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Thread started 03/16/17 1:33pm

morningsong

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For the First Time, U.K. Allows Clinic to Proceed with "3-Parent" Baby Procedure

eek I'm feeling that "Exogensis" vibe.


Britain's fertility regulator on Thursday granted doctors the first UK license to create babies using a three-parent IVF technique designed to prevent inherited genetic diseases.

The license, granted to a team of doctors in Newcastle, northern England, means the first child created in Britain using the mitochondrial pronuclear transfer technique could be born before the end of this year.



https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/for-the-first-time-u-k-allows-clinic-to-proceed-with-3-parent-baby-procedure/

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #1 posted 03/16/17 3:58pm

XxAxX

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cloning. just wait until THAT is permitted.

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Reply #2 posted 03/16/17 4:29pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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i am fine with this and cloning... what will be interesting for 3 parent-baby or a clone what will that say if anything about the nature.

I Stand United with Manchester!
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Reply #3 posted 03/16/17 4:29pm

purplethunder3
121

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morningsong said:

eek I'm feeling that "Exogensis" vibe.


Britain's fertility regulator on Thursday granted doctors the first UK license to create babies using a three-parent IVF technique designed to prevent inherited genetic diseases.

The license, granted to a team of doctors in Newcastle, northern England, means the first child created in Britain using the mitochondrial pronuclear transfer technique could be born before the end of this year.



https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/for-the-first-time-u-k-allows-clinic-to-proceed-with-3-parent-baby-procedure/

What's that damned movie I saw with my son years ago--about prejudice against people born with "defects" and they had to "pass" as genetically perfect???

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #4 posted 03/16/17 4:55pm

morningsong

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purplethunder3121 said:

morningsong said:

eek I'm feeling that "Exogensis" vibe.


Britain's fertility regulator on Thursday granted doctors the first UK license to create babies using a three-parent IVF technique designed to prevent inherited genetic diseases.

The license, granted to a team of doctors in Newcastle, northern England, means the first child created in Britain using the mitochondrial pronuclear transfer technique could be born before the end of this year.



https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/for-the-first-time-u-k-allows-clinic-to-proceed-with-3-parent-baby-procedure/

What's that damned movie I saw with my son years ago--about prejudice against people born with "defects" and they had to "pass" as genetically perfect???


Gattaca

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #5 posted 03/16/17 5:00pm

EmmaMcG

OnlyNDaUsa said:

i am fine with this and cloning... what will be interesting for 3 parent-baby or a clone what will that say if anything about the nature.



The only problem I'd have with cloning is that the child wouldn't have a normal life. He/she would always be looked at as different. And that's assuming things go to plan. Then you'd have to take into account that there's a strong possibility that the child could be born with any number if defects. I'm not talking about webbed fingers or anything, I'm talking about birth defects exclusive to the cloning process that we don't even know about yet. There's no guarantee that it would work perfectly first time so you're taking a massive risk of creating a life just to put it through tremendous pain and suffering. It's not worth it.

In relation to the "3 parent" thing, if it's going to prevent genetic diseases being passed on, then it's a way for many people to have children who otherwise may not have that option. And that's a good thing.
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Reply #6 posted 03/16/17 5:03pm

morningsong

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XxAxX said:

cloning. just wait until THAT is permitted.



I think that's least desirable outside of somebody wanting to see if they can do it because of limited genetic selection. All that's "wrong" with the original host gets transferred to the new one, on a physical level at least.


I'm not saying I all ok with it though I'm curious, I'm just pointing out that this is what's happening in the world while we aren't looking.

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #7 posted 03/16/17 5:15pm

purplethunder3
121

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morningsong said:

XxAxX said:

cloning. just wait until THAT is permitted.



I think that's least desirable outside of somebody wanting to see if they can do it because of limited genetic selection. All that's "wrong" with the original host gets transferred to the new one, on a physical level at least.


I'm not saying I all ok with it though I'm curious, I'm just pointing out that this is what's happening in the world while we aren't looking.

The last I heard about cloning is that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. "Dolly" the sheep ended up dying before her "clone" mother with a bunch of problems. Cloning is like copying pages of an original book on a copy machine apparently--the more you copy it from the original, the more the quality degrades.

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #8 posted 03/16/17 5:25pm

morningsong

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purplethunder3121 said:

morningsong said:



I think that's least desirable outside of somebody wanting to see if they can do it because of limited genetic selection. All that's "wrong" with the original host gets transferred to the new one, on a physical level at least.


I'm not saying I all ok with it though I'm curious, I'm just pointing out that this is what's happening in the world while we aren't looking.

