from the
vantage point that it is ultimately just a word.

there has to be responsibility with that word, if they use it. I'm totally against it.

But saying it in public, just shouldn't be. It causes confusion when people hear it.

But in our day and age people don't censor themselves and think 'they are not keeping it real' if they don't say it anywhere and everywhere no matter who is around.


I agree: I use the word with my Black friends and try to be cognizant of the circumstances, context,
and the setting in which I use it.

But it pains me when I hear other Black Americans using it wantonly in public, especially teens or
young people in the presence of non-Black Americans.

The history of the word is certainly amusing: white people create a pejorative in an effort to dispar-
age and demean us; we ironically take the word and turn it into a term of endearment; it becomes
verboten for most white people to use who are then horrified at its existence while the word becomes
embraced by other non-white cultures while the people historically attached to it use it for plenary
sessions. It's no longer only a term of endearment, but something else too.

Ultimately, this is a white person's problem, and I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about it
because a part of the healing process, if one is to take place between Black and white America, is
the former accepting responsiblity for the horrors then and now of its Original Sin. In other words,
one way for white Americans to resolve their uneasiness regarding the "n word" is by apologizing but
then creating policies that no longer marginalize and oppress us.

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Reply #13 posted 04/08/17 8:44am

illimack

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As an over age 40 black person, I don't use the word and I hate how it's basically become part of pop culture. I work at a college. Everyone calls each other that nowadays. We have a large portion of students from other countries. I even hear them saying it to each other now. I used to try to educate or youngsters about using that word in public. I've given up. sad

**************************************************

Pull ya cell phone out and call yo next of kin...we 'bout to get funky......2,3 come on ya'll
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Reply #14 posted 04/08/17 8:51am

Dasein

illimack said:

As an over age 40 black person, I don't use the word and I hate how it's basically become part of pop culture. I work at a college. Everyone calls each other that nowadays. We have a large portion of students from other countries. I even hear them saying it to each other now. I used to try to educate or youngsters about using that word in public. I've given up. sad


Ugh.

I feel your pain, even though I will not stop using it (judiciously or conscious of context, setting).

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Reply #15 posted 04/08/17 11:43am

Horsefeathers

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I feel like this is sort of one of those things I don't get to have an opinion about (the appropriateness or not of black people using that word). I agree that context matters. It's not a word that I need to defend since I don't need it, meaning I don't buy any, "why can't I use it when they use it?" argument. At the same time, I don't know anyone black from my generation or older who uses or likes that word in any context. They generally seem to be pretty dismayed by it even when (or maybe especially, I don't know) they hear it from black youth.
Murica: at least it's not Sudan.
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Reply #16 posted 04/08/17 5:02pm

2elijah

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peedub said:



2elijah said:


If a Black person said the term 'sp*c' or 'k*ke' in public around Latinos or Jews, you can bet members from both those groups would feel the sting of those terms. Just because I have heard, both those terms used by members of both those groups among themselves, does not mean it's ok for me to use it, knowing full well it's an offensive term. [Edited 4/7/17 6:36am]



you've actually heard latinos and jews refer to each other using those pejorative colloquialisms? i haven't. and i'd be genuinely surprised if i did...it seems a phenomenon unique to black american culture from my experience.


Unfortunately..many Latino youth say it in public among their friends a lot. I especially here the high school kids using it. It is not uncommon in NYC hearing that term used mong youth of various, racial groups. Sad, but true. I hear them using it all the time, even when Black Americans are in their view. I remember being on the subway, and two Latino guys were conversing with one another in English, and it seemed like every 4th word, they used the 'n' word. I think using the excuse 'that Blacks use it', doesn't excuse anyone outside that group from using it. It's 2017, by now everyone should know the history of the term.

I will say though, that Black rappers who use it in their music, (not all do),knowing many non-Blacks purchase their music, with that term in it, should take full responsibility for using it.
[Edited 4/9/17 6:33am]
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Reply #17 posted 04/08/17 9:43pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Dasein said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

there has to be responsibility with that word, if they use it. I'm totally against it.

But saying it in public, just shouldn't be. It causes confusion when people hear it.

But in our day and age people don't censor themselves and think 'they are not keeping it real' if they don't say it anywhere and everywhere no matter who is around.


I agree: I use the word with my Black friends and try to be cognizant of the circumstances, context,
and the setting in which I use it.

But it pains me when I hear other Black Americans using it wantonly in public, especially teens or
young people in the presence of non-Black Americans.

The history of the word is certainly amusing: white people create a pejorative in an effort to dispar-
age and demean us; we ironically take the word and turn it into a term of endearment; it becomes
verboten for most white people to use who are then horrified at its existence while the word becomes
embraced by other non-white cultures while the people historically attached to it use it for plenary
sessions. It's no longer only a term of endearment, but something else too.

Ultimately, this is a white person's problem, and I'm not going to get too bent out of shape about it
because a part of the healing process, if one is to take place between Black and white America, is
the former accepting responsiblity for the horrors then and now of its Original Sin. In other words,
one way for white Americans to resolve their uneasiness regarding the "n word" is by apologizing but
then creating policies that no longer marginalize and oppress us.

But it is not just used as an 'endearment'. Black folk will use it in the same original form when they are mad at another, hate another, committing a crime against another, fighting one another. It is just a wacky situation. And as the human race goes in too many situations, people don't care to work on themselves enought to work it out.

.

I don't think it can be calle d a 'white person' problem either, which white people? all of them created it? are we talking about European ethnic groups too or just American, who is supposed to accept this responsibility? haven't many? haven't many who never took part in the actual problem who risked their lives to fight the problem be absolved? what is the actual apolizing process.

.

What I've seen in the world, that we live in, in the full history of mankind, that thing you are talking about will never happen in a complete picture. Do we get the African nations to apologize too for taking part in it and letting it happen? Do we go to the Arab countries and get some apology for their part in the slave trade, should England apologize to all the Irish that were enslaved in the slave trade as well.... but more importantly what difference will it make if people don't accept the 'apology' and work that many have done to make this world/nation better?
.
I know a lot of people waiting for apologies by family members coworker and people who used abused and disregarded them. 30yrs later they are still waiting. Some are stuck waiting for that apology, others looked at the one(s) that did them wrong and understood that they were broken and did not know to do other than hurt and they released it and moved on to wholeness. Thousands-millions of African Ameican descendant people have done the latter. And there are thousands-millions of poor white folk waiting for what America promised them.

.

But should the NBA have fined Andre Iguodala? yes
.
And I'm still looking for edited songs by the Roots & Common, so I can share with older black folk and people who only know of a mainstream shithop style of rap.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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