The last I heard about cloning is that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. "Dolly" the sheep ended up dying before her "clone" mother with a bunch of problems. Cloning is like copying pages of an original book on a copy machine apparently--the more you copy it from the original, the more the quality degrades.



I've heard that also, especially the like copying paper part. Genes can mutate just because, they don't "copy" exactly from one to another.

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #9 posted 03/16/17 5:38pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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EmmaMcG said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

i am fine with this and cloning... what will be interesting for 3 parent-baby or a clone what will that say if anything about the nature.

The only problem I'd have with cloning is that the child wouldn't have a normal life. He/she would always be looked at as different. And that's assuming things go to plan. Then you'd have to take into account that there's a strong possibility that the child could be born with any number if defects. I'm not talking about webbed fingers or anything, I'm talking about birth defects exclusive to the cloning process that we don't even know about yet. There's no guarantee that it would work perfectly first time so you're taking a massive risk of creating a life just to put it through tremendous pain and suffering. It's not worth it. In relation to the "3 parent" thing, if it's going to prevent genetic diseases being passed on, then it's a way for many people to have children who otherwise may not have that option. And that's a good thing.

wasn't the same thing said about test tube babies?

I Stand United with Manchester!
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Reply #10 posted 03/16/17 5:40pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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purplethunder3121 said:

morningsong said:



I think that's least desirable outside of somebody wanting to see if they can do it because of limited genetic selection. All that's "wrong" with the original host gets transferred to the new one, on a physical level at least.


I'm not saying I all ok with it though I'm curious, I'm just pointing out that this is what's happening in the world while we aren't looking.

The last I heard about cloning is that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. "Dolly" the sheep ended up dying before her "clone" mother with a bunch of problems. Cloning is like copying pages of an original book on a copy machine apparently--the more you copy it from the original, the more the quality degrades.

she did die young... something weird too. I forget...

I Stand United with Manchester!
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Reply #11 posted 03/16/17 5:51pm

XxAxX

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speaking of genetic testing and without wanting to get this thread kicked into P&R how do we feel about mandatory DNA testing by our employers and health care providers?:

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/03/11/your-dna-and-medical-info-arent-the-business-of-your-employer-or-the-government/

Your DNA and medical info aren’t the business of your employer or the government

posted at 11:31 am on March 11, 2017 by Jazz Shaw (continued at link)

With the advent of a new GOP controlled Congress and White House we were expecting an avalanche of new legislation (and executive actions) as the Republicans sought to get out to a running start. It’s important to get all you can done in the first year since the toxic atmosphere of the midterm elections will begin slowing any progress before you know it. But even for conservatives, this means it’s more important than ever to keep an eye on the raft of bills suddenly springing up and watching out for dangerous signs of overreach. One example of that appears to have cropped up in a new proposal which would give employers greatly ex...nformation, even going so far as mandatory DNA testing results, of workers who hope to have health coverage. (New York Times)

A bill in Congress could make it harder for workers to keep employers from getting access to their personal medical and genetic information and raise the financial penalties for those who opt out of workplace wellness programs.

House Republicans are proposing legislation aimed at making it easier for companies to gather genetic data from workers and their families, including their children, when they collect it as part of a voluntary wellness program.

The bill, the Preserving Employee Wellness Programs Act, introduced by Representative Virginia Foxx, a Republican from North Carolina and the chairwoman of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce, would also significantly increase the financial costs faced by someone who does not join a company wellness program.

[Edited 3/16/17 17:54pm]

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Reply #12 posted 03/16/17 5:54pm

XxAxX

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morningsong said:

purplethunder3121 said:

The last I heard about cloning is that it isn't all it's cracked up to be. "Dolly" the sheep ended up dying before her "clone" mother with a bunch of problems. Cloning is like copying pages of an original book on a copy machine apparently--the more you copy it from the original, the more the quality degrades.



I've heard that also, especially the like copying paper part. Genes can mutate just because, they don't "copy" exactly from one to another.


i'm not even sure it's possible to truly 'clone' a living organism, life isn't in stasis at any point, changes are always occurring. but there are outfits that will clone your pet for you when they pass on: http://myfriendagain.com/

and wouldn't that be a fine plot for a horror story??

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Reply #13 posted 03/16/17 5:54pm

purplethunder3
121

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XxAxX said:

speaking of genetic testing and without wanting to get this thread kicked into P&R how do we feel abouty mandatory DNA testing by our employers and health care providers?:

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/03/11/your-dna-and-medical-info-arent-the-business-of-your-employer-or-the-government/

Your DNA and medical info aren’t the business of your employer or the government

posted at 11:31 am on March 11, 2017 by Jazz Shaw (continued at link)

With the advent of a new GOP controlled Congress and White House we were expecting an avalanche of new legislation (and executive actions) as the Republicans sought to get out to a running start. It’s important to get all you can done in the first year since the toxic atmosphere of the midterm elections will begin slowing any progress before you know it. But even for conservatives, this means it’s more important than ever to keep an eye on the raft of bills suddenly springing up and watching out for dangerous signs of overreach. One example of that appears to have cropped up in a new proposal which would give employers greatly ex...nformation, even going so far as mandatory DNA testing results, of workers who hope to have health coverage. (New York Times)

A bill in Congress could make it harder for workers to keep employers from getting access to their personal medical and genetic information and raise the financial penalties for those who opt out of workplace wellness programs.

House Republicans are proposing legislation aimed at making it easier for companies to gather genetic data from workers and their families, including their children, when they collect it as part of a voluntary wellness program.

The bill, the Preserving Employee Wellness Programs Act, introduced by Representative Virginia Foxx, a Republican from North Carolina and the chairwoman of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce, would also significantly increase the financial costs faced by someone who does not join a company wellness program.

Wow, does that mean that prejudice against "pre-existing conditions" will make a come back? neutral

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #14 posted 03/16/17 5:58pm

purplethunder3
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Also, what's next? Testing someone to see if they will potentially commit crimes? Don't laugh--the issue was explored in my favorite TV show Law and Order. So were other genetic questions. In all three series.

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #15 posted 03/16/17 5:58pm

XxAxX

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purplethunder3121 said:

XxAxX said:

speaking of genetic testing and without wanting to get this thread kicked into P&R how do we feel abouty mandatory DNA testing by our employers and health care providers?:

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/03/11/your-dna-and-medical-info-arent-the-business-of-your-employer-or-the-government/

Your DNA and medical info aren’t the business of your employer or the government

posted at 11:31 am on March 11, 2017 by Jazz Shaw (continued at link)

With the advent of a new GOP controlled Congress and White House we were expecting an avalanche of new legislation (and executive actions) as the Republicans sought to get out to a running start. It’s important to get all you can done in the first year since the toxic atmosphere of the midterm elections will begin slowing any progress before you know it. But even for conservatives, this means it’s more important than ever to keep an eye on the raft of bills suddenly springing up and watching out for dangerous signs of overreach. One example of that appears to have cropped up in a new proposal which would give employers greatly ex...nformation, even going so far as mandatory DNA testing results, of workers who hope to have health coverage. (New York Times)

Wow, does that mean that prejudice against "pre-existing conditions" will make a come back? neutral



i'd guess so. it's like paying more for earthquake insurance when you live in CA. if you were tested, and found to be prone to MS or some such inherited tendency, i'd guess that ways would be found around laws protecting from discrimination in the health care industry.

some workplaces have employees undergo pscyhometric testing before employment to see if the job candidate's 'psychology' fits the job description. that smells like discrimination to me, since no test can truly accurately measure a human being's qualities, imo.:

https://www.psychometricinstitute.com.au/pre_employment_testing_practice.html

http://www.psychometricinstitute.com.au/matching_based_on_psychometric_tests.html

excerpted:

Matching candidates and jobs based on psychometric tests

More and more, organisations are using psychometric tests to aid the employee selection process, to help them get the ‘right’ person. The use of psychometric testing gives large and small organisations a competitive edge. Organisations want to know more about job seekers these days, wanting to discover their core competencies through the selection process. Being aware of these desirable core competencies is a good place for you to start, so that you can then better prepare for and practice psychometric tests such as aptitude tests and personality tests.

Certain interesting trends in organisation design highlight that the compatibility between employers and an organisation has become, and is becoming, more and more important. Employers want you to share similar characteristics as their organisation and they use psychometric tests to assess how you fit with the organisation, the ability to which the employer and employee will be able to meet each others needs. Organisations assess aspects such as general intelligence and personality traits through psychometric testing to provide an indication of person and organisation ‘fit’. It is advisable for you to develop job knowledge, and to practice psychometric tests to positively present your self as the ‘right’ person for the job. Practicing psychometric tests, among other things, increases your self-awareness, your understanding of your personality and values and can decreases [sic]your performance anxiety during psychometric testing.

[Edited 3/16/17 18:00pm]

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Reply #16 posted 03/16/17 6:00pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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XxAxX said:

morningsong said:



I've heard that also, especially the like copying paper part. Genes can mutate just because, they don't "copy" exactly from one to another.


i'm not even sure it's possible to truly 'clone' a living organism, life isn't in stasis at any point, changes are always occurring. but there are outfits that will clone your pet for you when they pass on: http://myfriendagain.com/

and wouldn't that be a fine plot for a horror story??

i wrote a 10 or so page idea for a story about what goes really bad following the first human clone...

I Stand United with Manchester!
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Reply #17 posted 03/16/17 6:02pm

XxAxX

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

XxAxX said:


i'm not even sure it's possible to truly 'clone' a living organism, life isn't in stasis at any point, changes are always occurring. but there are outfits that will clone your pet for you when they pass on: http://myfriendagain.com/

and wouldn't that be a fine plot for a horror story??

i wrote a 10 or so page idea for a story about what goes really bad following the first human clone...


cool. like, what if the process awakens some sort of atavistic tendency long since bred out of one's personality....

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Reply #18 posted 03/16/17 6:02pm

morningsong

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XxAxX said:

morningsong said:



I've heard that also, especially the like copying paper part. Genes can mutate just because, they don't "copy" exactly from one to another.


i'm not even sure it's possible to truly 'clone' a living organism, life isn't in stasis at any point, changes are always occurring. but there are outfits that will clone your pet for you when they pass on: http://myfriendagain.com/

and wouldn't that be a fine plot for a horror story??

They did that in a movie, don't remember the name at the moment, I'm thinking it had Arnold in it, but not sure.

Haven't they started cloning livestock for food? Those instances don't require genetic diversity especially when there's limited possibility of them breeding. It's done with plants where it's controlled, you got seedless all kinds of things, don't they just keep duplicating the plants?

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #19 posted 03/16/17 6:03pm

purplethunder3
121

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XxAxX said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Wow, does that mean that prejudice against "pre-existing conditions" will make a come back? neutral



i'd guess so. it's like paying more for earthquake insurance when you live in CA. if you were tested, and found to be prone to MS or some such inherited tendency, i'd guess that ways would be found around laws protecting from discrimination in the health care industry.

some workplaces have employees undergo pscyhometric testing before employment to see if the job candidate's 'psychology' fits the job description. that smells like discrimination to me, since no test can truly accurately measure a human being's qualities, imo.:

https://www.psychometricinstitute.com.au/pre_employment_testing_practice.html

http://www.psychometricinstitute.com.au/matching_based_on_psychometric_tests.html

excerpted:

Matching candidates and jobs based on psychometric tests

More and more, organisations are using psychometric tests to aid the employee selection process, to help them get the ‘right’ person. The use of psychometric testing gives large and small organisations a competitive edge. Organisations want to know more about job seekers these days, wanting to discover their core competencies through the selection process. Being aware of these desirable core competencies is a good place for you to start, so that you can then better prepare for and practice psychometric tests such as aptitude tests and personality tests.

Certain interesting trends in organisation design highlight that the compatibility between employers and an organisation has become, and is becoming, more and more important. Employers want you to share similar characteristics as their organisation and they use psychometric tests to assess how you fit with the organisation, the ability to which the employer and employee will be able to meet each others needs. Organisations assess aspects such as general intelligence and personality traits through psychometric testing to provide an indication of person and organisation ‘fit’. It is advisable for you to develop job knowledge, and to practice psychometric tests to positively present your self as the ‘right’ person for the job. Practicing psychometric tests, among other things, increases your self-awareness, your understanding of your personality and values and can decreases [sic]your performance anxiety during psychometric testing.

[Edited 3/16/17 18:00pm]

Well, that's a bitch for people who hid "pre-existing conditions" before and then it didn't matter...and now they can't take it back. Ridiculous. mad

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #20 posted 03/16/17 6:03pm

morningsong

avatar

purplethunder3121 said:

XxAxX said:

speaking of genetic testing and without wanting to get this thread kicked into P&R how do we feel abouty mandatory DNA testing by our employers and health care providers?:

http://hotair.com/archives/2017/03/11/your-dna-and-medical-info-arent-the-business-of-your-employer-or-the-government/

Your DNA and medical info aren’t the business of your employer or the government

posted at 11:31 am on March 11, 2017 by Jazz Shaw (continued at link)

With the advent of a new GOP controlled Congress and White House we were expecting an avalanche of new legislation (and executive actions) as the Republicans sought to get out to a running start. It’s important to get all you can done in the first year since the toxic atmosphere of the midterm elections will begin slowing any progress before you know it. But even for conservatives, this means it’s more important than ever to keep an eye on the raft of bills suddenly springing up and watching out for dangerous signs of overreach. One example of that appears to have cropped up in a new proposal which would give employers greatly ex...nformation, even going so far as mandatory DNA testing results, of workers who hope to have health coverage. (New York Times)

Wow, does that mean that prejudice against "pre-existing conditions" will make a come back? neutral



That's it exactly. Gotta keep those insurance premiums down.

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #21 posted 03/16/17 6:06pm

XxAxX

avatar

morningsong said:

XxAxX said:


i'm not even sure it's possible to truly 'clone' a living organism, life isn't in stasis at any point, changes are always occurring. but there are outfits that will clone your pet for you when they pass on: http://myfriendagain.com/

and wouldn't that be a fine plot for a horror story??

They did that in a movie, don't remember the name at the moment, I'm thinking it had Arnold in it, but not sure.

Haven't they started cloning livestock for food? Those instances don't require genetic diversity especially when there's limited possibility of them breeding. It's done with plants where it's controlled, you got seedless all kinds of things, don't they just keep duplicating the plants?



i think so. i read an article recently about how modern tomatoes differ seriously from so-called heirloom strains, that were more tasty and softer.

i also read that someone somewhere has grown 'meat' in a tank. just a lump of living tissue...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/30/tech/innovation/cultured-meat/

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Reply #22 posted 03/16/17 6:06pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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purplethunder3121 said:

Also, what's next? Testing someone to see if they will potentially commit crimes? Don't laugh--the issue was explored in my favorite TV show Law and Order. So were other genetic questions. In all three series.


or any other thing... I know they want to be able to let a cell split a few times and pick off a few cells for screening.. but gets into some murky water....

I Stand United with Manchester!
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Reply #23 posted 03/16/17 6:06pm

purplethunder3
121

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morningsong said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Wow, does that mean that prejudice against "pre-existing conditions" will make a come back? neutral



That's it exactly. Gotta keep those insurance premiums down.

But what happens to those whose information was "outed" when prejudice against pre-existing conditions was outlawed? Even if they don't have those "conditions" currently? Think about that one. neutral

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #24 posted 03/16/17 6:09pm

XxAxX

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it's a brave new world eek scary too

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Reply #25 posted 03/16/17 6:10pm

purplethunder3
121

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XxAxX said:

it's a brave new world eek scary too

Too brave for me... boxed

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #26 posted 03/16/17 6:12pm

morningsong

avatar

XxAxX said:

morningsong said:

They did that in a movie, don't remember the name at the moment, I'm thinking it had Arnold in it, but not sure.

Haven't they started cloning livestock for food? Those instances don't require genetic diversity especially when there's limited possibility of them breeding. It's done with plants where it's controlled, you got seedless all kinds of things, don't they just keep duplicating the plants?



i think so. i read an article recently about how modern tomatoes differ seriously from so-called heirloom strains, that were more tasty and softer.

i also read that someone somewhere has grown 'meat' in a tank. just a lump of living tissue...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/30/tech/innovation/cultured-meat/



You know as gross as that idea is to me now, I'd rather that then cloning animals for food. If there's got to be change in the future why not just skip the whole killing thing.

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #27 posted 03/16/17 6:12pm

XxAxX

avatar

purplethunder3121 said:

XxAxX said:

it's a brave new world eek scary too

Too brave for me... boxed


comfort what with cloning and genetic splicing and stem cell treeatments we might be the last generation who doesn't get to choose whether we die smile eek

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Reply #28 posted 03/16/17 6:13pm

XxAxX

avatar

morningsong said:

XxAxX said:



i think so. i read an article recently about how modern tomatoes differ seriously from so-called heirloom strains, that were more tasty and softer.

i also read that someone somewhere has grown 'meat' in a tank. just a lump of living tissue...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/30/tech/innovation/cultured-meat/



You know as gross as that idea is to me now, I'd rather that then cloning animals for food. If there's got to be change in the future why not just skip the whole killing thing.

agree. although, the question of does that lump of meat feel pain? experience life in any way? would arise. still, better that than killing animals the way we do

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Reply #29 posted 03/16/17 6:15pm

morningsong

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purplethunder3121 said:

XxAxX said:

it's a brave new world eek scary too

Too brave for me... boxed



I've really mulled it over and have decided that if humankind is going to move forward there will have to be changes and a lot of them I'm not going to like but many more will be far more beneficial in the long run. Every generation thinks it's generation is the best. Even in Solomon's time people that they were living in an ideal environment, I know I wouldn't want to give up my conviences to be living in that time of "purity".

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Forums > General Discussion > For the First Time, U.K. Allows Clinic to Proceed with "3-Parent" Baby Procedure